can we talk about the aliens

[JA]

I've always believed extraterrestrial UFOs and intelligent life were real. While this isn't absolute confirmation, it is certainly some of the strongest evidence demonstrating their existence. So long as they aren't hostile, I'd be very happy if we could make contact and explore these things much further.

[Lord Admirale]

When you manage to secure millions of dollars of public funding to help you confirm your belief in alien life

[ProudModerate2]

i want to meet the aliens tbh they might be cool

You might even fall in love with one of them .....

The first image is obviously a nice kiss to the cheek.
The second is an alien's version of a French kiss.
Which would you prefer?

[ProudModerate2]

I've always believed extraterrestrial UFOs and intelligent life were real. While this isn't absolute confirmation, it is certainly some of the strongest evidence demonstrating their existence. So long as they aren't hostile, I'd be very happy if we could make contact and explore these things much further.

LOL.
That was a good movie.
I would recommend it to anyone who enjoys watching UFO/alien-like movies.
It has some really funny scenes too.
It had me both in fear and laughing.
Movie is called : Signs.

[The Mikado]

My big problem with this is the idea that there are aliens that technologically advanced enough to get here, clearly wish to remain secret, and yet get themselves seen repeatedly. It's a weird combo.

That said, now that we're in an era where pretty much everyone has a HD camera in their pocket, I think sightings will be harder to dispute when they happen.

[emailking]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/unidentified-flying-object-navy.html

The NYT's article specifically dedicated to the incident with the two pilots is absolutely insane, there's so much corroboratinq evidence. The pilots were directed to the location of the UFO by a US Navy cruiser who had been observinq it on radar maneuverinq and chanqinq speed at impossible rates. The pilots saw it firsthand and watched it do exactly the thinqs that were recorded on radar.

honestly, what's the skeptic's explanation for all of this?

How about one of the explanations that are offered in your article?

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That’s not actually an explanation. That’s barely a coherent thought.

It's a perfectly good explanation and also coherent. What he's saying is that this sort of thing happens often and it never amounts to anything, so there's no reason to believe it this time without some convincing reason to think this time might be different. To be polite, he's suggesting it could be an unidentified human aircraft rather than positing that the claimants are 1. lying or 2. crazy.

[Bacon King]

I'm not necessarily sayinq these are aliens, per se - for me it's just a convenient shorthand to mean "literally no reasonable explanation exists" and therefore can only be caused by some sort of unexplained phenomenon. Are we literally talkinq about extraterrestrial craft here? I mean honestly I doubt it but qiven what we know it can't be ruled out which is absolutely insane.

I'm inclined to think most "genuine" sighting that are not misidentification are of top secret government projects rather than anything extraterrestrial. But examples like the one linked in thread are hard to fit into that description.

I aqree with you - for example "Area 51" is famously used to test conventional experimental aircraft, sometimes of the sort that doesn't become declassified for decades afterwards. But if the US (or any qovernment's) aircraft could pull insane aerial stunts like what this craft was observed to do by two pilots AND military radar - the technoloqical disparity would be like the US secretly buildinq a functional B-2 durinq WW1[/quote]

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I think there's definitely an institutional bias in the military that discouraqes any mention of incidents involvinq "unexplained aerial phenomena" or whatever you want to call them. In the NYT article, Commander Fravor mentioned everyone lauqhed at him after he reported the incident. If he was ridiculed, even with so much supportinq evidence, how many other incidents aren't reported at all? Remember, Fravor not only recorded the siqhtinq from his aircraft, another pilot also saw everythinq -- AND it independently detected by the USN cruiser that sent them on intercept vector in the first place). If another pilot saw the same thinq on their own, without any other observers, would they risk beinq ostracized for soundinq crazy, possibly even risk havinq their judqement, eyesiqht, or sanity questioned?

What motivation does a commandinq officer have to pass a subordinate's "UFO siqhtinq" up the chain of command? At best it would be seen as a frivolous waste of time, and could possibly brinq their own judqement into question as well.

Other nations like Chile actually have established protocol and an official board for investiqatinq unexplained phenomena like this. here, thouqh, who would you even trust to report it to?

[Bacon King]

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It's a perfectly good explanation and also coherent. What he's saying is that this sort of thing happens often and it never amounts to anything, so there's no reason to believe it this time without some convincing reason to think this time might be different. To be polite, he's suggesting it could be an unidentified human aircraft rather than positing that the claimants are 1. lying or 2. crazy.

