Revenue Bill of 2005

[Q]

Why would anyone pay an optional tax (which is what paying in but not receiving benefits would amount to)?

I don't know.  A few George Soros type people may want to return it.

As the law currently exists, though, if someone for some reason wanted to give extra money to the government, they could simply do so.

I have no practical objections to this revised bill, although I think it would rarely be called upon in practice.

[True Democrat]

Why would anyone pay an optional tax (which is what paying in but not receiving benefits would amount to)?

I don't know.  A few George Soros type people may want to return it.

As the law currently exists, though, if someone for some reason wanted to give extra money to the government, they could simply do so.

True, but I think a lot of people don't know they have that option.  I think this bill would imply that when people receive social security checks, there is an option to check a box saying that you don't have to receive the benefits.

[Ebowed]

I still don't think people who don't want to receive the benefits should have to pay the taxes.  Humans are naturally selfish.  How many people are going to check the little box that says they have to pay the taxes, but don't have to receive the benefits?  You pay taxes, you expect something in return.  Truly optional social security would mean opting out of paying into it as well.

[True Democrat]

I still don't think people who don't want to receive the benefits should have to pay the taxes.  Humans are naturally selfish.  How many people are going to check the little box that says they have to pay the taxes, but don't have to receive the benefits?  You pay taxes, you expect something in return.  Truly optional social security would mean opting out of paying into it as well.

How about an amendment saying that if they choose to no longer receive benefits, they no longer have to pay taxes?  But, I don't think giving taxes back would help solve the problem

[Ebowed]

I would vote aye on such an amendment.

But, I don't think giving taxes back would help solve the problem

That's a concession you have to make.  In my opinion, cutting benefits while making them still pay the taxes no matter whether or not they want to receive it is basically a tax hike in disguise.  Although, very few people would opt out of receiving benefits in the first place if they have to keep paying the taxes, so it's moot.

[Emsworth]

Fine, here's the new amendment:

Clauses 1 and 2 are hereby changed to read:

1. All recipients of Social Security benefits shall optionally receive social security benefits.

2. If at any point a former recipient shall again like to receive social security benefits, they shall contact the Social Security Administration, at which point their benefits shall resume the next month.

The question is on the above amendment. All those in favor, say Aye; those opposed, say No.

[True Democrat]

Can I withdraw the amendment?  I'd rather have this one:

Clauses 1 and 2 are hereby changed to read:

1. All recipients of Social Security benefits may have the option provided on every social security check of no longer receiving social security benefits.  If a person chooses to no longer receive social security benefits, they shall no longer have to pay taxes.

2. If at any point a former recipient shall again like to receive social security benefits, they shall contact the Social Security Administration, at which point their benefits shall resume the next month.

EDIT: Emsworth, I changed the language slightly, no substantial changes though.

[Emsworth]

Can I withdraw the amendment?  I'd rather have this one:

Clauses 1 and 2 are hereby changed to read:

1. All recipients of Social Security benefits shall optionally receive social security benefits.  If a person chooses to no longer receive social security benefits, they shall no longer have to pay taxes.

2. If at any point a former recipient shall again like to receive social security benefits, they shall contact the Social Security Administration, at which point their benefits shall resume the next month.

The amendment is withdrawn, then. I'll postpone a vote on this new amendment, as it hasn't been debated yet.

[Gabu]

All recipients of Social Security benefits shall optionally receive social security benefits.

Wait, this statement makes no sense.  A recipient is one who receives something.  This is essentially saying that anyone who receives Social Security benefits shall optionally receive Social Security benefits... which they're already receiving.

[True Democrat]

All recipients of Social Security benefits shall optionally receive social security benefits.

Wait, this statement makes no sense.  A recipient is one who receives something.  This is essentially saying that anyone who receives Social Security benefits shall optionally receive Social Security benefits... which they're already receiving.

How about "may have the option provided on every social security check of no longer receiving social security benefits".

[Gabu]

All recipients of Social Security benefits shall optionally receive social security benefits.

Wait, this statement makes no sense.  A recipient is one who receives something.  This is essentially saying that anyone who receives Social Security benefits shall optionally receive Social Security benefits... which they're already receiving.

How about "may have the option provided on every social security check of no longer receiving social security benefits".

Ah, okay, that makes more sense.

[Defarge]

Ok.  I'm fine with this.  I look forward to saving a very miniscue amount of money.

[True Democrat]

Ok.  I'm fine with this.  I look forward to saving a very miniscule amount of money.

The intention was to save quite a bit of money, but whatever, I'll take what I can get. 

[Gabu]

Ok.  I'm fine with this.  I look forward to saving a very miniscue amount of money.

Yes, given that this bill, with the proposed amendment, is basically just asking people for donations to the government, I doubt it will exactly raise a lot of revenue... but that's better than what it initially did, at least.

[Emsworth]

Can I withdraw the amendment?  I'd rather have this one:

Clauses 1 and 2 are hereby changed to read:

1. All recipients of Social Security benefits may have the option provided on every social security check of no longer receiving social security benefits.  If a person chooses to no longer receive social security benefits, they shall no longer have to pay taxes.

2. If at any point a former recipient shall again like to receive social security benefits, they shall contact the Social Security Administration, at which point their benefits shall resume the next month.

EDIT: Emsworth, I changed the language slightly, no substantial changes though.

The question is on the above amendment. All those in favor, say Aye; those opposed, say No.

[Defarge]

Aye

[Ebowed]

Aye

[Gabu]

Aye.

[Q]

Nay

[MasterJedi]

Aye

[DanielX]

Aye

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Abstain

[True Democrat]

Aye

[Emsworth]

With six Ayes, one No, and one abstention, the amendment is passed. 

[Jake]

Could someone post the bill in its present form please?