Pacific Legislature Official Thread

[RI]

Does it really matter what it is called?

Why should the Pacific be labeling certain acts sins? We are a secular government.

It's pretty commonly accepted that that is the name for this type of tax. You can call it a sumptuary tax or a Pignovian tax or just a sales tax if you want; it doesn't change what it is.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Aye

[Ebowed]

Nay, one of the things that sets the Pacific apart from other regions is its longstanding objection to regressive consumption taxes, including those designed to stimulate social engineering.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Random question : can the councilors vote there too ? Since the assembly is made of every citizen, it also comprises them.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Nay, one of the things that sets the Pacific apart from other regions is its longstanding objection to regressive consumption taxes, including those designed to stimulate social engineering.

Dude, it taxes DRUGS.  DRUGS.  It's not like we're taxing food for needy people.  

If you dislike the term "sin tax" why don't you just amend the bill and send it back to us?  I seriously don't care what it's named. 

[RI]

Random question : can the councilors vote there too ? Since the assembly is made of every citizen, it also comprises them.

No, we can't. Everyone only gets up to one vote on a bill, either in the Council or the Assembly.

[CatoMinor]

Nay, one of the things that sets the Pacific apart from other regions is its longstanding objection to regressive consumption taxes, including those designed to stimulate social engineering.

Dude, it taxes DRUGS.  DRUGS.  It's not like we're taxing food for needy people.  

If you dislike the term "sin tax" why don't you just amend the bill and send it back to us?  I seriously don't care what it's named. 

You see the problem is that it isn't taxing the Bourgeoisie pigs enough, and it needs to include a provision that the region will not only cover the cost of elective abortions, but we pay people extra to get them. then and only then can we call it a nice progressive bill that it fit for the region

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Not to spoil the great debate going on, but the Council has now passed three bills awaiting approval by the People's Assembly:

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[Ebowed]

Nay, one of the things that sets the Pacific apart from other regions is its longstanding objection to regressive consumption taxes, including those designed to stimulate social engineering.

Dude, it taxes DRUGS.  DRUGS.  It's not like we're taxing food for needy people. 

Surely, you would acknowledge that such a tax will disproportionately affect the poor in relation to their income and savings.

[Ebowed]

You see the problem is that it isn't taxing the Bourgeoisie pigs enough, and it needs to include a provision that the region will not only cover the cost of elective abortions, but we pay people extra to get them. then and only then can we call it a nice progressive bill that it fit for the region

The fact that you somehow see abortion as connected to anything else is a testament to the extremities attracted by the questionable introduction of a two-tiered legislature in the Pacific.  Perhaps your logically disturbing arguments and crass baiting go over well with the members of your council, but they will receive further scrutiny here.

The need for you to mischaracterize our views also demonstrates a lack of intellectual honesty which speaks for itself.

I am not here to rubber stamp your council's thoughtless tax increases and silly abortion regulations (banning partial-birth abortion?  I'm sorry, you may as well ban flag burning while you're at it).

[bgwah]

nay
nay
nay

[Ebowed]

Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act: Nay.
Amendment to the Public Funding of Abortion Act: Nay.
Taxation of Prostitution Act: Nay.

Is there some sort of epidemic of intact D&X that warrants this prohibition, or is this just pointless gesturing that doesn't actually do anything to cut down on the number of abortions performed?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act: Nay
Amendment to the Public Funding of Abortion Act: Nay
Taxation of Prostitution Act: Aye

[RI]

banning partial-birth abortion?  I'm sorry, you may as well ban flag burning while you're at it.

Unlike flag burning, partial-birth abortion is an extremely violent, disgusting, and destructive procedure that involved literally decapitating a child as it is being born and vacuuming out the remains. Not only that, but it is specifically protected by Pacific Statute in section four of the Public Funding of Abortion Act.

[Ebowed]

Unlike flag burning, partial-birth abortion is an extremely violent, disgusting, and destructive procedure that involved literally decapitating a child as it is being born and vacuuming out the remains.

Intact D&X is not performed as the child is being born, but rather involves inducing labor following the death of the fetus.  The alternative that late into the pregnancy is usually destroying the fetus in utero and then removing the parts individually, which can be riskier depending on the exact circumstances of the pregnancy.

Any conversation we are going to have about any kind of abortion performed in the late second and third trimesters will involve 'violent' and 'disgusting' connotations, and I am convinced that legislation of this nature is an overreaction to a procedure that is uncommon and generally only used when medically necessary.  You've left in a provision allowing this procedure if the continuation of the pregnancy constitutes a 'grave' threat to the life of the mother (hardly a parameter with any leeway), and I would be more comfortable with doctors being able to determine that they will not be dealing with serious legal problems for performing one type of abortion over another when the outcome is identical.