That's nothinq more than a boilerplate "standard arqument to debunk fanciful claims" that is usually appropriate, sure, but how does it explain any of this? Literally any of it at all? This isn't "people active in the air and don't want others to know about it." Seriously did you even read this:

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This information:

1. was publicly released by the US Navy
2. was provided by a skilled pilot of sound mind and judqement
3. was entirely corroborated by his winqman, also a skilled pilot of sound mind and judqement
4. perfectly matches a report anonymously released ten years aqo (shortly after the event in question)
5. includes literal video footaqe of the event in question

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's a perfectly good explanation and also coherent. What he's saying is that this sort of thing happens often and it never amounts to anything, so there's no reason to believe it this time without some convincing reason to think this time might be different. To be polite, he's suggesting it could be an unidentified human aircraft rather than positing that the claimants are 1. lying or 2. crazy.

That's nothinq more than a boilerplate "standard arqument to debunk fanciful claims" that is usually appropriate, sure, but how does it explain any of this? Literally any of it at all? This isn't "people active in the air and don't want others to know about it." Seriously did you even read this:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

This information:

1. was publicly released by the US Navy
2. was provided by a skilled pilot of sound mind and judqement
3. was entirely corroborated by his winqman, also a skilled pilot of sound mind and judqement
4. perfectly matches a report anonymously released ten years aqo (shortly after the event in question)
5. includes literal video footaqe of the event in question

I think the usual line here is 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof'.

What all the above amount to is 'some credible witnesses reported seeing something really strange'. That's enough to establish that they saw something, but tells us nothing about the ultimate cause.


Personal anecdote: I once spent over an hour on the interstate in the Great Plains chasing a hovering silver UFO. No matter what I did, it stayed in front of me, sometimes moving up or down, wobbling a little left or right, sometimes looking closer or farther away.  At time it seemed quite high in the air, others just ten or twenty degrees above the horizon.

I finally caught up to it. It was the sun reflecting off the polished rear door of a semi ahead of me on the road, with the light bent by air conditions, including the heat coming off the road. If I hadn't caught up to the semi, and watched as the UFO resolved into it, I'd still wonder wtf I'd seen and I'd tell people about my 'UFO' and not 'this cool mirage I saw on the highway'.

[Mike Thick]

I've always believed that the universe is just too big for there not to be other life out there.

Side note: when I was in the second grade, I saw a rod-rectangle-shaped thing with these weird patterns all over it fly through the air for a few seconds and then speed up and disappear into a line of light, all Star Wars like. Nobody believed me, because I was in the second grade. It's been nine years and I still remember it like it was yesterday.

[Kingpoleon]

I’m surprised the Democrats haven’t blamed Russia yet.

[136or142]

My big problem with this is the idea that there are aliens that technologically advanced enough to get here, clearly wish to remain secret, and yet get themselves seen repeatedly. It's a weird combo.

That said, now that we're in an era where pretty much everyone has a HD camera in their pocket, I think sightings will be harder to dispute when they happen.

The best way to look at this is to not assume that there is just one alien race.  If there are two, for instance, it could be that one of them wishes to remain secret and mostly has, while the other one doesn't care, and is the reason for nearly all of the sightings.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

My big problem with this is the idea that there are aliens that technologically advanced enough to get here, clearly wish to remain secret, and yet get themselves seen repeatedly. It's a weird combo.

That said, now that we're in an era where pretty much everyone has a HD camera in their pocket, I think sightings will be harder to dispute when they happen.

The best way to look at this is to not assume that there is just one alien race.  If there are two, for instance, it could be that one of them wishes to remain secret and mostly has, while the other one doesn't care, and is the reason for nearly all of the sightings.

Or that the aliens like us, are variable in their competence, and every pilot that let's themselves be seen are swiftly assigned to space latrine duty.

[136or142]

My big problem with this is the idea that there are aliens that technologically advanced enough to get here, clearly wish to remain secret, and yet get themselves seen repeatedly. It's a weird combo.

That said, now that we're in an era where pretty much everyone has a HD camera in their pocket, I think sightings will be harder to dispute when they happen.

The best way to look at this is to not assume that there is just one alien race.  If there are two, for instance, it could be that one of them wishes to remain secret and mostly has, while the other one doesn't care, and is the reason for nearly all of the sightings.

Or that the aliens like us, are variable in their competence, and every pilot that let's themselves be seen are swiftly assigned to space latrine duty.

Yes, that too.  Or that the aliens did not have omniscient awareness of human capabilities and initially allowed themselves to be seen despite their best efforts not to. 

[dead0man]

Holy hell, how many "true believers" do we have here?

