can we talk about the aliens

[ProudModerate2]

I believe he's referring to alien life in our solar system or potentially within human reach over the eons (e.g. dozens or possibly hundreds of light years out). Most biologists believe intelligent life is a lot less likely to evolve than non-intelligent, macroscopic life.

No.
America's Sweetheart (user name) was clear when he/she said (and I quote) "the sheer vastness of the universe ."

Being serious for a moment:
I think alien life almost definitely exists, given the sheer vastness of the universe  ...

Yes fair enough but I took the reference to Martians to indicate he was referring to a more local neighborhood for the rest of the post, as they would have to be in order to make any kind of contact with Earth. I suppose it's possible he didn't mean that. But in any case, since we don't know how likely intelligent life is, it's entirely possible we are the only intelligent life in the observable universe. I don't take that position personally, but it's a perfectly defensible one.

Ok. I see what you (and America's Sweetheart) are saying now.
A.S. is probably saying that there is no further "intelligent life" in our solar system (the "little green men from Mars" comment) and if there were life within our solar-system-area, then the only possible occurrence is more than likely "little insects or perhaps even smaller life forms" (as quoted by A.S.).
But that there might be intelligent life, further out, like in another solar system within our galaxy or another galaxy altogether (which would be very, very far away).

I can agree with this.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I suspect for you it would require actually seeing a UFO on the ground with the aliens outside it yourself with the aliens having to do something humans can't do even as magic tricks.

For me, that would probably be enough. If that's all that happened, I would consider other possibilities as well. But I cannot deny if this happened I would most likely find myself leading strongly to an alien hypothesis.

Exactly.  So, that's basically my point with with and (probably) dead0man here.  Virtually nothing would convince you that aliens exist and are visiting earth.  The issue then becomes: is there any point in having a discussion with a person who will simply end up replying to everything either 'that doesn't prove anything' or 'that isn't sufficient evidence.'?

Alien biologial sample results published by a reputable lab.

Intelligible signals of non-human origin.

Clear and detailed images of a craft demonstratably not of human origin.

Alien cultists are of the same class as Trump cultists. They want to believe, so they'll take their beliefs over rational thought very tiem.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

Being serious for a moment:
I think alien life almost definitely exists, given the sheer vastness of the universe, but the idea of little green men from Mars who fly around in super advanced spaceships is obviously pure fantasy. if aliens do exist, they're likely more like little insects or perhaps even smaller life forms than that, although it's not impossible that there's more advanced lifeforms than that somewhere out there.

You do understand that if you believe in the full evolutionary cycle of Homo sapiens, then we (humans) were at one time, in our past, only "smaller life forms" (as you say).
So if who we are today can evolve from such primitive life, who is to say that it cant happen on other worlds ?

If you were to ask humans 500 years ago, that one day we would build machines that can go to the moon (or Mars, which we will do in our near future), you would be laughed at. And 500 years is nothing but a tiny, tiny blip in time. So, if other life somewhere in the universe has evolved like ours to create "intelligent beings," who is to say that they have not existed longer than we have ?
And with time, comes advancement in technologies, like building "strange machines" that can go to the moon, or that can travel time and space to visit other solar systems and galaxies.

I leave you with this ....

Yes, these lifeforms will likely evolve and become more advanced, if they exist. maybe one day we'll see little green men zooming down to earth and buying property in Roswell, New Mexico.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Holy hell, how many "true believers" do we have here?

[Ban my account ffs!]

We live in a matrix and the observable universe is just that... and only that:  observable.

There are no aliens here.  Just us.  Like a set in hollywood with a beautifully painted background scene.  We can gaze into it and dream, but alas, we will never go there.  (This is sarcasm)

The scariest prospect to existence is not countless alien species in a truce to protect our planet from attack or the danger of an attack or some giant galactic federation that hates us... but that this is it.

Everything we know and see is everything there is to know and see.  And we just rinse and repeat forever.

And the worst part are the dead0mans who think that's just fine.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I've always figured this day would come.

[136or142]

So, what would count as evidence to you?

certainly more than what was shown in the OP.  If the majority of scientists said aliens were real and here, I'd except that it was likely that aliens were real and here.  I'd be more apt to believe it that way than if I saw a "ufo" land and "aliens" got out of it and did some "magic".  If I saw that I'd KNOW somebody was playing a trick on me (or I was seeing someone else have a trick played on them and I was a lucky witness).  There needs to be a lot of evidence, in the hands of REAL scientists that don't have a history of being ufo enthusiasts that can do repeatable science on the evidence that proves the case you're trying to make.  Anything less than that just isn't enough.


