Russian Presidential Election, 2018
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Poll
Question: In a hypothetical free election, who would you support for the Russian presidency?
#1
Vladimir Putin (UR)
 
#2
Pavel Grudinin (KPRF)
 
#3
Vladimir Zhirinovsky (LDPR)
 
#4
Grigory Yavlinsky (Yabloko)
 
#5
Boris Titov (PR)
 
#6
Ksenia Sobchak (PV)
 
#7
Alexei Navalny or other banned candidate
 
#8
Any other running candidate
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 117

Author Topic: Russian Presidential Election, 2018  (Read 13684 times)
Lord Halifax
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« Reply #125 on: March 19, 2018, 07:21:46 AM »

Gotta love the Tuvans for not being subtle at all. Over 90% turnout and over 90% Putin. There were also a couple federal subjects in the Caucasus that way, but it seems random that Tuva would be that blatant.

Well, Tuva or Tannu Tuva are majority Tuvans which are a branch of Mongols but speak a Turkic language so it its the ethnic enclave pattern.   Of course I do not recognize Tannu Tuva as being part of Russia.  I insists it is Chinese territory which we call 唐努烏梁海 (Tannu Uriankhai) which the Red Russia stole from us back in 1921 creating a puppet independent government before annexing it into USSR back in 1944.

How you feel about Tuva being part of Russia is completely irrelevant to the election, so please keep that to yourself.
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jaichind
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« Reply #126 on: March 19, 2018, 08:10:39 AM »

Gotta love the Tuvans for not being subtle at all. Over 90% turnout and over 90% Putin. There were also a couple federal subjects in the Caucasus that way, but it seems random that Tuva would be that blatant.

Well, Tuva or Tannu Tuva are majority Tuvans which are a branch of Mongols but speak a Turkic language so it its the ethnic enclave pattern.   Of course I do not recognize Tannu Tuva as being part of Russia.  I insists it is Chinese territory which we call 唐努烏梁海 (Tannu Uriankhai) which the Red Russia stole from us back in 1921 creating a puppet independent government before annexing it into USSR back in 1944.

How you feel about Tuva being part of Russia is completely irrelevant to the election, so please keep that to yourself.

Well, the post below which is part of this thread is represents a personal opinion on where Crimea belongs.  Not sure why I cannot weigh in on my view on where Tannu Uriankhai belongs.

Crimea has special place in many Russian's (even - democratically minded) hearts. My mother, for example. She is 91, and she voted for Yavlinsky with me today. But for her Khrushchev is an idiot,  who voluntarily gave Crimea to Ukraine, while it's "proper place" is to be part of Russia. For vast majority (80+%) of Russians it's the same.
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kelestian
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« Reply #127 on: March 19, 2018, 08:59:11 AM »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Me: Ttitov. Father: Putin. Mother: Baburin. Grandad: Grudinin.
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #128 on: March 19, 2018, 09:07:59 AM »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Me: Ttitov. Father: Putin. Mother: Baburin. Grandad: Grudinin.

You have very "patriotic" family.....
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weatherboy1102
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« Reply #129 on: March 19, 2018, 09:54:37 AM »

Bad result for the LDPR at least, down around 1% compared to last time. Small consolation I suppose.
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jaichind
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« Reply #130 on: March 19, 2018, 09:57:35 AM »

Bad result for the LDPR at least, down around 1% compared to last time. Small consolation I suppose.

Is that not a function of higher turnout ?
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Karpatsky
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« Reply #131 on: March 19, 2018, 11:07:08 AM »

Bad result for the LDPR at least, down around 1% compared to last time. Small consolation I suppose.

Is that not a function of higher turnout ?

Yes. His vote number is almost the same.
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GMantis
Dessie Potter
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« Reply #132 on: March 19, 2018, 11:30:09 AM »

Gotta love the Tuvans for not being subtle at all. Over 90% turnout and over 90% Putin. There were also a couple federal subjects in the Caucasus that way, but it seems random that Tuva would be that blatant.