[136or142]

Holy hell, how many "true believers" do we have here?

I try to go wherever the evidence goes.  As far as I'm concerned, the "true believers" are those who automatically believe the UFO debunkers even when the claim from the debunkers is 'weather balloons.'

[emailking]

That's nothinq more than a boilerplate "standard arqument to debunk fanciful claims" that is usually appropriate, sure, but how does it explain any of this? Literally any of it at all? This isn't "people active in the air and don't want others to know about it." Seriously did you even read this:

I did read it.

This information:

1. was publicly released by the US Navy
2. was provided by a skilled pilot of sound mind and judqement
3. was entirely corroborated by his winqman, also a skilled pilot of sound mind and judqement
4. perfectly matches a report anonymously released ten years aqo (shortly after the event in question)
5. includes literal video footaqe of the event in question

Well you asked how I would explain it and I thought Mr. Oberg's explanation summed up my thoughts on the matter, i.e. not even something worth spending too much time thinking about. I don't know what it was, and any explanation I give you can pick a million holes in it. My guess is that the pilots are probably mistaken in what they saw. They probably talked about it with themselves and reinforced their beliefs, and probably also exaggerated in each of their own minds what they saw. The video probably has an innocent explanation. A flare(s), a mirage, a high tech spy plane, I have no idea. But I don't want to make an assumption about an unknown. I don't know what the explanation is but I can think of a dozen possible explanations that are more plausible than aliens, which is what you are apparently convinced is the explanation. That is a huge leap of logic.

[dead0man]

Holy hell, how many "true believers" do we have here?

I try to go wherever the evidence goes.  As far as I'm concerned, the "true believers" are those who automatically believe the UFO debunkers even when the claim from the debunkers is 'weather balloons.'

sometimes it is just a weather balloon, as in Roswell.  I strongly suggest reading Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Holy hell, how many "true believers" do we have here?

I don't believe. I think the more likely explanation is the uS military testing astonishingly high tech stuff.

[136or142]

Holy hell, how many "true believers" do we have here?

I try to go wherever the evidence goes.  As far as I'm concerned, the "true believers" are those who automatically believe the UFO debunkers even when the claim from the debunkers is 'weather balloons.'

sometimes it is just a weather balloon, as in Roswell.  I strongly suggest reading Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan.

The old television comedy program Gilligan's Island did an episode where the castaways (except for the Professor) thought they saw a space ship but it turned out to be a weather balloon.  That was either series creator Sherwood Schwartz mocking those who believe in UFOs or mocking Carl Sagan (and J Allen Hynek.)  Of course, Hynek ended up believing in the 'UFOs are real and they are space aliens theory.'

I'm actually not sure why you are so quick to dismiss the possibility of UFOs and space aliens.  There are some theoretical physicists who believe that faster than speed of light travel is possible, and if that is true, there is zero reason why space aliens flying UFOs around earth could not be real.

The only thing left is the propaganda from the government (especially the U.S military) that has turned believing in UFOs into a joke.  But, as we see from this, the U.S military has a vested interested in debunking UFOs because to admit their reality means admitting U.S air space is being infiltrated and the U.S military can't do anything to prevent it.

Obviously there are other questions like 'why would visitors from another world be interested in earth.'  But, as Stanton Friedman has pointed out, there could be dozens of logical explanations for that, including simply 'it's part of their high school classes.'

On the possibility of faster than light travel
1.An old article: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.html

2.A recent article: https://www.sciencealert.com/warp-speed-travel-is-theoretically-possible-according-to-top-astrophysicist

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Holy hell, how many "true believers" do we have here?

I try to go wherever the evidence goes.  As far as I'm concerned, the "true believers" are those who automatically believe the UFO debunkers even when the claim from the debunkers is 'weather balloons.'

sometimes it is just a weather balloon, as in Roswell.  I strongly suggest reading Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan.

The old television comedy program Gilligan's Island did an episode where the castaways (except for the Professor) thought they saw a space ship but it turned out to be a weather balloon.  That was either series creator Sherwood Schwartz mocking those who believe in UFOs or mocking Carl Sagan (and J Allen Hynek.)  Of course, Hynek ended up believing in the 'UFOs are real and they are space aliens theory.'

I'm actually not sure why you are so quick to dismiss the possibility of UFOs and space aliens.  There are some theoretical physicists who believe that faster than speed of light travel is possible, and if that is true, there is zero reason why space aliens flying UFOs around earth could not be real.

The reason why people dismiss the possibility that UFOs are space aliens is because it's based on deeply flawed reasoning.