I'd like to add that I'd be shocked if we were the only life in the universe.  It's just too big.  But that's the problem with "visits", it's just too big.  Why, other than to visit us for the sake of visiting us, would any alien come here?  There is nothing (other than our life forms and the stuff our life forms create) in our solar system that doesn't exist everywhere else in the universe/galaxy and they're not going to know we exist because why would they?  Because of our "radio signals" flying away from us in every direction?  IF (and that's a big "if") they make it more than a few light years away from Earth, they've still only gone at max, a hundred light years.  That's just a tiny speck of the Milky Way.  (granted there are more than a few stars in that sphere.....as many as 512 it seems)  The chances that there is a space traveling life form in that 512 is slim, the odds they've noticed us are slimmer and the chances they've already traveled here slimmer still.

There are a number of problems with this
1.How do you know the aliens are from all that far away relatively speaking?

2.If the universe is anything like the earth, different alien species living on different planets would communicate with each other and would have maps of the parts of the universe they've each charted and would combine them together.  They may have sensors to detect life forms on relatively close planets, unless such a thing is impossible according to physics.

3.If the space aliens are cyborgs, for instance, it's possible they would have a limitless life span, so maybe traveling the universe is just the hobby of those creatures.

I think you certainly bring up some good questions here, but you seem to be guilty of the opposite of what you claimed I was doing earlier: in your case here, that raising doubts is the same thing is providing proof that it can't be happening.  I can't find the exact quote, but former prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi said something like "there are always unanswered questions about a criminal case, but if you know somebody is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, then you know there have to be rational explanations to those questions."  Bugliosi on this was speaking about the questions raised about the guilt of Lee (Harvey) Oswald.

Ultimately I think the questions you raise are not necessarily evidence that aliens visiting in space craft don't exist, but may be nothing more than evidence of your lack of imagination.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, just to point out, I have never said I believe that what people are seeing are aliens in space crafts, just that:
1.There is credible evidence that people are seeing aliens in space craft.

2.Those who claim otherwise are not aware of this credible evidence and their dismissals are based on ignorance.  

3.The desire to dismiss out of hand is based on the U.S government having successfully convinced their population that those who believe in UFOs (or the possibility of UFOs) are kooks and this dismissal is not actually based on anything rational.

I personally have no idea what is going on here, other than that there are very credible cases of people seeing Unidentified Flying Objects and that these people deserve to be taken seriously.

[dead0man]

Clear and detailed images of a craft demonstrably not of human origin.

And this is not that?

no, not even close.  Do you know what clear and detailed means?

There are a number of problems with this
1.How do you know the aliens are from all that far away relatively speaking?

I don't

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k

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k

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imagination has nothing to do with science

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no there isn't

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ok, show me this credible evidence, 'cause I've never seen it.  And if your evidence is a video or involves ufo enthusiasts making claims about a video, don't bother wasting your time.

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perhaps, but it doesn't help the pro-UFO's side that every claim so far has been total BS

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yep, they do.  At least the first time.



Again, all I want is evidence, mountains of it.  And grainy video isn't evidence.  Reasons aliens might exist isn't evidence.  Appeals to authority isn't evidence.

[136or142]

Clear and detailed images of a craft demonstrably not of human origin.

And this is not that?

no, not even close.  Do you know what clear and detailed means?

There are a number of problems with this
1.How do you know the aliens are from all that far away relatively speaking?

I don't

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k

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k

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imagination has nothing to do with science

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no there isn't

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ok, show me this credible evidence, 'cause I've never seen it.  And if your evidence is a video or involves ufo enthusiasts making claims about a video, don't bother wasting your time.

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perhaps, but it doesn't help the pro-UFO's side that every claim so far has been total BS

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yep, they do.  At least the first time.



Again, all I want is evidence, mountains of it.  And grainy video isn't evidence.  Reasons aliens might exist isn't evidence.  Appeals to authority isn't evidence.

1.Imagination and 'strokes of genius' have a great deal to do with scientific discovery and understanding.

