EU creates mega-army
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Author Topic: EU creates mega-army  (Read 2212 times)
NewYorkExpress
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« on: November 13, 2017, 07:56:52 PM »

http://www.businessinsider.com/eu-countries-agree-mega-army-2017-11

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Should their first move be an invasion of Russia?
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Citizen (The) Doctor
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 07:59:52 PM »

multipolarity is such a great idea
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TheSaint250
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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 08:11:36 PM »

Should their first move be an invasion of Russia?

what no

I'd prefer if we didn't have another world war.

Besides, isn't this what NATO is for? Shouldn't the EU be more concerned with economy?
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Zinneke
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 08:32:45 PM »

Should their first move be an invasion of Russia?

what no

I'd prefer if we didn't have another world war.

Besides, isn't this what NATO is for? Shouldn't the EU be more concerned with economy?

https://www.nato.int/cps/ic/natohq/official_texts_133163.htm

EU had, realistically, only two states capable of long-term deployment offensive and subsequent counter-insurgency in a theatre of war. France and the UK. They've just lost one. Really CSDP is what the American think-tanks have been wanting all along : the EU MSs taking defence seriously.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 09:05:26 PM »

Good to see Germany taking a lead role in these affairs. France is a bit more iffy, considering the broad support in that country for Mélenchon and Le Pen.

That said, will Ukraine ever be allowed to join the E. U.? Or will Russian intimidation continue to prevent it?
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TheSaint250
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 11:22:34 PM »

Should their first move be an invasion of Russia?

what no

I'd prefer if we didn't have another world war.

Besides, isn't this what NATO is for? Shouldn't the EU be more concerned with economy?

https://www.nato.int/cps/ic/natohq/official_texts_133163.htm

EU had, realistically, only two states capable of long-term deployment offensive and subsequent counter-insurgency in a theatre of war. France and the UK. They've just lost one. Really CSDP is what the American think-tanks have been wanting all along : the EU MSs taking defence seriously.

Ah ok. Thank you!

I'm still somewhat opposed to this and would prefer a more economic-based EU, but I can see why one would like an EU-based army.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 11:34:08 PM »

Should their first move be an invasion of Russia?

what no

I'd prefer if we didn't have another world war.

Besides, isn't this what NATO is for? Shouldn't the EU be more concerned with economy?

It would be suicide anyway. To make up for their perpetually lackluster military pro-USSR, Russia has made it clear that they will use nuclear weapons if met with overwhelming conventional forces. I would think a large military group blowing past their border would count Tongue
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TheSaint250
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« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 11:39:50 PM »

Should their first move be an invasion of Russia?

what no

I'd prefer if we didn't have another world war.

Besides, isn't this what NATO is for? Shouldn't the EU be more concerned with economy?

It would be suicide anyway. To make up for their perpetually lackluster military pro-USSR, Russia has made it clear that they will use nuclear weapons if met with overwhelming conventional forces. I would think a large military group blowing past their border would count Tongue

This.

We're not in Napoleon's day anymore where you could just say "f*** it" and invade the next country without massive damage worldwide.
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Tirnam
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 05:36:57 AM »

Another proof that Brexit is one of the best thing that ever happened to the EU.
We are finally moving forward without the UK blocking any further political integration.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 06:01:46 AM »

Very, very good. Macron is doing well.
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 06:24:11 AM »

Should their first move be an invasion of Russia?

what no

I'd prefer if we didn't have another world war.

Besides, isn't this what NATO is for? Shouldn't the EU be more concerned with economy?

It would be suicide anyway. To make up for their perpetually lackluster military pro-USSR, Russia has made it clear that they will use nuclear weapons if met with overwhelming conventional forces. I would think a large military group blowing past their border would count Tongue

Speaking of Russia's conventional arms, it's really a bizarre topic. On one hand they have a sophisticated military industry, especially for external markets, but at the same time they don't manufacture some essential spare parts needed for maintenance of their own arms. They were operating under "lol, why manufacture if we can just buy it?", and then sanctions came...
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dead0man
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2017, 08:21:36 AM »

you guys got this? again?  We (the US) can leave now?  Germany won't be invading anybody in twenty five years?  We're getting tired of keeping you dumb whiteys from killing each other, will you finally be able to control yourselves?
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mvd10
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 08:51:44 AM »

Another proof that Brexit is one of the best thing that ever happened to the EU.
We are finally moving forward without the UK blocking any further political integration.