[RI]

Unlike flag burning, partial-birth abortion is an extremely violent, disgusting, and destructive procedure that involved literally decapitating a child as it is being born and vacuuming out the remains.

Intact D&X is not performed as the child is being born, but rather involves inducing labor following the death of the fetus.  The alternative that late into the pregnancy is usually destroying the fetus in utero and then removing the parts individually, which can be riskier depending on the exact circumstances of the pregnancy.

Any conversation we are going to have about any kind of abortion performed in the late second and third trimesters will involve 'violent' and 'disgusting' connotations, and I am convinced that legislation of this nature is an overreaction to a procedure that is uncommon and generally only used when medically necessary.  You've left in a provision allowing this procedure if the continuation of the pregnancy constitutes a 'grave' threat to the life of the mother (hardly a parameter with any leeway), and I would be more comfortable with doctors being able to determine that they will not be dealing with serious legal problems for performing one type of abortion over another when the outcome is identical.

Being born was probably a bad way of putting it, but I suppose that's irrelevant. There is some variation on the methods used, however.

Obviously, not much will change on this issue.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

You see the problem is that it isn't taxing the Bourgeoisie pigs enough, and it needs to include a provision that the region will not only cover the cost of elective abortions, but we pay people extra to get them. then and only then can we call it a nice progressive bill that it fit for the region

The fact that you somehow see abortion as connected to anything else is a testament to the extremities attracted by the questionable introduction of a two-tiered legislature in the Pacific.  Perhaps your logically disturbing arguments and crass baiting go over well with the members of your council, but they will receive further scrutiny here.

The need for you to mischaracterize our views also demonstrates a lack of intellectual honesty which speaks for itself.

I am not here to rubber stamp your council's thoughtless tax increases and silly abortion regulations (banning partial-birth abortion?  I'm sorry, you may as well ban flag burning while you're at it).

Yes, how horrible, people will die off in droves now because of our tax on harmful drugs which they don't have to buy.  And the worst part, the money which is collected (from the poor, middle class and rich alike) goes to underfunded hospitals in low income areas and public college grants for aspiring medical practitioners.  We are such bastards.

[Fuzzybigfoot]

Does it really matter what it is called?

Why should the Pacific be labeling certain acts sins? We are a secular government.

Oh yes, just like the Jesus Christ Party!!!! 

Maybe the name of the bill was meant to be silly too. 

[bgwah]

If I don't like Coldplay, does that mean I should try to tax the sale of Coldplay albums and concert tickets, and then devote the revenues to music programs at schools?

[Fuzzybigfoot]

If I don't like Coldplay, does that mean I should try to tax the sale of Coldplay albums and concert tickets, and then devote the revenues to music programs at schools?

Is Coldplay a primary cause of illusions and lung conditions? 

[bgwah]

If I don't like Coldplay, does that mean I should try to tax the sale of Coldplay albums and concert tickets, and then devote the revenues to music programs at schools?

Is Coldplay a primary cause of illusions and lung conditions? 

I believe it is a cause of a brain damage

But more seriously, this is similar to what I mentioned earlier--I think I could support a tax that goes towards funding the associated health care costs with drug use, etc. But if it just goes to the hospitals in general, I don't really think that's fair.

[CatoMinor]

If I don't like Coldplay, does that mean I should try to tax the sale of Coldplay albums and concert tickets, and then devote the revenues to music programs at schools?

Is this a reference to The Bieber-Cobain act?

[Oakvale]

If I don't like Coldplay, does that mean I should try to tax the sale of Coldplay albums and concert tickets, and then devote the revenues to music programs at schools?

The answer is, of course, yes.

[bgwah]

If I don't like Coldplay, does that mean I should try to tax the sale of Coldplay albums and concert tickets, and then devote the revenues to music programs at schools?

The answer is, of course, yes.

Hmm...

[Fuzzybigfoot]

If I don't like Coldplay, does that mean I should try to tax the sale of Coldplay albums and concert tickets, and then devote the revenues to music programs at schools?

Is Coldplay a primary cause of illusions and lung conditions?  

I believe it is a cause of a brain damage

But more seriously, this is similar to what I mentioned earlier--I think I could support a tax that goes towards funding the associated health care costs with drug use, etc. But if it just goes to the hospitals in general, I don't really think that's fair.

Well many hospitals already have high costs due to being understaffed or under equipped, this bill would be aimed at fixing both those problems.