Is gillibrand the most cunning politician in America/ the new Lieberman
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  Is gillibrand the most cunning politician in America/ the new Lieberman
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Author Topic: Is gillibrand the most cunning politician in America/ the new Lieberman  (Read 1394 times)
Possiblymaybe
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« on: December 10, 2017, 07:34:09 PM »

Gillibrand has won headlines with her action that could be useful if she chooses to run for president in 2020 against what could be a crowded field.

Others said the moves could actually hurt her in a primary, where loyalists to Clinton and Franken will have long memories.

“All this reeks of is political opportunism and that's what defines Kirsten Gillibrand's career,” one Democratic strategist said. “Why wasn't she talking about Bill Clinton when he was helping her during her various races for the House and Senate? And would she be talking about Bill Clinton today if Hillary Clinton was president? I think we all know the answer.”

When it came to Franken, Gillibrand was “twisting in the wind until the goose was cooked and then saw an opportunity,” the strategist added.

Brent Budowsky, a longtime Democratic aide and columnist for The Hill, acknowledged that the New York senator has played a “leading role against sexual abuse … which is very positive and admired." But he said behind the scenes, “there are some Democrats who did not appreciate the way she went after Bill Clinton.”

He suggested the pressure on Franken helped Democrats gain the high ground against Republicans, but that it also won her criticism from some in the party.

Some of the criticism has been public and harsh.

Hours after she told The New York Times that the president should have resigned, Hillary Clinton’s longtime communications adviser, Philippe Reines, took to Twitter to blast her.

“Ken Starr spent $70 million on a consensual blowjob. Senate voted to keep [President Clinton]. But not enough for you @SenGillibrand?” Reines tweeted. “Over 20 yrs you took the Clintons’ endorsements, money and seat. Hypocrite. Interesting strategy for 2020 primaries, best of luck.”

This week, Matt Lewis, the Daily Beast columnist, called the senator “the most devious and cunning politician in America today.”

“It’s a woman who took Hillary Clinton’s seat, who sucked up to the Clintons for decades, and then totally turned on Bill Clinton and Hillary by the way, when the opportunity presented itself,” Lewis said on CNN. “I have no doubt that she actually does care about this issue but I think Al Franken was pretty good friends with her at one point. Now she’s turned on him. She’s stepping on a lot of people and maybe she might make it all the way to Pennsylvania Avenue in the process.”

Those close to Gillibrand insist she wasn’t trying to make headlines on either Clinton or Franken.

They say as someone who was dealing with sexual harassment issues for years, she felt an obligation to draw a red line — even if it had to deal with one of her colleagues.

The confidants emphasize that she wasn’t trying to be “judge and jury,” as one put it.

When Franken gave his speech, Gillibrand got teary-eyed and in the hours after his resignation, she felt terrible, the confidants say.

Asked about her comments, a Gillibrand adviser referred The Hill to a Facebook post written by the senator earlier this week.

In the post, Gillibrand talked about the decision she made to step forward and ask her colleague to resign from office.

“But this moment of reckoning about our friends and colleagues who have been accused of sexual misconduct is necessary, and it is painful,” she wrote in the lengthy post. “We must not lose sight that this watershed moment is bigger than one industry, any one party, or any one person.”

Some Democrats commend her for taking the lead on an issue that wasn’t gaining traction in recent weeks. Democratic strategist David Wade said Gillibrand “has made herself inseparable from the national conversation” on sexual harassment.

“It certainly positions her as a generational leader for women politicians in the Democratic Party,” Wade said. “It's a gamble in the short term. If you wind up with a Republican winning Franken's Senate seat while Roy Moore ends up in the Senate, some people are going to say that she put her ambitions ahead of the interests of her caucus."

Moore is the Alabama GOP candidate for the Senate accused of predatory behavior toward a number of teenage girls.

“But the sexual harassment issue isn't going away, especially if Moore wins and Democrats force the Republican Party to wear Roy Moore like an ugly Christmas sweater,” Wade continued.

“Her voice is going to automatically be relevant in the years ahead.”

