Fair Redistricting (PA aftermath)

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Accommodation of some sort is necessary for me since I lack DRA access.

[Strudelcutie4427]

Accommodation of some sort is necessary for me since I lack DRA access.

If you want I can draw it on DRA for you after you do it on KHW. Just let me know which counties you want to split/pick up for population equality. I’d draw those in the way that idealizes compactness in a dem way since you’re playing the Dems role

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

First plan:
ME-01: York, Cumberland, Sagadhoc, Lincoln, Androscoggin + Litchfield and Monmouth in Kennebec County
663,985
ME-02: Everything else, including the rest of Kennebec County
664,376

Second plan:
ME-01: York, Cumberland, Androscoggin, Oxford, all of Franklin except New Sharon, Farmington, Industry, New Vineyard, and Wyman
664,176
ME-02: everything else, including New Sharon, Farmington, Industry, New Vineyard, and Wyman
664,185
No town splits in either plan

[cvparty]

What happens if the panel is unable to secure 3 votes for any map, with one Pub and one Dem voting for it?

I suppose any map with just 3/5 would pass then
and if no map that anyone created is considered fair by 3/5...well there's probably a problem in one of the panel members

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Accommodation of some sort is necessary for me since I lack DRA access.

If you want I can draw it on DRA for you after you do it on KHW. Just let me know which counties you want to split/pick up for population equality. I’d draw those in the way that idealizes compactness in a dem way since you’re playing the Dems role

Thanks.

[LimoLiberal]

I mean, I'm a Democrat. I can roleplay as a Republican if people demand it, but I'm firmly against R gerrymandering and think conservative defenses of it are pathetic.

[LimoLiberal]

How do I post my map here? I have the screenshot and PVIs ready, but I can't copy it from my desktop. I'm on mac.

Edit: I figured it out.

[muon2]

What happens if the panel is unable to secure 3 votes for any map, with one Pub and one Dem voting for it?

I suppose any map with just 3/5 would pass then
and if no map that anyone created is considered fair by 3/5...well there's probably a problem in one of the panel members

One mechanism is to use a numeric measure of the non-mandatory criteria, such as in the muon rules. Then if no plan gets 3/5 with bipartisan support the plan with the best score wins.

[cvparty]

How do I post my map here? I have the screenshot and PVIs ready, but I can't copy it from my desktop. I'm on mac.

upload it to an image hosting site or the gallery https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?action=gallery

also I'll keep you as the Democrat I'm not sure about what the others want though

[LimoLiberal]

Here is my map. If anybody thought I was going to act like a R on the commission, here you go.




ME-1 goes from D+7.86 to D+5.06
ME-2 goes from R+1.98 to D+1.24

Two county splits, Somerset and Penobscot, although something like 98% of the Somerset population is in ME-1.

No town splits.

If you want anymore stats, please ask.

[Strudelcutie4427]

Accommodation of some sort is necessary for me since I lack DRA access.

If you want I can draw it on DRA for you after you do it on KHW. Just let me know which counties you want to split/pick up for population equality. I’d draw those in the way that idealizes compactness in a dem way since you’re playing the Dems role

Thanks.

I’ll PM you your described map later tonight when I get home so you can post it under your bane

[cvparty]

lol guys don't post maps until the panel is complete and the rules are finalized, I'm going to make a new megathread for all the states when we officially start anyway

[Strudelcutie4427]

lol guys don't post maps until the panel is complete and the rules are finalized, I'm going to make a new megathread for all the states when we officially start anyway

Gotcha. I have my Maine saved so I’ll be ready for that. What’re we missing on the panel rn? Just one more republican?

[Torie]

What happens if the panel is unable to secure 3 votes for any map, with one Pub and one Dem voting for it?

I suppose any map with just 3/5 would pass then
and if no map that anyone created is considered fair by 3/5...well there's probably a problem in one of the panel members

One mechanism is to use a numeric measure of the non-mandatory criteria, such as in the muon rules. Then if no plan gets 3/5 with bipartisan support the plan with the best score wins.