Well, Tuva or Tannu Tuva are majority Tuvans which are a branch of Mongols but speak a Turkic language so it its the ethnic enclave pattern.   Of course I do not recognize Tannu Tuva as being part of Russia.  I insists it is Chinese territory which we call 唐努烏梁海 (Tannu Uriankhai) which the Red Russia stole from us back in 1921 creating a puppet independent government before annexing it into USSR back in 1944.
Do you consider Mongolia also Chinese territory?
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jaichind
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« Reply #133 on: March 19, 2018, 11:31:10 AM »

Here's a picture of the ballot. As far as I'm aware, Russia does not have an option for write-in candidates, so everyone voting Navalny on this thread would simply have their ballot not counted, which IMHO is not that effective of a protest. Some other interesting things - Putin has by far and away the shortest resume on the ballot - all it says is "Born in 1952, lives in Moscow, President of the Russian Federation, self-nominated"

Compare that to Suraykin's which reads "Born in 1978, lives in Moscow, political party: "Political Party COMMUNIST PARTY COMMUNISTS OF RUSSIA" Chairman of the Central Committee. Nominated by the political party "Political Party COMMUNIST PARTY COMMUNISTS OF RUSSIA" member of the political party "Political Party COMMUNIST PARTY COMMUNISTS OF RUSSIA" Chairman of the Central Committee of the party."

Holy redundancy Batman!



Putin's write-up reminds me of this guy Grigory Margulis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigory_Margulis

Who was a math professor at Yale when I attend there back in the early 1990s.  He is a Fields medal winner.  I was told that his resume when he applied to various USA universities for a position was literally was just a one liner "Grigory Margulis, Moscow State University, Fields Medal 1978".  Yale was lucky to get him.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #134 on: March 19, 2018, 12:33:44 PM »

Gotta love the Tuvans for not being subtle at all. Over 90% turnout and over 90% Putin. There were also a couple federal subjects in the Caucasus that way, but it seems random that Tuva would be that blatant.

Well, Tuva or Tannu Tuva are majority Tuvans which are a branch of Mongols but speak a Turkic language so it its the ethnic enclave pattern.   Of course I do not recognize Tannu Tuva as being part of Russia.  I insists it is Chinese territory which we call 唐努烏梁海 (Tannu Uriankhai) which the Red Russia stole from us back in 1921 creating a puppet independent government before annexing it into USSR back in 1944.

How you feel about Tuva being part of Russia is completely irrelevant to the election, so please keep that to yourself.

Well, the post below which is part of this thread is represents a personal opinion on where Crimea belongs.  Not sure why I cannot weigh in on my view on where Tannu Uriankhai belongs.

Crimea has special place in many Russian's (even - democratically minded) hearts. My mother, for example. She is 91, and she voted for Yavlinsky with me today. But for her Khrushchev is an idiot,  who voluntarily gave Crimea to Ukraine, while it's "proper place" is to be part of Russia. For vast majority (80+%) of Russians it's the same.

Crimea relates very directly to Russian politics. Your Greater China fantasy doesn't. Its a derailment of the thread and you should keep that nonsense to Individual politics.
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Karpatsky
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« Reply #135 on: March 19, 2018, 02:34:40 PM »

Gotta love the Tuvans for not being subtle at all. Over 90% turnout and over 90% Putin. There were also a couple federal subjects in the Caucasus that way, but it seems random that Tuva would be that blatant.

Well, Tuva or Tannu Tuva are majority Tuvans which are a branch of Mongols but speak a Turkic language so it its the ethnic enclave pattern.   Of course I do not recognize Tannu Tuva as being part of Russia.  I insists it is Chinese territory which we call 唐努烏梁海 (Tannu Uriankhai) which the Red Russia stole from us back in 1921 creating a puppet independent government before annexing it into USSR back in 1944.
Do you consider Mongolia also Chinese territory?

You mean Outer Mongolia.  Yes. Of course.  Here is the ROC map.


Which for me is phase I.  Long term goal should be Chinese borders of 1820.  This is my computer desktop wallpaper


Wow wtf.

This is why Russia keeps so many tactical nuclear weapons.
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Frodo
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« Reply #136 on: March 19, 2018, 02:39:13 PM »

Gotta love the Tuvans for not being subtle at all. Over 90% turnout and over 90% Putin. There were also a couple federal subjects in the Caucasus that way, but it seems random that Tuva would be that blatant.

Well, Tuva or Tannu Tuva are majority Tuvans which are a branch of Mongols but speak a Turkic language so it its the ethnic enclave pattern.   Of course I do not recognize Tannu Tuva as being part of Russia.  I insists it is Chinese territory which we call 唐努烏梁海 (Tannu Uriankhai) which the Red Russia stole from us back in 1921 creating a puppet independent government before annexing it into USSR back in 1944.
Do you consider Mongolia also Chinese territory?