Grant Reeher, the director of the Campbell Public Affairs Institute at the Maxwell School at Syracuse University, said the criticism of Gillibrand “doesn’t ring true to me.”

“If this were some calculated, inauthentic move to position herself for 2020, it’s a strange tactic to take, in pursuit of her party’s nomination,” Reeher said, adding that Gillibrand has been “staking out this area of expertise and interest for many years and has built much of her Senate career around it.”

“She has been a leading spokesperson in the chamber for women’s issues and women’s rights and it’s not surprising to me at all that she would be one of the first Democrats to call out Sen. Franken and when the conversation inevitably turned to him, President Clinton,” he said.

But one Democratic strategist compared Gillibrand’s recent efforts to a speech former senator Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) delivered at the height of the Lewinsky saga condemning Bill Clinton.

“Lieberman raced to be the first to say publicly what his colleagues were all saying privately, because he saw where the political winds were blowing and he wanted to be Al Gore’s running mate," the strategist said.

Gillibrand, the strategist added, “has the same hunger for advancement
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/364022-gillibrand-is-subject-of-debate-over-franken-clinton
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King Lear
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 09:30:23 PM »

I think she's a trouble maker who's undermining the Democratic Party for her own personal gain, however I think she's alienating the base, I've been on Dailykos and lots of liberals are pissed at what she did to Franken.
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MAINEiac4434
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 10:34:42 PM »

I think she's a trouble maker who's undermining the Democratic Party for her own personal gain, however I think she's alienating the base, I've been on Dailykos and lots of liberals are pissed at what she did to Franken.
Fuck them, then. Al Franken is a serial sexual harasser, and real progressives vacated that hellhole long ago.
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King Lear
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2017, 11:08:35 PM »

Thats one of my favorite political websites, and by the way I thought your not spose to use perfantities on this site someone should report you to the moderators.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2017, 11:12:23 PM »

I think she's a trouble maker who's undermining the Democratic Party for her own personal gain, however I think she's alienating the base, I've been on Dailykos and lots of liberals are pissed at what she did to Franken.
Could you post a link to the Daily Kos articles with these comments?
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« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2017, 11:16:22 PM »

Kirsten Gillibrand did not bring up Bill Clinton in that interview. If she answered another way she would have looked like a hypocrite.

As far as Al Franken, again, she would have looked like a hypocrite. She has made sexual assault and women's rights a cornerstone of her agenda. How could she not speak up when one of her Democratic colleagues was mired in sexual assault allegations? Sorry, 8 women did not conspire to take Al Franken down.
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« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2017, 11:23:08 PM »

I think she's a trouble maker who's undermining the Democratic Party for her own personal gain, however I think she's alienating the base, I've been on Dailykos and lots of liberals are pissed at what she did to Franken.

Funny, DailyKos had no problem undermining the Democratic party with Hillary.
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Former Kentuckian
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« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 11:28:30 PM »

Kirsten Gillibrand did not bring up Bill Clinton in that interview. If she answered another way she would have looked like a hypocrite.

As far as Al Franken, again, she would have looked like a hypocrite. She has made sexual assault and women's rights a cornerstone of her agenda. How could she not speak up when one of her Democratic colleagues was mired in sexual assault allegations? Sorry, 8 women did not conspire to take Al Franken down.

Agreed. She was put in a tough spot with the Bill Clinton question. Given her history and reputation, what was she supposed to say? And the Al Franken situation just kept getting worse and worse. Someone had to speak up and break the dam.

Also, this article rubs me the wrong way. The Democratic Party is full of men who are cunning and eager (Tim Ryan, Cory Booker, the Castro Brothers, just to name a few). Calling Gillibrand out for combating sexual assault and misconduct makes me uncomfortable.
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TexArkana
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« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2017, 11:36:20 PM »

Thats one of my favorite political websites, and by the way I thought your not spose to use perfantities on this site someone should report you to the moderators.
What are perfantities?
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King Lear
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« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2017, 11:40:05 PM »
« Edited: December 10, 2017, 11:41:41 PM by King Lear »