That would tend to end up with the best scoring map always winning (if the panel folks know how to score well), unless a Pub and a Dem both like a lower scoring map better (more likely in the real world where bipartisan gerrymanders are popular with incumbent protection plans, than here). I suggest some mechanism to introduce uncertainty and risk for both parties, if they cannot compromise on a map. For example, that could be a coin flip, or some third party pretending to be judge, selecting one of the two maps that got the most votes. If you go the judge route, I would volunteer for that if desired, which would mean that I would not submit any maps myself to the panel, nor comment on any of the maps submitted. The judge should be a different person from the advisor/referee for the panel I would think. The duty of the judge would be decide which map best hews to the rules that the panel has agreed to in advance, whatever they may be.

[cvparty]

lol guys don't post maps until the panel is complete and the rules are finalized, I'm going to make a new megathread for all the states when we officially start anyway

Gotcha. I have my Maine saved so I’ll be ready for that. What’re we missing on the panel rn? Just one more republican?

yes, also we need to make decisions on VRA and the submission time frame (I currently have it at 2 days but whatever y'all want)

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

We should either not have VRA for purpose of this exercise, or have it be a factor that is deemphasized, but still be present.

[Torie]

We should either not have VRA for purpose of this exercise, or have it be a factor that is deemphasized, but still be present.

You will need Muon2's advice on VRA matters sometimes, and that process might delay matters. Two days is tight with that element in play.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I guess then we should either a) ditch VRA entirely or b) take a creative, more simple third route - like, say, deemphasizing it but supporting coalition districts as part of the criteria.

[cvparty]

We should either not have VRA for purpose of this exercise, or have it be a factor that is deemphasized, but still be present.

I feel like considering the safeguards that the other factors already impose and the advantage VRA creates for the GOP, it's not really necessary. plus I think this project is meant to be quick so it'd also be cumbersome if we had it. I do have in the rules that districts' constituents should be demographically similar

You will need Muon2's advice on VRA matters sometimes, and that process might delay matters. Two days is tight with that element in play.

two days is just for map submission, the selection will take another couple days

[Strudelcutie4427]

We should either not have VRA for purpose of this exercise, or have it be a factor that is deemphasized, but still be present.

I feel like considering the safeguards that the other factors already impose and the advantage VRA creates for the GOP, it's not really necessary. plus I think this project is meant to be quick so it'd also be cumbersome if we had it. I do have in the rules that districts' constituents should be demographically similar

You will need Muon2's advice on VRA matters sometimes, and that process might delay matters. Two days is tight with that element in play.

two days is just for map submission, the selection will take another couple days

Or if worst comes to worst we just make a list of how many VRA seats should be in each state. That’s the part I always have trouble figuring out

[Torie]

We should either not have VRA for purpose of this exercise, or have it be a factor that is deemphasized, but still be present.

I feel like considering the safeguards that the other factors already impose and the advantage VRA creates for the GOP, it's not really necessary. plus I think this project is meant to be quick so it'd also be cumbersome if we had it. I do have in the rules that districts' constituents should be demographically similar

You will need Muon2's advice on VRA matters sometimes, and that process might delay matters. Two days is tight with that element in play.

two days is just for map submission, the selection will take another couple days

Understanding the VRA's application in a specific context might influence the maps that are drawn. All of this only applies to a few states however (well maybe 10 where the answer is potentially not obvious), PA being one of them.

[jimrtex]

What happens if the panel is unable to secure 3 votes for any map, with one Pub and one Dem voting for it?

It could follow a procedure like that proposed for Ohio.

[Strudelcutie4427]

Another thing I’d propose is to PM the maps to one person who can then post all of them on a thread with a poll for the other members to discus and vote on and if there isn’t a majority vote on the best map the decision gets kicked back to the 5 panel members who would draw a compromise map

[cvparty]

Another thing I’d propose is to PM the maps to one person who can then post all of them on a thread with a poll for the other members to discus and vote on and if there isn’t a majority vote on the best map the decision gets kicked back to the 5 panel members who would draw a compromise map

mm, I do think we'll be able to agree on at least one map for each state though. and we should start by monday morning, but we still need one more panel member...honestly they can be either a D or R and we can just have Limo be the opposite, I'm sure he'll understand lolz

[muon2]

Since this is a redo of 2010, for VRA compliance one can look at the current number of minority districts in each state and use that as a baseline.