You mean Outer Mongolia.  Yes. Of course.  Here is the ROC map.



Which for me is phase I.  Long term goal should be Chinese borders of 1820.  This is my computer desktop wallpaper


----------------------------

Putin did open the door, so he has little reason to complain when China lays claim once again to its Qing Dynasty borders. 
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Karpatsky
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« Reply #137 on: March 19, 2018, 04:54:33 PM »

Gotta love the Tuvans for not being subtle at all. Over 90% turnout and over 90% Putin. There were also a couple federal subjects in the Caucasus that way, but it seems random that Tuva would be that blatant.

Well, Tuva or Tannu Tuva are majority Tuvans which are a branch of Mongols but speak a Turkic language so it its the ethnic enclave pattern.   Of course I do not recognize Tannu Tuva as being part of Russia.  I insists it is Chinese territory which we call 唐努烏梁海 (Tannu Uriankhai) which the Red Russia stole from us back in 1921 creating a puppet independent government before annexing it into USSR back in 1944.
Do you consider Mongolia also Chinese territory?

You mean Outer Mongolia.  Yes. Of course.  Here is the ROC map.

Which for me is phase I.  Long term goal should be Chinese borders of 1820.  This is my computer desktop wallpaper

----------------------------

Putin did open the door, so he has little reason to complain when China lays claim once again to its Qing Dynasty borders. 

Classic whataboutism. If you want to construct a civilized international system, you can't open the door of eye-for-an-eye punishment - otherwise next you'll be telling me why Korean claims on Manchuria are justified by Chinese land-grabbing in Primorsk.
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jaichind
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« Reply #138 on: March 19, 2018, 05:48:22 PM »


Eh, yes and no. State control of the the media is serious factor, but there is also evidence of serious vote manipulation, perhaps heavily influencing outcome; eg:








The same guy, Sergey Shpilkin, has the same analysis for 2018


It is clear that looking at these graphs and compared to 2012 there is decisively less fraud than in 2012.

Dmitry Kobak who came up with analysis for 2011 and 2012 and is generally anti-Putin in his 2012 findings
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.0741v2.pdf
Concluded that (https://kobak.livejournal.com/111535.html) turnout was really around 61%-62% and Putin really got  74-75%. 

One way or another it seems Putin won a real landslide majority AND had a strong positive swing from 2012.
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ag
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« Reply #139 on: March 20, 2018, 01:43:16 AM »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Yavlinsky. Though i understood fairly well, that everything was much more predetermined, then in 2012, when Prokhorov was rather serious candidate (especially - in capitals)

Just a question: why did you participate in this? What was the purpose?
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #140 on: March 20, 2018, 03:21:52 AM »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Yavlinsky. Though i understood fairly well, that everything was much more predetermined, then in 2012, when Prokhorov was rather serious candidate (especially - in capitals)

Just a question: why did you participate in this? What was the purpose?

Why not? Mainly to show that despite all propaganda on TV and other mass media, people who think and choose himlelf, and not as herd's part, still exist in Russia. And even in considerable numbers. After all - 77% for Putin, was lower then his support rating from such reasonably objective source as Levada center. Guys, i repeat 1000th time: you can't evaluate a country, where, until 1991, there wasn't even corrupted democracy, by standard "democratic criteria". It takes time. I will not live long enough to see "normal Democracy" in Russia (may be - only the very beginning), but my 16 year old son most likely will... Even if he stays here..
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ag
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« Reply #141 on: March 20, 2018, 12:03:30 PM »
« Edited: March 20, 2018, 12:10:39 PM by ag »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Yavlinsky. Though i understood fairly well, that everything was much more predetermined, then in 2012, when Prokhorov was rather serious candidate (especially - in capitals)

Just a question: why did you participate in this? What was the purpose?

Why not? Mainly to show that despite all propaganda on TV and other mass media, people who think and choose himlelf, and not as herd's part, still exist in Russia. And even in considerable numbers. After all - 77% for Putin, was lower then his support rating from such reasonably objective source as Levada center. Guys, i repeat 1000th time: you can't evaluate a country, where, until 1991, there wasn't even corrupted democracy, by standard "democratic criteria". It takes time. I will not live long enough to see "normal Democracy" in Russia (may be - only the very beginning), but my 16 year old son most likely will... Even if he stays here..

