Al Franken accused of sexual harassment

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Franken has a record of doing this kind of thing. Am I shocked? No. Do I think he deserves a chance a redemption? Yes. Does he absolutely have to resign if he makes up for his past sins through good work? No way in h**l. Should he step up and take a leadership role using his incumbency as US Senator, to make up for it? Absolutely. Should he be censured? It's a given, given what he has done in the past.

[Ban my account ffs!]

In cases where people use their power to abuse those with less power for simple dominance and sexual gratification, it is pretty cut and dry.

But so many assaults are committed were the power dynamic is much more convoluted and the relationship complicated. These are the types where the legal system and most certainly the public at large fail the victims.  The existence of mandatory reporting laws prevent therapists from helping the victim beyond the most basic anonymous details.  An unintended negative consequence of a law with the best of intentions.  How do we address this?

I actually don't think we disagree much.  We focus on different parts of the problem because we approach it very differently.  And no, it is not unreasonable to expect our elected officials to not sexually harass others.  I also think if we go after this with too much anger and we look for vengeance, we will only help the toxic culture of silence and secrecy that has kept the cycle going.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Al Franken needs to resign. Normally, it might make sense to hold a formal ethics investigation. But when the democrats first priority should be defeating Roy Moore in Alabunga, they must stand on a moral high ground, and thus force Franken out to take a stand against harassment, even if they would not normally do so for these actions. If they do not, they are enabling the victory of Moore.

[Antonio the Sixth]

He should resign, and every Democrat with a conscience should demand that he does.

[Blackacre]

There's a new allegation? Whelp. Yeah, Franken should probably leave now before a third one comes out.

[Brittain33]

I'd say there's about 0% chance it's "only" 2.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'd say there's about 0% chance it's "only" 2.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

Doesn't Franken realize that if he doesn't resign, he's probably going to lose in either the primary or the general?

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

You nuclear Elmo fans are a tad quiet here.

[Mr. Morden]

Doesn't Franken realize that if he doesn't resign, he's probably going to lose in either the primary or the general?

Who says he's planning to run again?  He might just serve out the rest of his term, which ends in 2020.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Doesn't Franken realize that if he doesn't resign, he's probably going to lose in either the primary or the general?

Who says he's planning to run again?  He might just serve out the rest of his term, which ends in 2020.

A plum job like that with an easy peezy win.........why wouldn't he run again?

[Mr. Morden]

Doesn't Franken realize that if he doesn't resign, he's probably going to lose in either the primary or the general?

Who says he's planning to run again?  He might just serve out the rest of his term, which ends in 2020.

A plum job like that with an easy peezy win.........why wouldn't he run again?

He wouldn't run again if he thinks the sexual harassment accusations are going to complicate his reelection.  Whether that is indeed a concern depends on what happens next.

[MAINEiac4434]

Get. Him. Out. Now.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

I'd say there's about 0% chance it's "only" 2.

If you had to guess right now, how many public accusers do you think there will be? 

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

In cases where people use their power to abuse those with less power for simple dominance and sexual gratification, it is pretty cut and dry.

But so many assaults are committed were the power dynamic is much more convoluted and the relationship complicated. These are the types where the legal system and most certainly the public at large fail the victims.  The existence of mandatory reporting laws prevent therapists from helping the victim beyond the most basic anonymous details.  An unintended negative consequence of a law with the best of intentions.  How do we address this?

I actually don't think we disagree much.  We focus on different parts of the problem because we approach it very differently.  And no, it is not unreasonable to expect our elected officials to not sexually harass others.  I also think if we go after this with too much anger and we look for vengeance, we will only help the toxic culture of silence and secrecy that has kept the cycle going.

I think you're probably that right that we're focusing on different aspects of the problem more than anything else.  I also agree that this issue can often be a lot more complex than most people appreciate in terms of the underlying causes of sexually abusive behavior.  Even with some of the worst cases we've recently seen such as the Kevin Spacey allegations, it's since come out that his father was a child molester who (at the very least) molested one of Spacey's brothers.  So that cycle of abuse reared its ugly head once again right there.  However, while this provides us with at least some semblance of an explanation, it's obviously not an excuse either.  I think one thing that really contributes to the culture of silence is the widespread perception that the abusers can usually get away with it and/or that every bad thing a victim might've ever done will become the story everyone focuses on.

[BudgieForce]

You nuclear Elmo fans are a tad quiet here.

We're saving those for when Kushner gets indicted.

[elcorazon]

I think Franken should resign (and I've said so all along) BUT i  do think that the problems with the allegations are notable. The biggest issue is that it is clear that the culture of the group they were involved in involved lots of risque humor. Within that context, it seems Franken's dumb photo was in that same spirit. The reason I think Franken should be gone is that the most serious allegations involved the skit with the kiss. Now it's possible she's a liar, but I don't think we should doubt her. And to be clear, the photo is more problematic given the kiss. If no unwanted kissing had occurred, I doubt she would've been so upset about the photo. I kinda think (although I admit I'm speculating here) that Leann Tweeden's role in the group was at leastly partly her sexuality. That's likely why you see the photos of her grabbing ass and bumping and grinding on stage. It's quite likely that was part of the act. The Franken photo was not onstage so it doesn't seem necessary or helpful to their act.

Anyway, it's all unfortunate and I'm not sure how much of a predator Franken is, but there really isn't much evidence he's anywhere near any of the others who've been alleged to have engaged in these activities, certainly nowhere near the likes of Weinstein, Moore, Glenn Thrush or Donald Trump.

[King of Kensington]

And another...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/11/20/second-woman-accuses-sen-franken-sexual-misconduct-report/880222001/

[BudgieForce]

Seems like this second allegation got alot less traction then the first. Probably because most adults have touched a butt in some capacity or another.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'd say there's about 0% chance it's "only" 2.

If you had to guess right now, how many public accusers do you think there will be? 

Blind guess? 9. But this is very uncharted territory, so I am very likely to get the number wrong.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Seems like this second allegation got alot less traction then the first. Probably because most adults have touched a butt in some capacity or another.

Maybe because Franken's behavior while coarse and sexist, isn't predatory or violent.
Both incidents occurred in public places with multiple witnesses. Sex criminals almost always act when they are alone with their victims.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

People on dailykos are disputing the validity of the accusations.

Honestly, I am starting to believe the accusations are false after reading about the situation there.

[Classic Conservative]

People on dailykos are disputing the validity of the accusations.

Honestly, I am starting to believe the accusations are false after reading about the situation there.

But those Roy Moore accusations...

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/20/1716849/-I-Unapologetically-Stand-With-Senator-Franken-Do-NOT-Believe-Either-Accuser

[BudgieForce]

People on dailykos are disputing the validity of the accusations.

Honestly, I am starting to believe the accusations are false after reading about the situation there.

But those Roy Moore accusations...

If it makes you feel better about supporting a pedophile with little respect for the law.