We've also lost a strongly pro-market and pro-trade country Cry.

I've grown much more supportive of the EU overall (I never supported a Nexit or something like that, but I used to be pretty negative about the EU), so if this causes European armed forces to become more efficient I strongly support it. NATO remains our primary safeguard (and should be expanded), but liberal democracies working together on defence matters is a good thing.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 12:01:01 PM »
« Edited: November 14, 2017, 12:02:48 PM by Come grasp the mighty avatar of our admin »

Since the whole Crimean business I've grown more supportive towards NATO and don't want this to go. But I've also been long in favor of integrated European military defense. Aside of my European federalist views, the two are not mutually exclusive. To the contrary, such a force would add a solid second pillar to the Atlantic defense.


Also the fact PiS is currently pretty much destroying the Polish military makes me even more in favor of this project.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 12:17:19 PM »

I've grown much more supportive of the EU overall (I never supported a Nexit or something like that, but I used to be pretty negative about the EU), so if this causes European armed forces to become more efficient I strongly support it. NATO remains our primary safeguard (and should be expanded), but liberal democracies working together on defence matters is a good thing.
Exactly. This is a very good idea.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 12:31:02 PM »

Austria (= neutral) only joined this thing for training and knowledge reasons (and probably will never fully join or engage in any battles/maneuvers).

Plus, it would be better if the EU managed to set up a common, effective border patrol agency that keeps the economic migrants in Africa and the Middle-East - where they belong.

Other than that, the FPÖ wants to increase military spending to 1% of GDP here in the coalition talks (currently, we are spending just 0.65% of the GDP on the military - one of the lowest amounts on the planet).
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Hnv1
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 02:03:26 PM »

Good, it's about time the gap between the US and Russia be filled.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2017, 02:29:55 PM »

you guys got this? again?  We (the US) can leave now?  Germany won't be invading anybody in twenty five years?  We're getting tired of keeping you dumb whiteys from killing each other, will you finally be able to control yourselves?

Well, the EU is the 4th Reich so the US have failed I guess /s
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CrabCake
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2017, 02:49:06 PM »

It would make sense to unify the Coast Guard, at the very least.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2017, 06:46:23 PM »

Nice article

http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_eu_defence_efforts_miss_the_open_goal_again
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mvd10
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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2017, 06:00:22 AM »

Well, that just gave Eurosceptics a campaign point to make.

Why? Because it makes it harder for Russia to invade us Tongue?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2017, 05:27:24 PM »

Another proof that Brexit is one of the best thing that ever happened to the EU.
We are finally moving forward without the UK blocking any further political integration.

Yup.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2017, 05:39:03 PM »

Another proof that Brexit is one of the best thing that ever happened to the EU.
We are finally moving forward without the UK blocking any further political integration.

Yup.

Fairly sure this was being reported as in the works before Brexit - I think Leave even made hey with it during the campaign.

You'd also have to assume there were more obstacles than the UK if it's ended up a damp squib, as the link above appears to suggest.
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Zinneke
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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2017, 05:59:36 AM »
« Edited: November 18, 2017, 06:43:59 AM by coloniac »

Another proof that Brexit is one of the best thing that ever happened to the EU.
We are finally moving forward without the UK blocking any further political integration.

Yup.

Fairly sure this was being reported as in the works before Brexit - I think Leave even made hey with it during the campaign.

You'd also have to assume there were more obstacles than the UK if it's ended up a damp squib, as the link above appears to suggest.

The UK was always a big obstacle.

EDIT : except for a brief period under Blair. Then Iraq happened.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2017, 10:00:15 AM »

Another proof that Brexit is one of the best thing that ever happened to the EU.
We are finally moving forward without the UK blocking any further political integration.

Yup.

Fairly sure this was being reported as in the works before Brexit - I think Leave even made hey with it during the campaign.

You'd also have to assume there were more obstacles than the UK if it's ended up a damp squib, as the link above appears to suggest.

The UK was always a big obstacle.

EDIT : except for a brief period under Blair. Then Iraq happened.

Of course - my point was the article you posted suggests by the nature of its dilution that the UK wasn't the only obstacle and it won't be plain sailing to federalism now we've left.
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