Why participate in a farce? There is no such thing as electoral politics in Russia, period. The only way one can participate in this without looking ridiculous is in a classic dissident manner: "Respect your own Constitution!" By all means, register as a candidate, as an observer, organise and participate in meetings, monitor what is going on, etc. It may be painful and dangerous - if you feel you do not want to do it, do not (I myself am a coward, I would not). But why vote for or otherwise deal with candidates, who explicitly got an approval for their candidacy in the presidential administration? What does this achieve, except create an impression that this profanation of an election is the norm?  How on earth is it bringing a democracy any closer. You are not making it more likely that your son would see actual democracy in Russia by participating in this farce: arguably, you are actually postponing that point, by increasing the regime stability.

As for "until 1991", this is simply ridiculous at this point. 1991 was 27 years ago - I remember, I was there. Dozens of countries have had reasonably successful democratic transitions since. I mean, Spain had not had anything like democracy till 1975 - there was no doubt that it had one long before 2002. Ditto Portugal (with a near-successful communist revolution tossed in to make transition more fun). Mexican democratic transition was barely starting in 1991 - it has had 2 electoral transitions between parties at the national presidential level since. At this point it is becoming like the old canard about the Mongol invasion: yes, it was horrible, but it was 800 years ago. Even Mongolia, BTW, has done a lot better on the democracy count since 1991 - and they are the Mongols. The fact is, Russia is not moving towards a democracy - has not been moving in that direction in some 20 years. Sustenance of fake institutions takes her away from this objective, not towards it.

I am not blaming Russia or Russians in general - that would be ridiculous. But by participating in this farce you are strengthening the regime. "Ah, he only got 72.12345 percent, and if you sum up all our nice guys we had 3.1415! You know what this means?! These are millions of people! May be, next time, if we are very nice, they would allow us another political party and approve a Duma member or two: imagine what speeches they would make on the floor! The people will wake up, when they hear Dunya Petrova explaining everything!" Look, I trust Dunya is a fine person, but all the people will learn if they see her on the floor of the Duma is that she has some good friends in the Kremlin and that, perhaps, if they get friends like this, they might get a Duma sinecure themselves. Conclusion: be good and you will be rewarded. It is not the TV propaganda that is the problem: it is the overall corruption of the public space. Well, you willingly participate in it yourself.
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Vosem
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« Reply #142 on: March 20, 2018, 12:32:09 PM »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Yavlinsky. Though i understood fairly well, that everything was much more predetermined, then in 2012, when Prokhorov was rather serious candidate (especially - in capitals)

Just a question: why did you participate in this? What was the purpose?

Hey, a warm welcome back to the forum for my fellow contrarian Russoanglohispanophone!
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ag
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« Reply #143 on: March 20, 2018, 12:34:46 PM »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Yavlinsky. Though i understood fairly well, that everything was much more predetermined, then in 2012, when Prokhorov was rather serious candidate (especially - in capitals)

Just a question: why did you participate in this? What was the purpose?

Hey, a warm welcome back to the forum for my fellow contrarian Russoanglohispanophone!

Get lost. I am not planning to participate in general discussions in any case.
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Vosem
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« Reply #144 on: March 20, 2018, 01:03:13 PM »
« Edited: March 25, 2018, 03:51:11 PM by Gustaf »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Yavlinsky. Though i understood fairly well, that everything was much more predetermined, then in 2012, when Prokhorov was rather serious candidate (especially - in capitals)

Just a question: why did you participate in this? What was the purpose?

Hey, a warm welcome back to the forum for my fellow contrarian Russoanglohispanophone!

Get lost. I am not planning to participate in general discussions in any case.

oh, alright, you too then
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ag
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« Reply #145 on: March 20, 2018, 01:08:30 PM »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Yavlinsky. Though i understood fairly well, that everything was much more predetermined, then in 2012, when Prokhorov was rather serious candidate (especially - in capitals)

Just a question: why did you participate in this? What was the purpose?

Hey, a warm welcome back to the forum for my fellow contrarian Russoanglohispanophone!

Get lost. I am not planning to participate in general discussions in any case.

oh, alright, fuсk you too then

Good. I like that attitude.
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Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan
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« Reply #146 on: March 20, 2018, 01:17:24 PM »

wew gurls, chill down
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #147 on: March 20, 2018, 01:26:18 PM »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Yavlinsky. Though i understood fairly well, that everything was much more predetermined, then in 2012, when Prokhorov was rather serious candidate (especially - in capitals)

Just a question: why did you participate in this? What was the purpose?

