Fair Redistricting (PA aftermath)

[Strudelcutie4427]

Okay, I feel like this would be a fun project. First I'm gonna need 2 democrats and 1 more republican plus an independent. We can try to run a mock bipartisan committee on redistricting in the gerrymandered states. For a map to pass, they would need 3/5 votes. After going through all the submissions we can put together a new map for the country. If anyone would like to join, please comment below! First come first serve, so again 2 Dems, 1 Rep (im already here) and 1 Ind. We can take up any of the states that have more than 1 district since I think all of them could be a little neater

[Strudelcutie4427]

I think this would be more appropriate in the Political Geography board, where we've done this sort of thing before.

Ohh I didnt know it was done already. lol. Are you able to move it there?

[Strudelcutie4427]

So the first question is does the panel draw the map or do they select from publicly-submitted plans (ie including posters who aren't on the panel)?

The second question is what criteria will the panel use to evaluate plans?

Why not both? I.e. the public can propose a map but the panel can also draw and choose a map.

Yeah we can do both. I like that idea, it seems a bit more real. So right now we have myself as the republican, LimoLiberal and TimTurner as the Dems, CVparty as the Indy, and muon, you wanna be the other Rep?

[Strudelcutie4427]

Anyone got a suggestion for which state we should do first? I'm thinking we maybe do one a day until we do huge states like Texas and Cali

[Strudelcutie4427]

Anyone got a suggestion for which state we should do first? I'm thinking we maybe do one a day until we do huge states like Texas and Cali

If you want it realistic and want public input, you should have enough time for the public to react to plans and suggest changes. I've also found in the past that panelists will have RL interruptions and daily votes may be difficult. I know I have such interruptions.

Agreed there. I know I usually only do these early on weekends or late on weekdays. We can just pick a state and wait til all 5 proposals are set discussed and voted on

[Strudelcutie4427]

So what state do we want to start with?

we could do ME —> work southwest toward CA
or
smallest —> largest

Im in favor of the ME-CA plan, provided we get extra time to do states like New York, Illinois, Floirda, and Texas

[Strudelcutie4427]

So the first question is does the panel draw the map or do they select from publicly-submitted plans (ie including posters who aren't on the panel)?

The second question is what criteria will the panel use to evaluate plans?

hmm maybe
1) have a thread for each state where anyone can propose a map
2) each committee member selects 1 or 2 maps
3) the committee votes whether to approve each of these maps (3/5 needed for a pass)
4) the remaining maps are ranked (à la STV) and the one with most votes is the winning map

as for criteria (ranked by importance)
1) has contiguous districts (water contiguity allowed, but should be connected by something like a bridge)
2) population deviation is within 0.5%
2) districts are reasonably compact
3) districts are representative of the state’s overall partisan composition in a neutral cycle where reasonably possible
4) county/town splits are kept small and reasonable (exceptions are New England where counties don’t really matter, and large counties/towns where it’s kind of silly to require that they be fully within one district)

This sounds good. I would also add that each map submitted should have the PVIs for all districts in the state. We'll start each thread by posting the current PVIs of the district for comparison.

I like his plan too. If possible, I'd say that counties should not be split solely for partisan reasons, unless for things such as population count or to make VRA districts

[Strudelcutie4427]

So what state do we want to start with?

we could do ME —> work southwest toward CA
or
smallest —> largest

ME, NH, MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ, PA, MD, VA, NC, WV, SC, OH, GA, FL, MI, IN, KY, TN, AL, WI, IL, MS, MO to LA, NE to TX, CO, NM, ID, UT, AZ, NV, WA to CA, then HI?
Or we could do this order but exclude states with more than 20 CDs, doing them all last.

That works good! So we'll all start off with Maine. I drew this one up in about 3 minutes so its a nice easy state to start out with. I only split Kennebec for population equality. Population deviation is only 424, and the PVIs are D+7 for the first one and R+1 for the second. Essentially no change from the real map, other than contracting the 1st more SW to take in the areas close to I-95 and the I-295 spur. For New England, Ill be using roads more often than county lines since counties dont really matter in New England, given the dynamic of its towns (besides Maine)

[Strudelcutie4427]

Yeah we can do both. I like that idea, it seems a bit more real. So right now we have myself as the republican, LimoLiberal and TimTurner as the Dems, CVparty as the Indy, and muon, you wanna be the other Rep?

This is your thread to do what you like with, and as a mod I've been one of his biggest defenders, but.... LimoLiberal as a Dem? Are you really sure you want to do that? He's admitted he was concern trolling in December.

If he wants to play the part of the Republican i wouldnt mind since we have a vacancy and i feel like it'd be easier to fill a dem spot than a rep spot

[Strudelcutie4427]

Yeah we can do both. I like that idea, it seems a bit more real. So right now we have myself as the republican, LimoLiberal and TimTurner as the Dems, CVparty as the Indy, and muon, you wanna be the other Rep?

This is your thread to do what you like with, and as a mod I've been one of his biggest defenders, but.... LimoLiberal as a Dem? Are you really sure you want to do that? He's admitted he was concern trolling in December.