All Franken did was participate in a skit with a former Playboy model and hug a few people. He did nothing compared to those two pigs Trump and Moore or this Trent franks idiot who wanted to pay his female interns 5 million dollars for F***ing surrogacy. Why is it that Republicans get off Scott free for offenses that are borderline criminal while democrats get crucified for hugging people and having their hand accidentally slip on someone's ass. This double standard is going to lead republicans to keep winning elections while democrats rip themselves apart over defending some "Moral high ground" that gets you nowhere electorally. What did "Love trumps hate" and "We go high they go low" do fore Hillary last year? All it did was let trump blow us out while the democrats unilaterally disarmed. The only way we will win again is if we get serious about how you win elections in this country and adopt the same take no prisoners approach the republicans have used to stomp on us since 1980.
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Sestak
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« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2017, 11:43:08 PM »

All he did was participate in a skit with a former Playboy model and hug a few people. He did nothing compared to those two pigs Trump and Moore or this Trent franks idiot who wanted to pay his female interns 5 million dollars for F***ing surrogacy. Why is it that Republicans get off Scott free for offenses that are borderline criminal while democrats get crucified for hugging people and having their hand accidentally slip on someone's ass. This double standard is going to lead republicans to keep winning elections while democrats rip themselves apart over defending some "Moral high ground" that gets you nowhere electorally. What did "Love trumps hate" and "We go high they go low" do fore Hillary last year? All it did was let trump blow us out while the democrats unilaterally disarmed. The only way we will win again is if we get serious about how you win elections in this country and adopt the same take no prisoners approach the republicans have used to stomp on us since 1980.

"We go high they go low" was an artificial metric about rhetoric. This is a tangible one. We don't have harassers in our party. They have tons of them. You can vote for the Groper Party, or for us. Who's the real "party of law and order"?

Anyway, I refuse to support a party that defends serial harassers like Franken or Conyers.
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« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2017, 11:45:31 PM »

Thats one of my favorite political websites, and by the way I thought your not spose to use perfantities on this site someone should report you to the moderators.

This is such an innocent comment and I unironically love it
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MAINEiac4434
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« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2017, 12:21:33 AM »

Thats one of my favorite political websites, and by the way I thought your not spose to use perfantities on this site someone should report you to the moderators.
I am sick and tired of so-called progressives sweeping sexual harassment under the rug. We can’t claim to be better than the Republicans if we go about and do this kind of shit.

And by all means, report me. The fascistic “perfanity” rules at this place stifle real conversation while neo-Nazis and sexists run rampant around here but nothing gets done about them because they don’t use certain four-letter words despite saying things far more vile than me.

I’ve had a handful of comments deleted or edited just in the Alabama Senate threads because I will not behave respectfully to those who defend pedophiles. I feel similarly about sexual harassers. They are beneath respect - and beneath contempt.

I’m done being nice.

In conclusion: Kirsten Gillibrand has been absolutely right on this issue, and those who seek to undermine her for being right because some on our team get caught up in the consequences are no better than those who defame Donald Trump and Roy Moore’s accusers.
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Sestak
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« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2017, 12:23:03 AM »

Thats one of my favorite political websites, and by the way I thought your not spose to use perfantities on this site someone should report you to the moderators.
I am sick and tired of so-called progressives sweeping sexual harassment under the rug. We can’t claim to be better than the Republicans if we go about and do this kind of shit.

And by all means, report me. The fascistic “perfanity” rules at this place stifle real conversation while neo-Nazis and sexists run rampant around here but nothing gets done about them because they don’t use certain four-letter words despite saying things far more vile than me.

I’ve had a handful of comments deleted or edited just in the Alabama Senate threads because I will not behave respectfully to those who defend pedophiles. I feel similarly about sexual harassers. They are beneath respect - and beneath contempt.

I’m done being nice.

In conclusion: Kirsten Gillibrand has been absolutely right on this issue, and those who seek to undermine her for being right because some on our team get caught up in the consequences are no better than those who defame Donald Trump and Roy Moore’s accusers.

Preach.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2017, 02:50:54 AM »

No, she can't be the new Lieberman.

She has a soul, for starters.
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CookieDamage
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« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2017, 02:52:54 AM »

No, she can't be the new Lieberman.