2.http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/chasing-ufos/articles/five-good-reasons-to-believe-in-ufos/

That is a start.  Ultimately what you personally choose to believe or not believe is not my concern or interest.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Contrary to the credulous morons who love to feel persecuted for their delusions (I mean the alien nutters, not Trumpers), the search for alien life and intelligence is NOT something that the scientific community rejects out of hand. For example:


Breakthrough Listen to Observe Interstellar Object ‘Oumuamua

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Breakthrough Listen Releases Initial Results and Data from Observations of 'Oumuamua

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It's all a very revealing look into the minds of the UFO loons. First, they get upset that everyone doesn't agree that "we saw something and don't know what it was" = "aliens are here". And then they have to invent from scratch a conspiracy where the whole scientific community is working against them.

The root cause is the same: they just don't like the true answers, so they'd rather live in a world of their own delusions. To quote the President of the United States, "Sad!"

[dead0man]

1.Imagination and 'strokes of genius' have a great deal to do with scientific discovery and understanding.

indeed, but you'll note that's not what I said.  And more importantly "scientific discovery" and "science" are two different things.  Yes, you need imagination to come up with the idea of the electric light, but you need science to make it.  We can all imagine teleportation or computers we can keep in our pocket, but it takes real scientists doing real science to make it happen.  It's easy to imagine aliens, they've been part of our mythology forever, it's a simple concept for humans to come up with (unlike, say, the hexadecimal number system), just like water gods (look, glowing spirits in the swamp again!), ghosts (I saw some weird light out of the corner of my eye) or dragons (look at these giant bones we found in the desert!), our minds demand explanations for things and sometimes there just isn't enough information there and/or the receiver is ignorant of important facts at hand.  The same (or at least similar) thing is at play when we find patterns in random strings of letters or numbers (or whatever).  Human senses are easily fooled AND we have a desire to have things make sense AND aliens are pretty cool...this is why we have so many stories of aliens.  (well, that and a lot people figure it's an easy way to make a buck/get attention)

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start at what?  I've been reading about UFOs since the early 80s.  It's interesting.  Just like ghost stories, religion and magic.  And just like ghost stories, religion and magic, it's all BS until proven otherwise no matter how much I may want it to be real or not.

[SoLongAtlas]

Just going to throw this out there (more background from the fighter pilot incident reportied earlier). Read it all before you make a judgement but understand that all of these were professional pilots, fire control, and other assigned US Navy personnel.

https://fightersweep.com/1460/x-files-edition/

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Just going to throw this out there (more background from the fighter pilot incident reportied earlier). Read it all before you make a judgement but understand that all of these were professional pilots, fire control, and other assigned US Navy personnel.

https://fightersweep.com/1460/x-files-edition/

The problem here is a fundamental disconnect.

No one is actually disputing that some reliable military guys saw (and got some records) of something they couldn't explain.

The disconnect (and the idiocy) comes in when some people start sharing their delusion that "something they couldn't explain" == "alien spaceships are visiting earth".

As an example, I can post an encoded snippet:

e3fOr6hCvJeDXVgwEaKzCn7dhMh6w6pjez2kTpN4vCw8DLI7xqa2UDfyWkyCR0tj2dNRuVWVsgtDOBiO
zZ5WfzWUHyYA0cK2sHBARrxMfFkNCUHuVskRRSmD2vuVJVc4

I'll bet you can't decode that. But it does not prove anything. And if I claim it does, I'm just blowing smoke. But that is EXACTLY what UFO=aliens people are doing (unless they're just trolling).

[dead0man]

Just going to throw this out there (more background from the fighter pilot incident reportied earlier). Read it all before you make a judgement but understand that all of these were professional pilots, fire control, and other assigned US Navy personnel.

https://fightersweep.com/1460/x-files-edition/

yes, we noticed the appeals to authority earlier.

[dead0man]

and this is why I love these stories.....

because I just learned about MARAUDER.  Someone on another board suggested a test of it (or something like it) may have been the cause of the odd thing in the video (probably not).

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[SoLongAtlas]

deadoman A railgun projectile doesn't go from angels 80 to 50 feet off the deck and to a CAP like 50 miles away in 3 seconds and it sure didn't in the early 90s with less tech than now. The Navy still hasn't mastered the railgun they are working on now and it may be shelved entirely (see http://taskandpurpose.com/navy-electromagnetic-railgun-budget/)

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Well, I think we can all agree that there were some flying objects that someone couldn't identify.

