Jesus = good. Yahweh/Allah = evil. Trinity = evil?

[Greatest I am]

Jesus = good. Yahweh/Allah = evil. Trinity = evil?

In Chrestianity, which I think was the original Gnostic Christianity before Christianity took it over and changed the name to Christianity, Jesus was considered a good man archetype. Jesus’ God was also thought of as a good God.

Christianity and Islam created a demonstrably evil Yahweh/Allah with an immoral Original Sin concept, as well as other immoral doctrines, --- that the Jewish myth never had. Jews read an Original Virtue into Eden. Not a fall.

Christianity created and adopted the Trinity concept many years after Jesus died. Christianity kowtowed to Constantine and tied a reasonably good Jesus to a demonstrably evil Yahweh/Allah.

Was it a good idea to tie a good Jesus to an evil Yahweh/Allah?

Regards
DL   

[Greatest I am]

Marcionism is so 2nd century, dude.

Indeed, but morality seems to be timeless.

What century does adoring a genocidal son murdering prick of a God belong to?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Islam has no original sin, God forgives Adam and Eve

Jews do not have an Original Sin concept either.

They saw Eden as where man was elevated. To them, Eden is a coming of age yarn.

No one seems to wonder why A & E, if forgiven or elevated, did not eat of the tree of life.

Can you link to the appropriate Qur'anic text for your statement and perhaps any text that might answer that question?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Islam has no original sin, God forgives Adam and Eve

Jews do not have an Original Sin concept either.

They saw Eden as where man was elevated. To them, Eden is a coming of age yarn.

No one seems to wonder why A & E, if forgiven or elevated, did not eat of the tree of life.

Can you link to the appropriate Qur'anic text for your statement and perhaps any text that might answer that question?

Regards
DL

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that Adam was put into a deep sleep and
nowhere in the Bible does it say that he woke up. Could that be why A&E did
not eat of the tree of life? That they needed an awakening?

That was before they ate so they had to have woken up or were sleep walking and if that was the case then God is quite the prick for punishing them.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Original Sin isn't mentioned in the Bible either.

2:37 in the Qur'an says they were forgiven. There may be other references.

The Qur'an generally does not re-tell what was already told in the Bible, just refer to it and comment on it. Mohammed wrote the Qur'an to be a supplement to the Bible.

If there was no Original Sin in Eden to Muslims, the Jewish view, what were A & E forgiven for in the Qur'an?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

"Original Sin" is usually understood as the idea that the first sin somehow was hereditary and passed on to all other humans throughout all generations. That is the idea that Judaism, Islam, Early Christianity (both Traditional/Non-Gnostic and Gnostic) and some Modern Christianity, rejects.

The Qur'an says they weren't supposed to eat from that tree, they ate of it, they repented, God taught them how to repent, and God forgave them. You can read the passage yourself, it's only a few verses.

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another translation

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Thanks for this.

" But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were;"

It seems that Muslims, like Christians, think that mankind would be happier in ignorant bliss and with their moral eyes closed that being, as God says, one of us.

Especially weird that given this passage.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

How they get becoming more like God a sin, they have yet to explain.

Do you see Eden as our elevation the way the Jews did or do you prefer the sin or fall version?

Further, since Satan was given the power to deceive the whole world, does either Christianity or Islam explain why God put Satan right there with his first human children?

If they cannot, then we must assume that God wanted mankind to be more like Gods and what they see as a fall was really A & E doing exactly what God wanted. 

Hence the better Jewish view of our elevation and graduation day for the kids.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

"Original Sin" is usually understood as the idea that the first sin somehow was hereditary and passed on to all other humans throughout all generations. That is the idea that Judaism, Islam, Early Christianity (both Traditional/Non-Gnostic and Gnostic) and some Modern Christianity, rejects.

I do not agree with your Gnostic Christian view here.

The only salvation, as far as I know, that we seek is being saved from poor think and we count on ourselves for that.

I am willing to see what made you think otherwise though. I might have missed something in my reading up on Gnostic Christianity before adopting it as my ideology.

Regards
DL   

[Greatest I am]

What about the other member of the Trinity?

Harmless and thus ignored.

I just do not like Jesus being thought of as his prick of a father.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Christianity created and adopted the Trinity concept many years after Jesus died. Christianity kowtowed to Constantine and tied a reasonably good Jesus to a demonstrably evil Yahweh/Allah.

This is incorrect.  The New Testament upholds the Trinity doctrine and denounces Gnosticism roundly.  It clearly says that the Father, Jesus, and the Spirit are all God, but there is only one God.  As for Gnosticism, 1 John 4:2 and 2 John 7 both condemn it, as well as possibly Christ himself when He denounces the Nicolaitans in Revelation 2:6 and 2:14-15.

It was Augustine, not Constantine, who reintroduced Gnosticism into the church but managed to get it accepted as Scriptural doctrine in the form of Original Sin.

Sure the winners of the God wars will say they were correct in using their Inquisition against a peaceful people.

You seem to think that murder is more moral than sound moral arguments.

You are true to your foul religion of war. No wonder you promote a genocidal son murdering God.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

It may the official doctrine of most Christians, but how many of the members actually still believe in the Trinity? I never did, nor will I ever. God in three persons is not consistent with the idea of One God (in which I don't believe, by the way), IMO. I am also not aware that it can be found in the Hebrew (aka Old) Testament, which it would be if it were a basic truth.

In my opinion, the strongest case for the Trinity being present in the OT has to be in Genesis 18 when God visits Abraham near Marne shortly before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. Personally, I think the three visitors are a remnant of the polytheistic past that managed to not get totally expunged when the monotheistic editors of the Pentateuch were writing down the Hebrew mythos for their use, but I can see it being a case for the Trinity.

Good Lord.

Have you not read the ancients at all?

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

How do you tell a literalist fool that he should not read a myth literally?

Regards
DL