Al Franken accused of sexual harassment

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Give him credit for saying sorry so quickly. This is a sign of personal growth... Most people accused of stuff like this outright deny what happened, or they claim it was consensual, or they turn to obfuscation or victim blaming etc. Franken took a different course. We should value this fact. Old habits can die hard, and he is working on it. He's taking notes.
Franken was also once very deeply immersed in the entertainment industry, which has a problem with sexual misconduct. There is very little surprise in this, once you think about it, given his personal record. What we should give Franken is benefit of the doubt. This was him almost 12 years ago. Perhaps he hasn't really confronted his past. 2017 Franken is at heart a good person imo, so he can look at his past and make up for it, make amends, etc. His actions today seem pretty good already. No resignation is necessary.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

This is disgusting. I'm especially disturbed that his actions could have encouraged more of that kind of behavior in the military.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

It's deeply unfair to men of good character and/or people who are redeeming themselves that they resign just because of Roy Moore.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Kirsten Gillibrand reacts:

Seung Min Kim @seungminkim
NEW: Gillibrand tells reporters the allegations against Franken are “deeply concerning,” says she believes the woman who accused him

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/931204194605895680

I mean, there’s a photo? You’d have to be extremely delusional to not believe her.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

It's deeply unfair to men of good character and/or people who are redeeming themselves that they resign just because of Roy Moore.

If you’re a sexual harasser you’re not a man of good character.

Franken has been fighting for working families in the US Senate for 8 years, and shows signs of cleaning up his act. He deserves a chance.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

So he's not going to resign. Sigh.

FF!

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

It's deeply unfair to men of good character and/or people who are redeeming themselves that they resign just because of Roy Moore.

If you’re a sexual harasser you’re not a man of good character.

Franken has been fighting for working families in the US Senate for 8 years, and shows signs of cleaning up his act. He deserves a chance.

Roy Moore has been fighting for moral values in the Alabama supreme Court for years. He hasn't harassed women in a long time.

This is basically the point you're making.

His attitude has markedly differed from Moore's. I can't imagine Moore being this apologetic.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

what a perv. oh well democrats dug their own grave when they form a coalition with rabid feminists lol

Women who desire to not be groped = rabid feminists.

You forgot to put the words 'rapid feminists' in full caps and bold.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

It's deeply unfair to men of good character and/or people who are redeeming themselves that they resign just because of Roy Moore.

If you’re a sexual harasser you’re not a man of good character.

Franken has been fighting for working families in the US Senate for 8 years, and shows signs of cleaning up his act. He deserves a chance.

Was this post written by an aide?

Lol, good joke.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

^^^ honestly at this point throwing out half of congress is a good thing.

Earnest congresscritters trying to redeem themselves and owe up to past mistakes shouldn't be sacrificed at the alter of wrong-headed one-size-fits-all punishment.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

When's the ethics investigation going to start?

It seems to me like the ethics investigation IS creating a standard and establishing gradations on accusations of sexual misconduct. The goal of the investigation should be to see if Franken has a history of this type of behavior or if this was the only time in his life he's done this. If it's the former, he has to go. If it's the latter, given how solid his apology was and the mitigating factors that have come out since, I think it's fair to say he should serve out the remainder of his term.

When the next Senator gets accused, this is the process they should go through. What Franken did was really bad, but nowhere near as bad as what Roy Moore and Donald Trump did. So maybe there was a method behind the madness with the ethics investigation idea

I don't really care about the frequency he did this kind of behavior, insofar as it might theoretically effect the question of whether he should leave office. As far as that question is concerned, I care only about how he is making up for it in present day. That is what really matters. And he has so far aced things.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

As I said in another thread, it's not that uncommon for women to grab ass. Certainly, men are responsible for more unwanted groping than women, but it's not such a great idea to use this as an excuse to beat up on men for being so awful.

We agree that it's not uncommon, but it is awful. This is what feminists mean when they talk about rape culture. It is ingrained in our culture that there is a spectrum of vaguely acceptable nonconsensual sexual violations and a toxic belief system around that. It needs to stop.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Franken has a record of doing this kind of thing. Am I shocked? No. Do I think he deserves a chance a redemption? Yes. Does he absolutely have to resign if he makes up for his past sins through good work? No way in h**l. Should he step up and take a leadership role using his incumbency as US Senator, to make up for it? Absolutely. Should he be censured? It's a given, given what he has done in the past.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'd say there's about 0% chance it's "only" 2.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'd say there's about 0% chance it's "only" 2.

If you had to guess right now, how many public accusers do you think there will be? 

Blind guess? 9. But this is very uncharted territory, so I am very likely to get the number wrong.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I'm disgusted at all the people defending Al Franken. There's even photo proof!