She has a soul, for starters.
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SKY
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« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2017, 12:29:27 PM »

I think she is a political opportunist - she seems to have no hesitation to throw someone under the bus for political points; I have yet to see anything out of her that truly feels genuine.

(FYI - she is my Senator)
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SWE
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« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2017, 12:32:03 PM »

She's pretty unambiguously a flip flopping opportunist in the mold of Mitt Romney and you're an idiot if you trust her. That being said, I'd be surprised if I didn't end up supporting her in the 2020 primaries.
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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2017, 01:26:25 PM »

Yeah, remember the time when she was pro-guns when she was in the House but then suddenly became pro-gun control when she got Hillary's seat in the Senate? She won't get my vote in the primaries.
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Sestak
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« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2017, 01:28:23 PM »

Yeah, remember the time when she was pro-guns when she was in the House but then suddenly became pro-gun control when she got Hillary's seat in the Senate? She won't get my vote in the primaries.

Yeah, Gillibrand does have a sketchy, flip-floppety record overall, and does a lot of virtue signaling. She is, however, completely correct on the harassment issue.
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PragmaticPopulist
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« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2017, 01:53:26 PM »

I think she's a trouble maker who's undermining the Democratic Party for her own personal gain, however I think she's alienating the base, I've been on Dailykos and lots of liberals are pissed at what she did to Franken.
The people on the Daily Kos who defended Franken until the end are probably just a small fraction of the base. Gillibrand is clearly trying to reach out to not the the progressive base, but more middle-of-the-road voters who may have voted for Trump or not voted.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2017, 02:04:18 PM »

Gillibrand is clearly trying to reach out to not the the progressive base, but more middle-of-the-road voters who may have voted for Trump or not voted.

Honestly, I don't think so.  She's going left on basically every domestic policy issue, co-sponsoring virtually every bill put forward by Sanders (e.g., on health reform, free college, etc.).  I think she sees an advantage in the primary to agreeing with Sanders on the issues, but that doesn't automatically translate into a Sanders-esque campaign, nor appealing primarily to Sanders 2016 primary voters.  Unlike Sanders, she's not so focused on economic inequality as her primary issue, and she's also not so critical of the Democratic Party as an institution.  I assume that most of her support in the 2020 primaries would come from Clinton '16 primary voters, even if her issue platform is closer to Sanders than to Clinton.
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« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2017, 02:04:55 PM »

Kirsten Gillibrand did not bring up Bill Clinton in that interview. If she answered another way she would have looked like a hypocrite.

As far as Al Franken, again, she would have looked like a hypocrite. She has made sexual assault and women's rights a cornerstone of her agenda. How could she not speak up when one of her Democratic colleagues was mired in sexual assault allegations? Sorry, 8 women did not conspire to take Al Franken down.

Agreed. She was put in a tough spot with the Bill Clinton question. Given her history and reputation, what was she supposed to say? And the Al Franken situation just kept getting worse and worse. Someone had to speak up and break the dam.

Also, this article rubs me the wrong way. The Democratic Party is full of men who are cunning and eager (Tim Ryan, Cory Booker, the Castro Brothers, just to name a few). Calling Gillibrand out for combating sexual assault and misconduct makes me uncomfortable.

This. The so-called progressives attacking her for this are just as bad as those defending Trump.
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« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2017, 02:48:56 PM »

I think she's a trouble maker who's undermining the Democratic Party for her own personal gain, however I think she's alienating the base, I've been on Dailykos and lots of liberals are pissed at what she did to Franken.

This is my problem with the very progressive wing of the party. They can't stand losing a member of their own no matter what he/she did. They believe Franken did nothing wrong.
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GoldenMainer
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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2017, 05:06:12 PM »

From what I've seen, the progressive wing of the party (Nina Turner/Our Revolution types) is the least angry with Franken resigning and are already getting behind Ellison. The more establishment "support Dems at all costs!!" Hillary Clinton voters are more angry about this (Democratic Underground/Neera Tanden/Debra Messing types). These are usually the same people who don't take criticism of the Democratic party very well. The more tribal you are, the higher likelihood there is of you being defensive about sexual harassment in your own party- with exceptions of course.
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