Who/What bare the most responsibility for the loss of Hillary Clinton?
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  Who/What bare the most responsibility for the loss of Hillary Clinton?
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Question: ?
#1
Hillary Clinton
 
#2
Bill Clinton
 
#3
Donald Trump
 
#4
Tim Kaine
 
#5
Mike Pence
 
#6
Bernie Sanders
 
#7
Jil Stein
 
#8
Julian Assange/Wikileaks
 
#9
Vladimir Putin
 
#10
Debbie Wasserman Schultz/ the DNC leadership
 
#11
Robbie Mook
 
#12
James Comey
 
#13
Barack Obama
 
#14
Fox News
 
#15
The New York Times
 
#16
Sexism
 
#17
Whitelash
 
#18
Joe Biden
 
#19
Anthony Weiner
 
#20
Fake News
 
#21
Other
 
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Author Topic: Who/What bare the most responsibility for the loss of Hillary Clinton?  (Read 4267 times)
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CrabCake
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« on: February 21, 2018, 03:01:30 PM »

?
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Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 04:38:31 PM »

Herself.  I get that Trump got some Democrats in Wisconsin to vote Republican.  But the fact that it was even close tells you a lot about Hillary.
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bagelman
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 04:55:59 PM »

Bare the most responsibility by far:

Hillary Clinton

Bare some responsibility:

Trump/Pence, Tim Kaine, DWC and the DNC, Robbie Mook, Anthony Weiner, President Obama
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2018, 06:48:52 PM »

The 8-year cycle.
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AtorBoltox
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2018, 07:51:29 PM »

James Comey pushed enough undecided voters into the Trump camp to give him the win, but it's Hillary's fault it was even close to begin with
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JG
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 07:59:05 PM »

James Comey pushed enough undecided voters into the Trump camp to give him the win, but it's Hillary's fault it was even close to begin with

While I do think Hillary had a big role in her loss, the fondamentals were pointing to a very close race, maybe even with a slight Republican edge.
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America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗
TexArkana
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 08:08:27 PM »

Hillary herself, followed by Robbie Mook.
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Lord Admirale
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 11:20:28 PM »

Hillary, Kaine, Sanders, Stein, Assange/Wikileaks, Putin, DWS, Comey, and a godawful campaign strategy (Other)
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 10:49:40 PM »
« Edited: February 22, 2018, 10:55:22 PM by L.D. Smith, Aggie! It's Real Expenses Again »

Minor shrapnel: Obama, DWS/DNC, Fake News, Sexism, Robbie Mook

Major factors: James Comey, Donald Trump, Hillary herself
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Da2017
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2018, 11:06:19 PM »
« Edited: February 22, 2018, 11:12:33 PM by Da2017 »

James Comey. The Comey letter did have an impact.I think without it she might of squeaked by barely. Russia and Wikileaks was drip drip drip. She was unlucky the news was focused on her in the last week. Whoever was making headlines loses in the polls. Still she should never of been in danger of losing in the first place,
Map without Comey letter.
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Illini Moderate
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2018, 01:50:31 PM »

Hillary herself is ultimately responsible. She chose to give the paid speeches and to use a private email server. Both of which were incredibly unwise politically and cost her dearly in both the primary and the general election. She was the candidate. She made the dumb decisions.

In addition, I don't understand how any logical person can say that Russia and fake news did not play a huge role. It is a FACT that two years prior to the election Russian operatives had troll farms spreading propaganda and disinformation via social media.

Originally the intention was to undermine American's faith in Washington and the political system. This in turn helped exacerbate the already existing "anti establishment" attitude displayed by the public. Hillary being a former First Lady, Senator, and Secretary of State was obviously negatively affected by this.

Later once the primaries began, Russia began the next phase, which was to boost specific anti establishment candidates (Bernie and Trump) and attack their respective opponents (Hillary, Cruz, Rubio, etc..)

The DNC hack was conducted by Russians and then the discoveries were provided to Wikileaks who coordinated the "drip drip" release to occur during moments of highest impact (right before the DNC, the night of the P*ssy tape). This helped to not only derail the momentum of the Clinton campaign, but to help soften any damage Trump received from his gaffes and scandals.

