New PA Maps In Effect
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Author Topic: New PA Maps In Effect  (Read 85747 times)
henster
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« Reply #550 on: February 16, 2018, 04:54:21 PM »

Interactive maps for all of the proposals compiled here.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/compare-pa-congressional-map-proposals-fix-gerrymander.html
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Strudelcutie4427
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« Reply #551 on: February 16, 2018, 05:27:41 PM »

Are they trying to screw over Doyle in B?

If they do, any chance Roethlisberger would run when he retires? lol
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Dr Oz Lost Party!
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« Reply #552 on: February 16, 2018, 07:11:50 PM »
« Edited: February 16, 2018, 07:55:33 PM by PittsburghSteel »

Oryx what did you use to make your maps?
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Oryxslayer
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« Reply #553 on: February 16, 2018, 08:09:05 PM »


Same as you, DRA. From there, refined and uploaded into ArcGis/ArcMaps for analysis and presentation. An ArcGis license is incredibly pricey - I have had one for a while thanks to a huge discount from my University. The free open-source QGis therefore might be better.

ArcGis allows you to do a lot of cool stuff, its how I created the minimum-bounding circles and Convex Hulls for some of the compactness requirements. For example, here is a pic from the report I created and sent out with my plan to the special master:

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King Lear
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« Reply #554 on: February 16, 2018, 08:26:30 PM »


Of all the proposed maps I’ve seen from both Republicans and Democrats, this is the only one I think the court should approve. It’s fair, compact, and would probably result in Democrats gaining anywhere from 1-4 seats (PA-07 will definitely flip, while PA-06, PA-08, and PA-15 would flip as well if Democrats are having a good year).
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #555 on: February 16, 2018, 08:49:00 PM »


Of all the proposed maps I’ve seen from both Republicans and Democrats, this is the only one I think the court should approve. It’s fair, compact, and would probably result in Democrats gaining anywhere from 1-4 seats (PA-07 will definitely flip, while PA-06, PA-08, and PA-15 would flip as well if Democrats are having a good year).

PA-18 would probably flip in 2018.  And if Holden runs in PA-11, he'd probably have a pretty good shot of winning too.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #556 on: February 17, 2018, 12:49:33 PM »
« Edited: February 17, 2018, 01:07:00 PM by Gass3268 »

John O'Neill, who drew Florida's current congressional and state senate maps, made a 9D-9R PA (7 safe seats for both sides and 4 that lean one way or the other, but could be won by either side) map that does better on the neutral criteria on the whole than every other plan that's been released.



He splits less counties and municipalities than any other map and ties the Senate Democrats for the fewest precinct splits. His compactness score is also better or tied than any other map in 2 of the 3 compactness score and only 0.1 off on the third. What allows his map to be more competative is he splits the City of Pittsburgh as one of his 14 municipality splits, splits Philadelphia 4 times, and Bucks as one of his county splits.  

Source

Here is the PVI data

I would not be shocked if we got a map that looked like this.
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Doimper
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« Reply #557 on: February 17, 2018, 01:29:01 PM »

John O'Neill, who drew Florida's current congressional and state senate maps, made a 9D-9R PA (7 safe seats for both sides and 4 that lean one way or the other, but could be won by either side) map that does better on the neutral criteria on the whole than every other plan that's been released.



He splits less counties and municipalities than any other map and ties the Senate Democrats for the fewest precinct splits. His compactness score is also better or tied than any other map in 2 of the 3 compactness score and only 0.1 off on the third. What allows his map to be more competative is he splits the City of Pittsburgh as one of his 14 municipality splits, splits Philadelphia 4 times, and Bucks as one of his county splits.  

Source

Here is the PVI data

I would not be shocked if we got a map that looked like this.

I like this one a lot.
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Sol
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« Reply #558 on: February 17, 2018, 02:06:09 PM »

I don't really understand why these maps keep on splitting Dauphin from Cumberland. Seems like they'd belong together in a fair map.
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cinyc
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« Reply #559 on: February 17, 2018, 02:31:54 PM »

John O'Neill, who drew Florida's current congressional and state senate maps, made a 9D-9R PA (7 safe seats for both sides and 4 that lean one way or the other, but could be won by either side) map that does better on the neutral criteria on the whole than every other plan that's been released.