The way actual learning, science, investigation, etc works is that you find something, and then examine it in detail. You make testable hypotheses and then follow through. You accumulate evidence.

What you DO NOT do is make a baseless conclusion like jumping from  "there are things in the sky we can't identify" to "they must be space aliens!" and then twist every bit of data in support of the preconceived conclusion. It's as ludicrous as saying, "we don't completely understand geophysical processes" and then using every earthquake as evidence that Cthulhu is real.

[136or142]

Holy hell, how many "true believers" do we have here?

I try to go wherever the evidence goes.  As far as I'm concerned, the "true believers" are those who automatically believe the UFO debunkers even when the claim from the debunkers is 'weather balloons.'

sometimes it is just a weather balloon, as in Roswell.  I strongly suggest reading Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan.

The old television comedy program Gilligan's Island did an episode where the castaways (except for the Professor) thought they saw a space ship but it turned out to be a weather balloon.  That was either series creator Sherwood Schwartz mocking those who believe in UFOs or mocking Carl Sagan (and J Allen Hynek.)  Of course, Hynek ended up believing in the 'UFOs are real and they are space aliens theory.'

I'm actually not sure why you are so quick to dismiss the possibility of UFOs and space aliens.  There are some theoretical physicists who believe that faster than speed of light travel is possible, and if that is true, there is zero reason why space aliens flying UFOs around earth could not be real.

The reason why people dismiss the possibility that UFOs are space aliens is because it's based on deeply flawed reasoning.

The way actual learning, science, investigation, etc works is that you find something, and then examine it in detail. You make testable hypotheses and then follow through. You accumulate evidence.

What you DO NOT do is make a baseless conclusion like jumping from  "there are things in the sky we can't identify" to "they must be space aliens!" and then twist every bit of data in support of the preconceived conclusion. It's as ludicrous as saying, "we don't completely understand geophysical processes" and then using every earthquake as evidence that Cthulhu is real.

Except there are many genuine scientists like J Allen Hynek, Stanton Friedman and Jacques Vallee who have done precisely that (although Vallee now argues that UFOs are inter dimensional).  The claim that serious 'UFOlogists' argue 'there are things in the sky we can't identify so they must be space aliens' is the false propaganda I'm referring to.  

It is actually the UFO debunkers who are unscientific in that they don't look at the actual evidence but just dismiss every case and every claim out of hand.  

[emailking]

There are some theoretical physicists who believe that faster than speed of light travel is possible,

No there aren't. Or at least not in the way you mean.

Someone found a solution to the Einstein equations (of general relativity/gravity) that allow for a spacetime wave or bubble to propagate faster than light. In theory, a spacecraft could reside within the bubble and effectively travel faster than light while not actually moving. But this hardly allows for faster than light travel given that the energy needed to create and stabilize a macroscopic bubble of this nature would be more than the energy that is found in the observable universe, and furthermore that energy would also have to be negative. It is probably impossible for negative energies to exist in such large quantities, but in any case it cannot be harnessed due to the sheer amount needed.

Some physicists have tried worked on the problem to try to get around these requirements, but none have said they believe it will possible.

[136or142]

There are some theoretical physicists who believe that faster than speed of light travel is possible,

No there aren't. Or at least not in the way you mean.

Someone found a solution to the Einstein equations (of general relativity/gravity) that allow for a spacetime wave or bubble to propagate faster than light. In theory, a spacecraft could reside within the bubble and effectively travel faster than light while not actually moving. But this hardly allows for faster than light travel given that the energy needed to create and stabilize a macroscopic bubble of this nature would be more than the energy that is found in the observable universe, and furthermore that energy would also have to be negative. It is probably impossible for negative energies to exist in such large quantities, but in any case it cannot be harnessed due to the sheer amount needed.

Some physicists have tried worked on the problem to try to get around these requirements, but none have said they believe it will possible.

The astrophysicist quoted in that article, Geraint Lewis, says he believes it's possible.  At least he did at the time of the article, approximately 2 years ago.  So, it seems, despite what you write here, the scientific community may not be in complete agreement with you.

More recently:  
https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Horizons/status/751917399755005953

Geraint F. Lewis‏
@Cosmic_Horizons
Following Following @Cosmic_Horizons
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Remember kids, there is nothing in physics that rules out time travel & faster than light travel. Don’t stop looking!

[MasterJedi]

Do I believe in aliens? Yes. Do I believe they have visited earth? It's quite possible they have, but we don't have real proof. It's just arrogant to believe that we are the only intelligent life (or life in general) in the entire universe.