Why not? Mainly to show that despite all propaganda on TV and other mass media, people who think and choose himlelf, and not as herd's part, still exist in Russia. And even in considerable numbers. After all - 77% for Putin, was lower then his support rating from such reasonably objective source as Levada center. Guys, i repeat 1000th time: you can't evaluate a country, where, until 1991, there wasn't even corrupted democracy, by standard "democratic criteria". It takes time. I will not live long enough to see "normal Democracy" in Russia (may be - only the very beginning), but my 16 year old son most likely will... Even if he stays here..

Why participate in a farce? There is no such thing as electoral politics in Russia, period. The only way one can participate in this without looking ridiculous is in a classic dissident manner: "Respect your own Constitution!" By all means, register as a candidate, as an observer, organise and participate in meetings, monitor what is going on, etc. It may be painful and dangerous - if you feel you do not want to do it, do not (I myself am a coward, I would not). But why vote for or otherwise deal with candidates, who explicitly got an approval for their candidacy in the presidential administration? What does this achieve, except create an impression that this profanation of an election is the norm?  How on earth is it bringing a democracy any closer. You are not making it more likely that your son would see actual democracy in Russia by participating in this farce: arguably, you are actually postponing that point, by increasing the regime stability.

As for "until 1991", this is simply ridiculous at this point. 1991 was 27 years ago - I remember, I was there. Dozens of countries have had reasonably successful democratic transitions since. I mean, Spain had not had anything like democracy till 1975 - there was no doubt that it had one long before 2002. Ditto Portugal (with a near-successful communist revolution tossed in to make transition more fun). Mexican democratic transition was barely starting in 1991 - it has had 2 electoral transitions between parties at the national presidential level since. At this point it is becoming like the old canard about the Mongol invasion: yes, it was horrible, but it was 800 years ago. Even Mongolia, BTW, has done a lot better on the democracy count since 1991 - and they are the Mongols. The fact is, Russia is not moving towards a democracy - has not been moving in that direction in some 20 years. Sustenance of fake institutions takes her away from this objective, not towards it.

I am not blaming Russia or Russians in general - that would be ridiculous. But by participating in this farce you are strengthening the regime. "Ah, he only got 72.12345 percent, and if you sum up all our nice guys we had 3.1415! You know what this means?! These are millions of people! May be, next time, if we are very nice, they would allow us another political party and approve a Duma member or two: imagine what speeches they would make on the floor! The people will wake up, when they hear Dunya Petrova explaining everything!" Look, I trust Dunya is a fine person, but all the people will learn if they see her on the floor of the Duma is that she has some good friends in the Kremlin and that, perhaps, if they get friends like this, they might get a Duma sinecure themselves. Conclusion: be good and you will be rewarded. It is not the TV propaganda that is the problem: it is the overall corruption of the public space. Well, you willingly participate in it yourself.

Yes, i willingly participate, and WILL participate. As long as there is even slight possibility to show, that "sane people" exist in Russia - i will do it. BTW, most countries you mentioned as "making considerable progress to democracy rather quickly" had relatively long democratic periods at some moments in their history. Unlike Russia, which NEVER had such periods (except 1991-1999, to most extent). I told many times that historically Russian tradition is extremely conservative. The same can be said about main church, which increased it's influence since period of Communist rule,  army (important institute in Russia), and so on. So, again - IT WILL TAKE CONSIDERABLE TIME for democracy even to take more or less solid roots in Russia, as there is almost no basis for it in Russian society. The process will be slow, difficult and with considerble setbacks...
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warandwar
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« Reply #148 on: March 20, 2018, 01:33:02 PM »

Russia had some democracy from 1917 through the 20s. Wink
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #149 on: March 20, 2018, 01:37:27 PM »

Question for the Russian posters: who did you vote for?

Yavlinsky. Though i understood fairly well, that everything was much more predetermined, then in 2012, when Prokhorov was rather serious candidate (especially - in capitals)

Just a question: why did you participate in this? What was the purpose?

Hey, a warm welcome back to the forum for my fellow contrarian Russoanglohispanophone!

Get lost. I am not planning to participate in general discussions in any case.

oh, alright, fuсk you too then

Good. I like that attitude.

Ah, just like old times.

Not sure if you'd be interested, but there's a spinoff forum now with, erm, less restrictions on what you can and can't post in an argument. Thought I might as well ask Smiley
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