What if Al Franken doesn’t resign and Roy Moore loses?

[Beet]

Would everyone who has disparaged the people of Alabama owe an apology?

[Sestak]

Probably.

I don't think Alabamians are bad people at all - I think they're mostly normal people, who try to be good people. Yes, many are misguided. But that doesn't make them all evil.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

Probably.

I don't think Alabamians are bad people at all - I think they're mostly normal people, who try to be good people. Yes, many are misguided. But that doesn't make them all evil.

Well said.

[Mr. Smith]

The better question is what happens here if the opposite outcomes occur.

[Lachi]

Probably.

I don't think Alabamians are bad people at all - I think they're mostly normal people, who try to be good people. Yes, many are misguided. But that doesn't make them all evil.

[NewYorkExpress]

If that happens, the next thing the Senate should do is move to expel Al Franken.

That would send a clear message that their is no place for sexual harassers in high Government positions.

[HisGrace]

Franken resigning is ultimately up to Franken. Even if the Dem leadership demands he do it he could just decide to stay on and finish his term as a pariah, so it's not really a fair comparison.

Franken should resign regardless of anything having to do with Moore.

[politics_king]

Franken should. Take the moral high ground. Moore is batsh**t nuts that his own party is trying to stuff him away.

[Inmate Trump]

We can't denounce one person but turn a blind away to another just because he's in our party.

[Crumpets]

We'd get 4 years of Fox News coverage about how Democrats are the party of sexism in addition to founding the KKK, ISIL, etc.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

So far it looks like Franken-Moore comparisons are false equivalences. Until we have evidence that Franken has been a serial abuser, and has abused children, then accusations against Moore are much more reprehensible.

I think Franken should resign, but please stop discussing these two cases as if they are interchangeable. They are similar in essence but orders of magnitude different in degree.

[elcorazon]

So far it looks like Franken-Moore comparisons are false equivalences. Until we have evidence that Franken has been a serial abuser, and has abused children, then accusations against Moore are much more reprehensible.

I think Franken should resign, but please stop discussing these two cases as if they are interchangeable. They are similar in essence but orders of magnitude different in degree.

They are barely even similar. I favor Franken resigning, but I am getting sick of the comparison. Not to mention that Trump has been shown to have done MUCH worse than anything Franken has been accused of doing so far and by more people. Moore is a predator while Franken appears to be a typical disingenuous guy.

[Wiz in Wis]

So far it looks like Franken-Moore comparisons are false equivalences. Until we have evidence that Franken has been a serial abuser, and has abused children, then accusations against Moore are much more reprehensible.

I think Franken should resign, but please stop discussing these two cases as if they are interchangeable. They are similar in essence but orders of magnitude different in degree.

They are barely even similar. I favor Franken resigning, but I am getting sick of the comparison. Not to mention that Trump has been shown to have done MUCH worse than anything Franken has been accused of doing so far and by more people. Moore is a predator while Franken appears to be a typical disingenuous guy.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Franken is just an good honest person who made 1 mistake (mistake being something that a large majority of adults have done at some point or another).

Moore and Trump are actual criminals.

[TheSaint250]

Franken is just an good honest person who made 1 mistake (mistake being something that a large majority of adults have done at some point or another).

Moore and Trump are actual criminals.

Never mind the stories of others like Sam Spade's about his aunt. Never mind that what he did was horrible. "It was just a mistake."

[BlueSwan]

NO!

Come on. Franken and Moore are not even in the same ballpark.

Unless a behavioural pattern is established regarding Franken, what we have is ONE incident of Franken doing two things:

1) Taking a stupid "funny photo" that was CLEARLY meant as a joke. A very poor decision, but still a joke.

2) Rehearsing a kiss, where he sticks his tongue into the womans mouth. I was pretty grossed out at that story, but it is very possible for two people to interpret such a situation differently and it appears that Franken thought something else was going on.

This is NOT grounds for a publically elected senator to step down.

I will obviously revise this opinion IF a pattern of abusive behaviour is established.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

So far there's no evidence of this being more than a one-time of bad judgement for which Franken has apologized for and said apology has been accepted.

