Freedom House 2018 FREEDOM Index

[Lord Halifax]

Lol did they really single out Tibet as a separate entity? Not saying that there aren't problems are, but seriously? Why only Tibet/China? Why don't they also list, say, Rankine state as a separate entity, which is more justifiable since there's an actual genocide with actual killing going on. This merely comes off as anti-China hackery.

Though if they want to double down on said anti-China hackery, they really ought to separate Xinjiang Province as well, due to tensions between the central government and the Muslim peoples there. Right now this is just continuing the trend of more uninformed "Free Tibet" pandering.

They also separate Crimea, Kashmir(s) and Western Sahara

The difference between them is that Tibet is unambiguously a part of China (despite what certain Free Tibet activists say), whereas Crimea, Kashmir, and WS are considered disputed territories on the international stage. This is more akin to separating Catalonia or Scotland away from Spain and the UK, respectively.

At the very least they could've put a dotted line to emphasize the fact that this is an internal matter, de jure and de facto.

I don't really see why Freedom House should be particularly beholden to any ''international stage'' Tibet was de facto independent between 1913 and 1950 and if Freedom House wants to regard them as occupied territory or whatever good for them.

Well, FH certainly has the right to regard Tibet, Kashmir, etc. as occupied territories. And China, India, Pakistan, etc. have every right to ignore FH.

Pakistan very much agree Kashmir is an occupied territory.

But why should the view of states be relevant to FH? Its a private organization, they are under no obligation to care about what various governments think. Its simply not relevant in this context.

[Unapologetic Chinaperson]

Lol did they really single out Tibet as a separate entity? Not saying that there aren't problems are, but seriously? Why only Tibet/China? Why don't they also list, say, Rankine state as a separate entity, which is more justifiable since there's an actual genocide with actual killing going on. This merely comes off as anti-China hackery.

Though if they want to double down on said anti-China hackery, they really ought to separate Xinjiang Province as well, due to tensions between the central government and the Muslim peoples there. Right now this is just continuing the trend of more uninformed "Free Tibet" pandering.

They also separate Crimea, Kashmir(s) and Western Sahara

The difference between them is that Tibet is unambiguously a part of China (despite what certain Free Tibet activists say), whereas Crimea, Kashmir, and WS are considered disputed territories on the international stage. This is more akin to separating Catalonia or Scotland away from Spain and the UK, respectively.

At the very least they could've put a dotted line to emphasize the fact that this is an internal matter, de jure and de facto.

I don't really see why Freedom House should be particularly beholden to any ''international stage'' Tibet was de facto independent between 1913 and 1950 and if Freedom House wants to regard them as occupied territory or whatever good for them.

Well, FH certainly has the right to regard Tibet, Kashmir, etc. as occupied territories. And China, India, Pakistan, etc. have every right to ignore FH.

Pakistan very much agree Kashmir is an occupied territory.

But why should the view of states be relevant to FH? Its a private organization, they are under no obligation to care about what various governments think. Its simply not relevant in this context.

Okay, fair point about Pakistan. But FH lists the "Pakistan" portion of Kashmir as separate (and with worse freedom) from the rest of Pakistan, so I don't think Pakistan would like this list regardless.

And I just said that as a private organization, FH has ever right to determine which territories are occupied and which territories are non-occupied. Especially since as a pro-Western democracy NGO, of course China won't have high opinions on FH regardless of the Tibet question, since any such NGO will inevitably be virulently anti-China, so more power to them.

[Unapologetic Chinaperson]

Also, as private entities ourselves, don't we have the right to criticize any of FH's choices and methodologies in kind?

[Aboa]

Also, as private entities ourselves, don't we have the right to criticize any of FH's choices and methodologies in kind?

Of course, but I simply don't see singling out Tibet as particularly upsetting.