He splits less counties and municipalities than any other map and ties the Senate Democrats for the fewest precinct splits. His compactness score is also better or tied than any other map in 2 of the 3 compactness score and only 0.1 off on the third. What allows his map to be more competative is he splits the City of Pittsburgh as one of his 14 municipality splits, splits Philadelphia 4 times, and Bucks as one of his county splits.  

Source

Here is the PVI data

I would not be shocked if we got a map that looked like this.

I like this one a lot.

Of course you do. Your avatar claims you’re a Democrat. I hate this map because I”m a Republican, and this map gives Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Democrats far more power than they deserve. Geography matters.

That’s one of many reasons why if I were writing the rules, cities would not be chopped more often than necessary as a first order, except to comply with the VRA.
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Doimper
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« Reply #560 on: February 17, 2018, 02:58:50 PM »

John O'Neill, who drew Florida's current congressional and state senate maps, made a 9D-9R PA (7 safe seats for both sides and 4 that lean one way or the other, but could be won by either side) map that does better on the neutral criteria on the whole than every other plan that's been released.



He splits less counties and municipalities than any other map and ties the Senate Democrats for the fewest precinct splits. His compactness score is also better or tied than any other map in 2 of the 3 compactness score and only 0.1 off on the third. What allows his map to be more competative is he splits the City of Pittsburgh as one of his 14 municipality splits, splits Philadelphia 4 times, and Bucks as one of his county splits.  

Source

Here is the PVI data

I would not be shocked if we got a map that looked like this.

I like this one a lot.

Of course you do. Your avatar claims you’re a Democrat. I hate this map because I”m a Republican, and this map gives Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Democrats far more power than they deserve. Geography matters.

That’s one of many reasons why if I were writing the rules, cities would not be chopped more often than necessary as a first order, except to comply with the VRA.

Sure, and I happen to think that Republicans shouldn't get more representation because of a geographic quirk. But you are a Republican, so of course you think that people living in cities should be underrepresented.
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YE
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« Reply #561 on: February 17, 2018, 03:22:58 PM »

John O'Neill, who drew Florida's current congressional and state senate maps, made a 9D-9R PA (7 safe seats for both sides and 4 that lean one way or the other, but could be won by either side) map that does better on the neutral criteria on the whole than every other plan that's been released.



He splits less counties and municipalities than any other map and ties the Senate Democrats for the fewest precinct splits. His compactness score is also better or tied than any other map in 2 of the 3 compactness score and only 0.1 off on the third. What allows his map to be more competative is he splits the City of Pittsburgh as one of his 14 municipality splits, splits Philadelphia 4 times, and Bucks as one of his county splits.  

Source

Here is the PVI data

I would not be shocked if we got a map that looked like this.

I like this one a lot.

Of course you do. Your avatar claims you’re a Democrat. I hate this map because I”m a Republican, and this map gives Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Democrats far more power than they deserve. Geography matters.

That’s one of many reasons why if I were writing the rules, cities would not be chopped more often than necessary as a first order, except to comply with the VRA.

Sure, and I happen to think that Republicans shouldn't get more representation because of a geographic quirk. But you are a Republican, so of course you think that people living in cities should be underrepresented.

I don't like how Pittsburgh is split up at all.
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cinyc
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« Reply #562 on: February 17, 2018, 03:33:32 PM »

John O'Neill, who drew Florida's current congressional and state senate maps, made a 9D-9R PA (7 safe seats for both sides and 4 that lean one way or the other, but could be won by either side) map that does better on the neutral criteria on the whole than every other plan that's been released.



He splits less counties and municipalities than any other map and ties the Senate Democrats for the fewest precinct splits. His compactness score is also better or tied than any other map in 2 of the 3 compactness score and only 0.1 off on the third. What allows his map to be more competative is he splits the City of Pittsburgh as one of his 14 municipality splits, splits Philadelphia 4 times, and Bucks as one of his county splits.  

Source

Here is the PVI data

I would not be shocked if we got a map that looked like this.

I like this one a lot.

Of course you do. Your avatar claims you’re a Democrat. I hate this map because I”m a Republican, and this map gives Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Democrats far more power than they deserve. Geography matters.

That’s one of many reasons why if I were writing the rules, cities would not be chopped more often than necessary as a first order, except to comply with the VRA.

Sure, and I happen to think that Republicans shouldn't get more representation because of a geographic quirk. But you are a Republican, so of course you think that people living in cities should be underrepresented.