If he wants to play the part of the Republican i wouldnt mind since we have a vacancy and i feel like it'd be easier to fill a dem spot than a rep spot

You can also make the voting rule require that of the three votes needed there is at least one D and one R which should force more bipartisan support.

Thats a good idea too. That would essentially make it so the more partisan ones dont get through. I feel like they really should do this in real life

[Strudelcutie4427]

Accommodation of some sort is necessary for me since I lack DRA access.

If you want I can draw it on DRA for you after you do it on KHW. Just let me know which counties you want to split/pick up for population equality. I’d draw those in the way that idealizes compactness in a dem way since you’re playing the Dems role

[Strudelcutie4427]

Accommodation of some sort is necessary for me since I lack DRA access.

If you want I can draw it on DRA for you after you do it on KHW. Just let me know which counties you want to split/pick up for population equality. I’d draw those in the way that idealizes compactness in a dem way since you’re playing the Dems role

Thanks.

I’ll PM you your described map later tonight when I get home so you can post it under your bane

[Strudelcutie4427]

lol guys don't post maps until the panel is complete and the rules are finalized, I'm going to make a new megathread for all the states when we officially start anyway

Gotcha. I have my Maine saved so I’ll be ready for that. What’re we missing on the panel rn? Just one more republican?

[Strudelcutie4427]

We should either not have VRA for purpose of this exercise, or have it be a factor that is deemphasized, but still be present.

I feel like considering the safeguards that the other factors already impose and the advantage VRA creates for the GOP, it's not really necessary. plus I think this project is meant to be quick so it'd also be cumbersome if we had it. I do have in the rules that districts' constituents should be demographically similar

You will need Muon2's advice on VRA matters sometimes, and that process might delay matters. Two days is tight with that element in play.

two days is just for map submission, the selection will take another couple days

Or if worst comes to worst we just make a list of how many VRA seats should be in each state. That’s the part I always have trouble figuring out

[Strudelcutie4427]

Another thing I’d propose is to PM the maps to one person who can then post all of them on a thread with a poll for the other members to discus and vote on and if there isn’t a majority vote on the best map the decision gets kicked back to the 5 panel members who would draw a compromise map

[Strudelcutie4427]

To add to rule questions, how much weight is given to keeping counties intact in New England? CT has no county government, but ME does. Is chopping a New England town a greater penalty than chopping a county there?

Here's another. All other criteria equal, SCOTUS says that the plan with less population inequality rules. Does that apply here?

In New England counties don’t matter in MA, NH,  RI, and CT. But splitting towns is a big no in New England unless necessary. Although Boston can be split. Other large cities (Providence, Worcester, New Gaven etc)  are okay to split but they shouldn’t be an issue. Boston is the only city that comes close to a CD on its own

[Strudelcutie4427]

are we doing this tomorrow or no lol

I think so. Im guessing there will be a new thread up for Maine tomorrow, unless its all done on this one

[Strudelcutie4427]

I tried to move it along by giving the panel something to practice on earlier today - the panel rules. None have even voted on them yet, and the only two who commented on them didn't agree. I'm not sure if you all want any organization to your panel and submissions.

I vote to approve the rules. That should be 3/5 majority

[Strudelcutie4427]

Here’s one of all of New England just for reference. They aren’t labeled but in Maine the towns usually have slants, curves, and other irregular shapes while the very small thinly populated townships are the endless sea of squares in the large northern counties and also in Hancock/Washington

[Strudelcutie4427]

and you can't split south oxford in DRA anyway...

Actually I showed above that you can. But whether the Leips map is accurate or not, pretending that it is, makes total sense to me. Looking for other maps on the internet does not. That still leaves the question, as to whether a participant can chop a voting district, in order to avoid a town chop, or to take in just one of several towns that are in the voting district.

It is odd that Leaps calls Albany an unorganized township, while you say it is a genuine organized town, with the larger South Oxford entity the real UT. But if the Leips map rules, and you say assume any designation of UT thereon, as being no different from where it says "Town," than that puts that matter to bed.

oh you're right I was looking at the map wrong. I think you should just use the voting districts, some do contain parts of different towns but that's the understood limitation in DRA. So I wouldn't complicate things and try to split the district. Just try to keep towns together to your ability within DRA. And no Albany is an unorganized township, South Oxford is an unorganized territory, there's no municipal government.

So one uses the voting districts, they cannot be chopped, and for whether or not you have chopped a municipal unit, just compare the lines of the voting districts, to the "town" lines on the Leaps map, and whatever that indicates, is what matters, and nothing else. Right?

wait, no, in your example there isn't a district that contains fragments of multiple towns. There are combinations of towns but it doesn't divide any. (South Oxford is UT so not a town) So I don't think there should be a problem.

Voting districts shouldn’t be an issue to use. Most of these towns are so small that they’re combined with other towns. The only ones we should avoid splitting are the towns with more than one precinct (Portland, Bangor, Lewiston, etc)

[Strudelcutie4427]

I am a bit confused about what how we are proceeding now in regards to procedures. Could someone in the know give me a rundown?
The impression I get is that we've split the US into 4 bits and we're running those concurrently?

We’re running several at the same time I think just to save time. We just need your vote on the NH one in the north east thread and I think we’re allowed to start on the first States in the other regions