Finally, the distribution of propaganda and disinformation via social media was implemented in order to depress Democratic turnout for Clinton. This was done in different ways. There were pages, memes, and fake graphics used to boost third party candidates such as Stein by impersonating disaffected left wingers. These bots and trolls would falsely portray minority groups and advocates, who would insist that Clinton was a "traitor" of the  left and that voters should choose the "true progressive" in Stein. They would also often use Bernie's image to sway his primary supporters against turning out for Clinton.

There were also many "MAGA trolls" who would help boost turnout for Trump by spreading viral memes and hashtags such as #lockherup or #Hillaryforprison. These trolls also often spread misleading and false information about Clinton. (Examples include memes insisting Clinton called nurses "glorified maids" and conspiracies about Hillary being a serial killer.) A Russian who worked for one of these organizations described the comments and memes as pure propaganda that was thought to be so ridiculous and clearly false that they would never work in Russia, however they clearly did on the American public.

It is completely ridiculous to insist that a two year long smear campaign organized by the Russians, which specifically targeted swing state voters was not at all effective. On Facebook alone, it is estimated that up to 126 million people viewed posts planted by the Russians. Twitter found over 30,000 automated accounts with possible Russian links that shared over 1.4 million tweets which were viewed nearly 300 million times.

To deny that this had a significant effect on the outcome of the election is just pure denial. While it cannot be said that it actually SWUNG the election, it should still be considered a possibility. However that is not the point. The point is that a foreign power has been PROVEN TO HAVE INTERFERED in our democracy and many in this country (including the President) don't believe that its a serious issue as long as it got their candidate elected. This isn't being pointed out to discredit Trump or his victory. This is a matter of national security and should be treated as such.

SORRY FOR THE LONG POST RANT OVER
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Alabama_Indy10
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2018, 02:34:55 PM »

Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2018, 05:45:40 PM »

Plenty of factors could have been enough by themselves to tip the election to Trump:

-Hillary being a bad candidate
-Hillary's campaign being tone deaf
-Democrats struggling to connect with voters
-Russian interference
-Actual fake news
-Xenophobia/sexism
-Media incompetence

But I think what caused her loss most of all was a combination of anti-intellectualism and stubbornness. Trump, who disdains reading, learning new things, and acknowledging that he doesn't know everything, is wrong sometimes, and that sometimes other people who are experts on a subject know better than he does, is the embodiment of anti-intellectualism, and many people wanted a way to "stick it to" the scientists, teachers, and everyone else they considered "elitist". Add in a bit of stubbornness, and the willingness many people have to bite their noses off to spite their face ("I'd rather vote for Donald Trump than a (D)emocrat!" or "I'll vote for Trump if it shows the establishment/those liberals what's what!")

A lot of politics these days is much more about pissing off "the other side" and seeing more red/blue on the map than actually accomplishing anything. While Democrats are guilty of this to an extent as well, I think this election showed just how stubborn most Republicans are in their partisanship. If Republicans were poised with the choice of peace and prosperity for the entire world and seeing Wisconsin colored red on a map, we all know what 95%+ would choose.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2018, 05:55:24 AM »

In no particular order:
HRC (being a bad candidate who thinks it's her turn, not visiting some states)
Julian Assange\Wikileaks (their email dumps made a lot of damage by creating negative coverage. They were Putin's tools in hijacking the election)
Vladimir Putin (for commanding his stooges to support Trump- forgot to vote for him)
DWS\DNC (by coronating Clinton)
Sexism (Hillary was treated very unfairly because she's a woman- I can constantly see her being demonized by right-wingers who keep mentioning her in a crazed, obsessed manner, and leftists who say with a straight face that she would've privatized social security)
Whitelash (helped Trump gain some very decisive wins)
Fake news (helped the demonization of Clinton)

But I think what caused her loss most of all was a combination of anti-intellectualism and stubbornness. Trump, who disdains reading, learning new things, and acknowledging that he doesn't know everything, is wrong sometimes, and that sometimes other people who are experts on a subject know better than he does, is the embodiment of anti-intellectualism, and many people wanted a way to "stick it to" the scientists, teachers, and everyone else they considered "elitist". Add in a bit of stubbornness, and the willingness many people have to bite their noses off to spite their face ("I'd rather vote for Donald Trump than a (D)emocrat!" or "I'll vote for Trump if it shows the establishment/those liberals what's what!")