[dead0man]

deadoman A railgun projectile doesn't go from angels 80 to 50 feet off the deck and to a CAP like 50 miles away in 3 seconds and it sure didn't in the early 90s with less tech than now. The Navy still hasn't mastered the railgun they are working on now and it may be shelved entirely (see http://taskandpurpose.com/navy-electromagnetic-railgun-budget/)

You'll note I said it probably wasn't this (though it's a million times more likely than aliens), I just thought it was cool.  Why would you think they stopped making it better in the early 90s?  What would the Navy's failed railgun have anything to do with the USAF's working and different kind of railgun?

[emailking]

deadoman A railgun projectile doesn't go from angels 80 to 50 feet off the deck and to a CAP like 50 miles away in 3 seconds

Neither do aliens, so far as we know.

[Person Man]

There is definitely life and even intelligent somewhere out there unless of course we do live in a simulation or that some variation of creationism is true (where life on Earth just was there and had no natural beginning). The chance of even intelligent life being a one and done thing in a natural world approaches infinity. We have a better probability of floating off into space suddenly than being "alone".

That said, it is very unlikely that something relatively close to us in time and space would be there to visit or contact us. We probably have already been visited but probably by beings who have been intelligent for millions of years. That means we probably would never be able to find them or know they are here because we are unable to detect their past or present presence.

In order to have a chance to see little grey or green men, they would have to be close and advanced enough to find us and come here yet not too advanced or different that we can't detect them.

[emailking]

I do think it's possible (though I wouldn't bet on it) that we're the only intelligent life in the observable universe (parts old enough that we can see light from them). We just don't know enough about how likely life is to occur, much less intelligent life, in order to know otherwise.

But if the universe is infinite, as it appears to be, then it is a sure thing that there is other intelligent life. In fact, it's a sure thing that there are identical copies of Earth and everything on it, infinitely many in fact. But since they're not observable in principle, it's somewhat of a philosophical question whether they should be considered real to us or not.

[dead0man]

I do think it's possible (though I wouldn't bet on it) that we're the only intelligent life in the observable universe (parts old enough that we can see light from them). We just don't know enough about how likely life is to occur, much less intelligent life, in order to know otherwise.

But if the universe is infinite, as it appears to be, then it is a sure thing that there is other intelligent life. In fact, it's a sure thing that there are identical copies of Earth and everything on it, infinitely many in fact. But since they're not observable in principle, it's somewhat of a philosophical question whether they should be considered real to us or not.

I think it was Hawking that said (paraphrasing) "there are two possibilities, we're alone or we're not and both are awesome".  If we're alone, then that makes us super special (and we should probably be better stewards).  If we're not alone, great, more to discover!  Breaking each down further, are we alone because we're the first?..the last? maybe the only, ever?  Each of those is pretty cool too.  If we're not alone, are we one of just a few locations with life? or maybe one planet of billions?  I think the most likely is the most boring, the universe is teeming with life, but 99.8% of planets with life have only microbial creatures.  Only 1 in 800 have anything bigger than a lady bug and only 1 in 5000 have something advanced as a dolphin and life that creates any kind of advanced tech is extraordinarily rare.


...but that just makes us super special.  We've sent sh**t out of our star system, I'd bet that doesn't happen very often in the universe.

[136or142]

Just going to throw this out there (more background from the fighter pilot incident reportied earlier). Read it all before you make a judgement but understand that all of these were professional pilots, fire control, and other assigned US Navy personnel.

https://fightersweep.com/1460/x-files-edition/

yes, we noticed the appeals to authority earlier.

Edited: There is NOTHING logically wrong with appeals to authority.  The logical fallacy is the misplaced appeal to authority, like using a baseball player to advertise coffee machines.

[ProudModerate2]

I think it was Hawking that said (paraphrasing) "there are two possibilities, we're alone or we're not and both are awesome".  If we're alone, then that makes us super special (and we should probably be better stewards) ....

Even if we are not 100% alone, it is fair to say that for life to begin on any planet, there are many factors that have to be almost perfect for life to flourish.
That makes our planet, very, very very rare, indeed.

And yet we are messing it up, as if it was just a piece of gum you can chew for a while and then be discarded. And to top it off, we have many Pubs and their crony scientists that tell you "everything is perfect," and that our planet is fine. This is what kills me!

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

PROOF!



...that rocket launches can make some really cool and strange light shows.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/nation-now/2017/12/22/mysterious-bright-light-stuns-californians-after-spacex-rocket-launch/978546001/

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