He has done some bad things. He also called for an Ethics Committee investigation on himself. He deserves a shot at redemption, period.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I love people who claim dems are so inconsistent for being even slightly openminded about Franken, who has had a couple of fairly minor allegations, while they support a President who not only has nearly 20 accusers, he also has basically admitted exactly what he is accused of, and in some cases even worse. AND, most seem to be supporting the child molester down in Alabama. Amazing.

For the record, I think Franken should resign, but I don't feel those who disagree are some kind of crazies or are somehow being wildly inconsistent.

I think Franken ought to make himself an example for others by staying in office, fighting for justice for those harassed and sexually assaulted using that senate seat, and doing penance for his past. He shouldn't resign.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I love people who claim dems are so inconsistent for being even slightly openminded about Franken, who has had a couple of fairly minor allegations, while they support a President who not only has nearly 20 accusers, he also has basically admitted exactly what he is accused of, and in some cases even worse. AND, most seem to be supporting the child molester down in Alabama. Amazing.

For the record, I think Franken should resign, but I don't feel those who disagree are some kind of crazies or are somehow being wildly inconsistent.

I think Franken ought to make himself an example for others by staying in office, fighting for justice for those harassed and sexually assaulted using that senate seat, and doing penance for his past. He shouldn't resign.

The only way he can set a good example is by resigning.

That's not true.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I love people who claim dems are so inconsistent for being even slightly openminded about Franken, who has had a couple of fairly minor allegations, while they support a President who not only has nearly 20 accusers, he also has basically admitted exactly what he is accused of, and in some cases even worse. AND, most seem to be supporting the child molester down in Alabama. Amazing.

For the record, I think Franken should resign, but I don't feel those who disagree are some kind of crazies or are somehow being wildly inconsistent.

I think Franken ought to make himself an example for others by staying in office, fighting for justice for those harassed and sexually assaulted using that senate seat, and doing penance for his past. He shouldn't resign.

The only way he can set a good example is by resigning.

That's not true.

Given the environment in which we now find ourselves, I don't think the penance you describe can be achieved. Forgiveness must be earned, but that cannot happen when the environment does not allow for forgiveness.

If the environment somehow doesn't allow for forgiveness (which I don't think is the case but whatever) then it is not Al Franken's fault, it is the fault of others who refuse to believe he can redeem himself. Franken could give other public officials an inspiration to reform themselves as well and bring quicker resolution to the problem of sexual predation, harassment and whatnot, but hey, that was never possible because people like you refused to give him the chance.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I love people who claim dems are so inconsistent for being even slightly openminded about Franken, who has had a couple of fairly minor allegations, while they support a President who not only has nearly 20 accusers, he also has basically admitted exactly what he is accused of, and in some cases even worse. AND, most seem to be supporting the child molester down in Alabama. Amazing.

For the record, I think Franken should resign, but I don't feel those who disagree are some kind of crazies or are somehow being wildly inconsistent.

I think Franken ought to make himself an example for others by staying in office, fighting for justice for those harassed and sexually assaulted using that senate seat, and doing penance for his past. He shouldn't resign.

The only way he can set a good example is by resigning.

That's not true.

Given the environment in which we now find ourselves, I don't think the penance you describe can be achieved. Forgiveness must be earned, but that cannot happen when the environment does not allow for forgiveness.

If the environment somehow doesn't allow for forgiveness (which I don't think is the case but whatever) then it is not Al Franken's fault, it is the fault of others who refuse to believe he can redeem himself. Franken could give other public officials an inspiration to reform themselves as well and bring quicker resolution to the problem of sexual predation, harassment and whatnot, but hey, that was never possible because people like you refused to give him the chance.

My opinions have absolutely no effect on what will happen to anyone in Congress. I'm just saying what I think is possible given what is going on right now, and Franken being an inspiration is not it.

I am talking in general terms. We don't need vengeance, we need a general understanding that yes, things have changed, and a thorough airing of dirty laundry is important, and that people generally should have a chance at redeeming themselves.
If society at large completely shuts the door on forgiveness, it almost certainly at some point will become a blame game with those who are deeply guilty and unrepentant hysterically pointing fingers elsewhere to muddy the waters, and sheer madness overall. And with with more morally mixed people, who did bad things because society told them to and/or society's twisted standards making them think it was okay, seeing their careers ruined in the process. Who needs that?
I would agree we absolutely need tough standards, but we need to start at an ideal pace, and adopt the correct thinking. We need to give people who show signs of proactiveness a path, and leave behind those who won't catch up. Franken called for an Ethics investigation on himself pretty quickly. We need to keep up the pressure, for sure, but that doesn't mean insisting on his resignation is necessary at all. Our present situation will only escalate. Sexual assault and harassment is a wide societal problem, and we need to do deal with it correctly.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Tim your childlike naïvite is actually cute instead of incredibly frustrating for once.

What's really naive is seeing the various degrees of sexual misconduct as anything other than a general societal problem.