A lot of politics these days is much more about pissing off "the other side" and seeing more red/blue on the map than actually accomplishing anything. While Democrats are guilty of this to an extent as well, I think this election showed just how stubborn most Republicans are in their partisanship. If Republicans were poised with the choice of peace and prosperity for the entire world and seeing Wisconsin colored red on a map, we all know what 95%+ would choose.

Agreed with this too.
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tallguy23
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2018, 12:46:44 PM »

The 8-year cycle and Comey letter sealed it.

However, she was responsible for her loss. Winning campaigns need a strong message and a candidate who connects to voters. Trump had that. Hillary didn't.
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JGibson
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2018, 09:29:42 PM »

Who/what gets the most blame:
James Comey
Whitelash
Obamacare premiums (not polled)
Sexism
Julian Assange/Wikileaks
Vladimir Putin


Moderate blame:
Donald Trump
Fake News
Fox News   

Some blame:
Anthony Weiner
Hillary Clinton
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Arkansas Yankee
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2018, 11:57:42 PM »

Trump’s selection of Pence was a master stroke.  It was probably the best VP choice in history.  Johnson in 60 is the only one that comes close.
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TML
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« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2018, 01:41:34 AM »

Hillary herself was the main culprit.

Her campaign was considered out-of-touch with significant segments of the general public.

Yes, external factors (e.g. Comey, Russia, Fake News, Sexism, etc.) were also involved, but if she had run a stronger campaign to begin with (i.e. additional outreach to working class voters, especially in the Rust Belt), those factors wouldn't have been enough to tip the election the other way.
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Arkansas Yankee
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« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2018, 06:44:56 PM »

Hillary herself was the main culprit.

Her campaign was considered out-of-touch with significant segments of the general public.

Yes, external factors (e.g. Comey, Russia, Fake News, Sexism, etc.) were also involved, but if she had run a stronger campaign to begin with (i.e. additional outreach to working class voters, especially in the Rust Belt), those factors wouldn't have been enough to tip the election the other way.

I am not sure Hillary could ever have lived down destroying 30,000 e-mails. She just continuously showed a sense of entitlement. 
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Inmate Trump
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« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2018, 09:40:29 AM »

You can't be honest and say that Hillary herself isn't responsible.

But you also can't be honest and say that Putin, Comey, and fake news aren't also responsible.
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Joey1996
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« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2018, 04:37:11 PM »

Tim Kaine is underrated here. He turned off many progressives who were thinking of sucking it up and voting for Hillary. And that ticket did worse in his home state of Virginia than Obama/Biden in 2012.

His trashness was a major factor imo
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JG
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« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2018, 05:42:22 PM »

Tim Kaine is underrated here. He turned off many progressives who were thinking of sucking it up and voting for Hillary. And that ticket did worse in his home state of Virginia than Obama/Biden in 2012.

His trashness was a major factor imo

I actually like Hillary and I agree. I still don't get why the hell she picked Tim Kaine out of everyone. If she wanted someone from the moderate wing of the party, someone like Martin Heinrich would have had much more appeal, especially to millenials.
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Pennsylvania Deplorable
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« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2018, 05:31:49 PM »

People can blame Wikileaks all they want, but they didn't make up one thing. Every document they've ever produced has been real. The blame ultimately rests on the democrats who wrote those emails that were released.
Putin's impact was minimal. Over $1 billion were spent on behalf of Clinton, but we're supposed to think $10,000 in Facebook ads promoting various causes swung the election? Surely Univision and the New York Times (owned by Carlos Slim) have much more influence, but I don't see any politicians screaming about Mexican inference in our elections.
Comey could have handled thing better, but again it's Hillary's fault that the email scandal existed in the first place.
Kaine was a terrible VP pick, but he was her pick, so it's still the fault of HRC.

The blame rests overwhelmingly on Clinton's shoulders with some credit also being given to Trump.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2018, 03:02:25 PM »

Tim Kaine is underrated here. He turned off many progressives who were thinking of sucking it up and voting for Hillary. And that ticket did worse in his home state of Virginia than Obama/Biden in 2012.

His trashness was a major factor imo

Look at the margin again, Hillary improved there.
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Progressive Pessimist
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« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2018, 06:15:45 PM »

I'm glad we got to choose ten because honestly this was a perfect storm brewing for Clinton to lose over the two and a half decades or so that she has been a national public figure. The term "death by one thousand paper cuts" (or whatever it is) comes to mind.
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