SB 2018-158: Free Higher Education for Atlasia Act (Passed)
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  SB 2018-158: Free Higher Education for Atlasia Act (Passed)
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Author Topic: SB 2018-158: Free Higher Education for Atlasia Act (Passed)  (Read 4335 times)
PPT Spiral
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« on: February 06, 2018, 01:29:29 AM »
« edited: March 31, 2018, 10:41:10 AM by Princeps Senatus Lumine »

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Sponsor: Pericles
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Pericles
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« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2018, 01:59:23 PM »

There are three big pluses to this bill. First-it gives all Atlasians access to higher education, which is increasingly a necessity in today's world. In the long-term this will create a better educated and more prosperous society. Secondly, it does so while being fiscally responsible and funded, which was apparently the main thing the Federalists thought was missing from the previous bill. Thirdly, it has the bonus of reforming Wall Street and reducing the risk of another crash and Great Recession. Atlasia needs this bill. Congress should swiftly pass it and he President should sign it into law. And of course if I'm elected President I'll enthusiastically sign it into law.
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Pericles
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 03:41:44 AM »

Does anybody have any comments or amendments to make this bill even better?
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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 07:43:50 AM »

Can we see some calculations from the GM or Deputy GM to check if these funding measures will be sufficient enough to fund this program.
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cinyc
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 11:56:48 AM »

I oppose the very idea of “free” higher education and cannot support this bill in any form. There’s no such thing as “free”. Somebody has to pay for it - and why should the plumbers and tradesman of the world, who don’t go to traditonal schools, subsidize people getting useless liberal arts degrees?
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Pericles
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 01:42:53 PM »

I oppose the very idea of “free” higher education and cannot support this bill in any form. There’s no such thing as “free”. Somebody has to pay for it - and why should the plumbers and tradesman of the world, who don’t go to traditonal schools, subsidize people getting useless liberal arts degrees?

What about primary and secondary education then? Why not just privatise that? They're increasingly similar in that higher education is also a necessity or close to it. Admittedly they're not the same, but it does people and our country a real disservice to be denied higher education. And furthermore if you look at the funding I doubt many plumbers or tradesmen will be affected.
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cinyc
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 06:33:45 PM »

What about primary and secondary education then? Why not just privatise that? They're increasingly similar in that higher education is also a necessity or close to it. Admittedly they're not the same, but it does people and our country a real disservice to be denied higher education. And furthermore if you look at the funding I doubt many plumbers or tradesmen will be affected.

No, higher education isn’t a necessity or close to it. Millions of Atlasians make excellent livings without higher education - including plumbers and other tradespeople, who will be taxed to pay for people getting useless liberal arts degrees that have no application in the real world. We need more plumbers, not philosophy majors. Why should we subsidize philosophy majors at the expense of plumbers and tradesmen?
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Pericles
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 07:27:50 PM »

What about primary and secondary education then? Why not just privatise that? They're increasingly similar in that higher education is also a necessity or close to it. Admittedly they're not the same, but it does people and our country a real disservice to be denied higher education. And furthermore if you look at the funding I doubt many plumbers or tradesmen will be affected.

No, higher education isn’t a necessity or close to it. Millions of Atlasians make excellent livings without higher education - including plumbers and other tradespeople, who will be taxed to pay for people getting useless liberal arts degrees that have no application in the real world. We need more plumbers, not philosophy majors. Why should we subsidize philosophy majors at the expense of plumbers and tradesmen?

If you read the bill, you'll find that plumbers and tradesmen aren't the ones paying more for this program. This program makes the tax system fairer in order to let all Atlasians have greater opportunities and the chance to get a quality education and a path to the middle class. And those who don't have that opportunity are increasingly losing out in today's society.
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cinyc
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 09:47:30 PM »

If you read the bill, you'll find that plumbers and tradesmen aren't the ones paying more for this program. This program makes the tax system fairer in order to let all Atlasians have greater opportunities and the chance to get a quality education and a path to the middle class. And those who don't have that opportunity are increasingly losing out in today's society.

If you think banks are just going to be charged a "risk" fee without passing that on to their customers, I have a bridge to sell you. And some of the people who make more than $5,000,000 are college dropouts, like Bill Gates.
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Pericles
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« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 10:07:31 PM »

If you read the bill, you'll find that plumbers and tradesmen aren't the ones paying more for this program. This program makes the tax system fairer in order to let all Atlasians have greater opportunities and the chance to get a quality education and a path to the middle class. And those who don't have that opportunity are increasingly losing out in today's society.

If you think banks are just going to be charged a "risk" fee without passing that on to their customers, I have a bridge to sell you. And some of the people who make more than $5,000,000 are college dropouts, like Bill Gates.

The banks have plenty if money and the risk fee is well targeted. And most college dropouts aren't Bill Gates sadly and generally college is an advantage. We should give people the opportunity to be able to make the choice without denying it arbitrarily to those who are less wealthy.
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2018, 02:29:45 AM »

Can we see some calculations from the GM or Deputy GM to check if these funding measures will be sufficient enough to fund this program.

On it.
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Pericles
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2018, 03:08:39 AM »

If there is greater funding needed depending on the level I can also change capital gains and the estate tax.
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 06:04:15 PM »

Given that the SEC is free to determine the risk fee between 1% and 8%, I've created a low estimate where the SEC charges entirely 1% and a high estimate where the 8% is entirely charged. The actual income would be somewhere in between, once against depending on the SEC's decision. The figures are annual.