In comparison, we have repeated credible corroborated allegations against Moore of far worse behavior which he issues lame denials of and ascribes to a vast establishment-wing conspiracy.

[Tintrlvr]

The false equivalency is strong in this thread.

[Nichlemn]

I feel like a bunch of Dems are almost eager to have Al Franken to throw under the bus to "show they're not hypocrites". Almost any other year and I doubt it's as big a deal.

Are we really at the point where if you step out of line once in your entire life, you're automatically unfit for public office? It'd be one thing if were rape or a pattern of harassment. But if you're a bit lewd once, that's it, you're blacklisted forever? 

[Crumpets]

I feel like a bunch of Dems are almost eager to have Al Franken to throw under the bus to "show they're not hypocrites". Almost any other year and I doubt it's as big a deal.

Are we really at the point where if you step out of line once in your entire life, you're automatically unfit for public office? It'd be one thing if were rape or a pattern of harassment. But if you're a bit lewd once, that's it, you're blacklisted forever? 

It can feel like this, but I think it's largely a reflection of how unhappy people are with the disparity in standards between the politicians/elites and every day people. If I did what Al Franken is alleged to have done, or if my boss even got the impression that I had done what Al Franken had done, I would in all likelihood be fired. It's the same reason people say Comey's second letter damaged Clinton more than his first - nobody who was part of an investigation just gets it to "go away" out of convenience. We all have to live our life with stupid one-time decisions hanging over us long after they should have been forgotten about, and we want those running our government to have some sense of what that's like since it's pretty clear that the vast majority don't.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

I feel like a bunch of Dems are almost eager to have Al Franken to throw under the bus to "show they're not hypocrites". Almost any other year and I doubt it's as big a deal.

Are we really at the point where if you step out of line once in your entire life, you're automatically unfit for public office? It'd be one thing if were rape or a pattern of harassment. But if you're a bit lewd once, that's it, you're blacklisted forever? 

I have sympathy to the idea that Franken shouldn't resign if the accuser isn't requesting it. Honestly, for transgressions on this scale (way below the Moore/Trump standard but still unacceptable conduct), I don't know what the right course of action is, but in the absence of a clear answer, I think it is good precedent to side with the victim rather than the accused. How we handle cases like these is a societal conversation that we need to have, it's just unfortunate that it's currently happening with a politician and therefore we will never have straightforward, hack-free discourse around it.

I think in a just world, if this happened in another setting (e.g., between two employees at a bank), then the transgressor would be terminated if the victim requested it. This situation is obviously a little different, but I think the same standard should be held for any work-place, including congress. I think that should Franken resign, his life would not necessarily be over (barring an avalanche of similar stories). I think that unlike Louis C.K., he will find potential employers who think what he did was minor (and isolated) enough that they would still be willing to hire him.

[Yank2133]

I feel like a bunch of Dems are almost eager to have Al Franken to throw under the bus to "show they're not hypocrites". Almost any other year and I doubt it's as big a deal.

Are we really at the point where if you step out of line once in your entire life, you're automatically unfit for public office? It'd be one thing if were rape or a pattern of harassment. But if you're a bit lewd once, that's it, you're blacklisted forever? 

Agreed.

Originally, I was one of those folks calling for him to resign. But now I don't think he should. Unless something else comes out, this seems to be a one-time thing and he apologized for it and she accepted it.

[Nichlemn]

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I'd have no problem with Franken being fired from the comedy tour had the allegations emerged at that time.

What does seem disproportionate is that idea that having one misstep in your past is an immediate disqualifier to be a Senator for the rest of your life. It'd be a bit like saying that GWB should have withdrawn from the 2000 Presidential election because of his DUI. 

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I want Franken to resign to put the Dems on the moral high ground heading into AL. His act would be more forgivable if it came out at another time.

[nclib]

Not only is Moore's behavior worse and more widespread than Franken's, these are not analogous to each other based on their platform. Moore has been a crusader for (his view of) sexual morality, even questioning whether or not gays should be murdered by the Federal Government. So it's more hypocritical and a poor reflection on one's character.

This would be like comparing a socialist accused of tax evasion, to a libertarian accused of tax evasion.