Nope. My rule would require that cities be adequately represented. No more. No less. There is no reason for Pittsburgh to be split except to double it voting power, or Philadelphia into 4, to increase it by 25%.

But unlike most here, I would ultimately leave redistricting up to the place that the Framers put it in the first place - the state legislature. Not some bogus “independent” commission that really isn’t (because there is no such thing as independent or non-partisan redistricting) or some court that makes up rules to support its party’s position on redistricting for the cycle, like the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. Don’t like the way your legislature drew the map? Vote them out of office in the redistricting cycle.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #563 on: February 17, 2018, 03:42:37 PM »

John O'Neill, who drew Florida's current congressional and state senate maps, made a 9D-9R PA (7 safe seats for both sides and 4 that lean one way or the other, but could be won by either side) map that does better on the neutral criteria on the whole than every other plan that's been released.



He splits less counties and municipalities than any other map and ties the Senate Democrats for the fewest precinct splits. His compactness score is also better or tied than any other map in 2 of the 3 compactness score and only 0.1 off on the third. What allows his map to be more competative is he splits the City of Pittsburgh as one of his 14 municipality splits, splits Philadelphia 4 times, and Bucks as one of his county splits.  

Source

Here is the PVI data

I would not be shocked if we got a map that looked like this.

I like this one a lot.

Of course you do. Your avatar claims you’re a Democrat. I hate this map because I”m a Republican, and this map gives Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Democrats far more power than they deserve. Geography matters.

That’s one of many reasons why if I were writing the rules, cities would not be chopped more often than necessary as a first order, except to comply with the VRA.

Sure, and I happen to think that Republicans shouldn't get more representation because of a geographic quirk. But you are a Republican, so of course you think that people living in cities should be underrepresented.

*snip* Don’t like the way your legislature drew the map? Vote them out of office in the redistricting cycle.

Because that's a thing that can realistically happen with a gerrymandered map Roll Eyes
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henster
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« Reply #564 on: February 17, 2018, 03:43:32 PM »

Has anybody tried DMing persily on twitter with these maps?
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Gass3268
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« Reply #565 on: February 17, 2018, 03:46:43 PM »

John O'Neill, who drew Florida's current congressional and state senate maps, made a 9D-9R PA (7 safe seats for both sides and 4 that lean one way or the other, but could be won by either side) map that does better on the neutral criteria on the whole than every other plan that's been released.



He splits less counties and municipalities than any other map and ties the Senate Democrats for the fewest precinct splits. His compactness score is also better or tied than any other map in 2 of the 3 compactness score and only 0.1 off on the third. What allows his map to be more competative is he splits the City of Pittsburgh as one of his 14 municipality splits, splits Philadelphia 4 times, and Bucks as one of his county splits.  

Source

Here is the PVI data

I would not be shocked if we got a map that looked like this.

I like this one a lot.

Of course you do. Your avatar claims you’re a Democrat. I hate this map because I”m a Republican, and this map gives Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Democrats far more power than they deserve. Geography matters.

That’s one of many reasons why if I were writing the rules, cities would not be chopped more often than necessary as a first order, except to comply with the VRA.

Sure, and I happen to think that Republicans shouldn't get more representation because of a geographic quirk. But you are a Republican, so of course you think that people living in cities should be underrepresented.

*snip* Don’t like the way your legislature drew the map? Vote them out of office in the redistricting cycle.

Because that's a thing that can realistically happen with a gerrymandered map Roll Eyes

Speaking of, I wonder why the League of Women Voters haven't sued over the state legislature maps.
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cinyc
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« Reply #566 on: February 17, 2018, 03:49:03 PM »

John O'Neill, who drew Florida's current congressional and state senate maps, made a 9D-9R PA (7 safe seats for both sides and 4 that lean one way or the other, but could be won by either side) map that does better on the neutral criteria on the whole than every other plan that's been released.



He splits less counties and municipalities than any other map and ties the Senate Democrats for the fewest precinct splits. His compactness score is also better or tied than any other map in 2 of the 3 compactness score and only 0.1 off on the third. What allows his map to be more competative is he splits the City of Pittsburgh as one of his 14 municipality splits, splits Philadelphia 4 times, and Bucks as one of his county splits.  

Source

Here is the PVI data

I would not be shocked if we got a map that looked like this.

I like this one a lot.