Funding:

High estimate - $5.61bn
Low estimate - $4.36bn

Cost:

$10.77bn
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Pericles
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 11:26:02 PM »

Given that the SEC is free to determine the risk fee between 1% and 8%, I've created a low estimate where the SEC charges entirely 1% and a high estimate where the 8% is entirely charged. The actual income would be somewhere in between, once against depending on the SEC's decision. The figures are annual.

Funding:

High estimate - $5.61bn
Low estimate - $4.36bn

Cost:

$10.77bn

What about the 4% surcharge on incomes of $5 million and above? Did you factor that in?
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2018, 01:27:30 PM »

Given that the SEC is free to determine the risk fee between 1% and 8%, I've created a low estimate where the SEC charges entirely 1% and a high estimate where the 8% is entirely charged. The actual income would be somewhere in between, once against depending on the SEC's decision. The figures are annual.

Funding:

High estimate - $5.61bn
Low estimate - $4.36bn

Cost:

$10.77bn

What about the 4% surcharge on incomes of $5 million and above? Did you factor that in?

Yep.
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Pericles
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 02:07:17 PM »

Given that the SEC is free to determine the risk fee between 1% and 8%, I've created a low estimate where the SEC charges entirely 1% and a high estimate where the 8% is entirely charged. The actual income would be somewhere in between, once against depending on the SEC's decision. The figures are annual.

Funding:

High estimate - $5.61bn
Low estimate - $4.36bn

Cost:

$10.77bn

What about the 4% surcharge on incomes of $5 million and above? Did you factor that in?

Yep.

Ok I'll increase funding in the coming days.
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#TheShadowyAbyss
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 11:21:28 PM »

What is the current status with this plan?
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Jeppe
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 11:56:10 PM »

Arbitrary cut-off amounts is not a sound economic policy, a sliding scale works best for these types of legislation, because somebody whose family is making $131,000 would get no funding, while somebody whose family is making $129,000 would save potentially tens of thousands on tuition. It would encourage tax evasion and disincentivize parents or individuals from taking raises or promotions if it comes at the cost of losing the student's tuition benefits.

A sliding scale subsidy system would mitigate many of these problems, such as those with a family income of over $70,000 receiving 100% of tuition paid for, and slowly adjusting it to $130,000 being cut off from that point.
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Pericles
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2018, 12:55:27 AM »

Arbitrary cut-off amounts is not a sound economic policy, a sliding scale works best for these types of legislation, because somebody whose family is making $131,000 would get no funding, while somebody whose family is making $129,000 would save potentially tens of thousands on tuition. It would encourage tax evasion and disincentivize parents or individuals from taking raises or promotions if it comes at the cost of losing the student's tuition benefits.

A sliding scale subsidy system would mitigate many of these problems, such as those with a family income of over $70,000 receiving 100% of tuition paid for, and slowly adjusting it to $130,000 being cut off from that point.

That's actually a good idea, I should amend the legislation to do that.
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YE
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2018, 01:13:28 AM »

Arbitrary cut-off amounts is not a sound economic policy, a sliding scale works best for these types of legislation, because somebody whose family is making $131,000 would get no funding, while somebody whose family is making $129,000 would save potentially tens of thousands on tuition. It would encourage tax evasion and disincentivize parents or individuals from taking raises or promotions if it comes at the cost of losing the student's tuition benefits.

A sliding scale subsidy system would mitigate many of these problems, such as those with a family income of over $70,000 receiving 100% of tuition paid for, and slowly adjusting it to $130,000 being cut off from that point.

That's actually a good idea, I should amend the legislation to do that.

If we're getting to the point where we're arguing over a sliding scale that only affects 10% of people, might as well just make it universal.

Or you could just say a family has to pay the same amount of money they're over 130K on. So someone making 135K has to pay 5K, for instance.
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Pericles
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2018, 02:41:07 PM »

Amendment
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I intend to also amend d to exempt housing but I want the wording to be done well and so would appreciate constructive input.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2018, 02:59:42 PM »

Senators have 24 hours to object to Senator Pericles' amendment.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2018, 02:46:30 AM »

The amendment is adopted.

I'm not expecting there to be any more official business tomorrow, so that's probably it for me. It's been nice serving in the Senate with you all!
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Pericles
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« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2018, 03:02:27 AM »

The amendment is adopted.

I'm not expecting there to be any more official business tomorrow, so that's probably it for me. It's been nice serving in the Senate with you all!

I'd just like to say I'll miss you as a Senator and you've done a great job-all Fremontians and Atlasians should be very happy with your service.
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Lumine
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« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2018, 10:15:33 PM »

Senators, where do we stand on this?

Much like the Atlasian Drone Regulation Act, I cannot support this bill as presented. I would necessarily have to echo several of the concerns made by cinyc in the past, particularly regarding cost and means (which I do find a bit irresponsible or too idealistic in outlook). There is also the fact that universities are far from the sole option for the future, and even further, that having ever increasing numbers of college graduates is not necessarily sound when it is rather evident there already is a significant degree of oversaturation.

I myself am not convinced it is a good idea to pursue such policies when already thousands of college graduates in Atlasia cannot find a job in what they studied for, particularly when accounting for the cost and for other priorities which might be more efficient than this particular (and rather ambitious) subsidy.
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