Of course you do. Your avatar claims you’re a Democrat. I hate this map because I”m a Republican, and this map gives Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and Democrats far more power than they deserve. Geography matters.

That’s one of many reasons why if I were writing the rules, cities would not be chopped more often than necessary as a first order, except to comply with the VRA.

Sure, and I happen to think that Republicans shouldn't get more representation because of a geographic quirk. But you are a Republican, so of course you think that people living in cities should be underrepresented.

*snip* Don’t like the way your legislature drew the map? Vote them out of office in the redistricting cycle.

Because that's a thing that can realistically happen with a gerrymandered map Roll Eyes

Many a Gerrymander has turned into a Dummymander after 10 years.

Gerrymandering is an American tradition that is even older than the person for whom it is named.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #567 on: February 17, 2018, 04:06:45 PM »

This map is terrible at least for three reasons:
1) it mixes York and Lancaster
2) it splits Bucks
3) there's a seat running from Reading to inner-ring Philadelphia suburbs.

Proportionality matters but this is overdoing it.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #568 on: February 17, 2018, 04:10:04 PM »

This map is terrible at least for three reasons:
1) it mixes York and Lancaster
2) it splits Bucks
3) there's a seat running from Reading to inner-ring Philadelphia suburbs.

Proportionality matters but this is overdoing it.

But it splits less counties then any of the other maps and it is more compact.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #569 on: February 17, 2018, 04:13:27 PM »
« Edited: February 17, 2018, 04:16:50 PM by Virginia »

Many a Gerrymander has turned into a Dummymander after 10 years.

Gerrymandering is an American tradition that is even older than the person for whom it is named.

Do you keep a straight face when you make the argument that rigging elections via crafty map making is OK because ...tradition?

Jesus
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #570 on: February 17, 2018, 04:15:05 PM »
« Edited: February 17, 2018, 04:17:06 PM by Southern Deputy Speaker/National Archivist TimTurner »

This map is terrible at least for three reasons:
1) it mixes York and Lancaster
2) it splits Bucks
3) there's a seat running from Reading to inner-ring Philadelphia suburbs.

Proportionality matters but this is overdoing it.

But it splits less counties then any of the other maps and it is more compact.
Compactness isn't the only thing that matters. I'd rather have Bucks whole and the Lehigh Valley whole rather than have a marginally more compact map.
PA has some parochial rules that have to be followed when one crafts a congressional district map.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #571 on: February 17, 2018, 04:17:47 PM »

Many a Gerrymander has turned into a Dummymander after 10 years.

Gerrymandering is an American tradition that is even older than the person for whom it is named.

Do you keep a straight face when you make the argument that rigging elections via crafty map making is OK because ...tradition?

Jesus
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Nyvin
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« Reply #572 on: February 17, 2018, 04:19:13 PM »


Many a Gerrymander has turned into a Dummymander after 10 years.

Gerrymandering is an American tradition that is even older than the person for whom it is named.

Slavery was also an American Tradition that was written into the constitution by the "Framers"
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Gass3268
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« Reply #573 on: February 17, 2018, 04:19:53 PM »
« Edited: February 17, 2018, 04:23:33 PM by Gass3268 »

This map is terrible at least for three reasons:
1) it mixes York and Lancaster
2) it splits Bucks
3) there's a seat running from Reading to inner-ring Philadelphia suburbs.

Proportionality matters but this is overdoing it.

But it splits less counties then any of the other maps and it is more compact.
Compactness isn't the only thing that matters. I'd rather have Bucks whole and the Lehigh Valley whole rather than have a marginally more compact map.
PA has many parochial rules that have to be followed when one crafts a congressional district map.

The Supreme Court said nothing about having to follow old rules. Luckily the special master drawing the new map is a professor from Stanford and probably knows nothing of these weird rules.

Why does Bucks County get to be kept whole due to tradition, but Delaware and Montgomery can be chopped into a million different pieces. Why are some counties given preferential treatment over the other? Same for municipalities and towns. To me there is no difference is splitting Pittsburgh in two than splitting a random town in Clearfield County in two.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #574 on: February 17, 2018, 04:23:14 PM »


Many a Gerrymander has turned into a Dummymander after 10 years.

Gerrymandering is an American tradition that is even older than the person for whom it is named.

Slavery was also an American Tradition that was written into the constitution by the "Framers"

Jim Crow, lynchings, anti-sodomy laws, all venerated American traditions.
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