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Author Topic: Republicans don't want an Independent Katrina investigation  (Read 4755 times)
Julian Assange is a Snowflake
BRTD
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« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2005, 10:58:51 am »

Regardless, Texasgurl's point is very valid.

The Republicans waste lots of taxpayers' money on one of the most idiotic investigations ever that had absolutely no relevance to the American public.
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J. J.
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« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2005, 01:32:11 pm »


I'm not entirely sure that it is really Bush; that's very close for a reporter.

It's being reported that the photographer says it's Bush, but there is no way to tell from the picture. What is needed is a comparrison between the handwriting in the photo and prior handwriting examples known to be from Bush. However, it is pretty funny. hahha

Here is a legitimate image:

Img


Of course, JFRAUD seems to prefer presidents that piss themselves. :-)
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MODU
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« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2005, 01:41:48 pm »


The the picture supposively of Bush writing his need for a bathroom break is in question. Here is another same of his writing, this time done while in session on a piece of paper (note it is also in script and matches the sample you provided):

Img


Why would Bush need to change his writing style in the latest photo?

Note the "R" in Republican and Reign.  They match.
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jfern
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« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2005, 01:48:41 pm »

Whatever, it's real.
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J. J.
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« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2005, 01:50:00 pm »

WOW Maybe JFRAUD has found "Memogate, Part II."
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jfern
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« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2005, 01:56:17 pm »

WOW Maybe JFRAUD has found "Memogate, Part II."

No, that was the Washington Post article claiming that Blanco took her time declaring a disaster. They printed a retraction, but the damage has been done.

Anyways, the image in question here is on Yahoo pictures. Yes, I thought it was fake when I first saw it too, until I realized that it was on Yahoo pictures.
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riceowl
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« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2005, 02:00:43 pm »

Yeah, I'm not questioning the authenticity of the picture; I'm just stating the obvious: he didn't write the whole thing.
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jfern
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« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2005, 02:06:17 pm »

Yeah, I'm not questioning the authenticity of the picture; I'm just stating the obvious: he didn't write the whole thing.

OK, if you want to insist that he's incapable of writing that.
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J. J.
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« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2005, 02:06:44 pm »

WOW Maybe JFRAUD has found "Memogate, Part II."

No, that was the Washington Post article claiming that Blanco took her time declaring a disaster. They printed a retraction, but the damage has been done.

Anyways, the image in question here is on Yahoo pictures. Yes, I thought it was fake when I first saw it too, until I realized that it was on Yahoo pictures.

Well, WP did print a retraction and I cited it on the Blanco thread. It got a fair amount of publicity.

The picture is real, but is it Bush? It's kinda hard to tell from the back of his head. Second, did he write the note or did he receive it? It doesn't look like Bush's handwriting. "Memogate Part II." Maybe it's Dan Rather?
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MODU
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« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2005, 02:13:00 pm »

Also looking at the photo, there are two writing styles on the paper itself. The top half is plain, with a mix words writting in caps and others not. Below it, it looks like it is in script (or Bush script). Maybe Bush (if this is Bush as Rick Wilking claims) is responding to someone elses not to him?
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Jake
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« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2005, 02:42:10 pm »

Um, the top handwriting is not Bush's at all. The differences from what the person is writing and what is above in caps are drastic.
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Blue Rectangle
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« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2005, 02:43:09 pm »

Also looking at the photo, there are two writing styles on the paper itself. The top half is plain, with a mix words writting in caps and others not. Below it, it looks like it is in script (or Bush script). Maybe Bush (if this is Bush as Rick Wilking claims) is responding to someone elses not to him?

Also, the linewidth in the upper text is wider than the lower part. I don't think Bush stopped halfway through his note to sharpen his pencil and change his writing style.

Here's another example of Bush handwriting.
This example includes two printed capital letters that occur in the printed top portion of the note: "M" and "I". The "I" in the letter has the vertical crossing the top horizontal. In the note, it is the opposite--and the top and vertical don't even touch in the second "I". The "M" in the letter shows the middle point coming only halfway down. The note has the legs and middle in a line. Also, the "M" in the letter is much more angular than the rounded "M" in the note.

Also compare the note's "E"s in "NEED" with the capital "F" in "Freedom" in the Iraq note. The "E"s are wide-open at the top, but the cross parts of the "F" cross far over to the left.
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« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2005, 02:54:28 pm »



Yup, if that is in fact Bush writing in the photo, then it's clear that he did not write the top half of the message.
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Giant Saguaro
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« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2005, 02:57:13 pm »

Indeed, a complete and total waste of time, money, resources, staffing, energy, and many other things. I mean what do they really want to do here, investigate it to find out if it was really a hurricane?

The Democrats want to try to put on another show, that's all.
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Giant Saguaro
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« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2005, 03:03:46 pm »

Most all of these notes look to me like they contain a lot of different writing styles. I like the one that references "our plan." The shame of it is that if anything real ever did surface, it would be a little like "the boy who cried wolf."
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jfern
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« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2005, 03:13:19 pm »

Republicans want to bury their heads in the sand. Here's a comment I made about the evacuation before the hurricane hit. If I could figure out it was going to be a problem, why didn't Bush?

If it lingers at Catagory 3 or above directly over New Orleans, the Gulf will basically reclaim New Orleans. The sad thing is there are perhaps 100,000 people who aren't leaving there. Perhaps they can't afford to escape. Too bad our country doesn't have real evacuation systems.

Most people who don't leave during hurricanes do so either because they do not understand the threat, believe they can ride it out, or are simply stupid.  This is not to say that there are not individuals who would fall in the category of being unable to evacuate - but even in those cases the Superdome has been made available and is probably the safest place in southeast Louisiana.  Of course you will use any reason, even tragedy, to disparage the United States.  I do wish you and your kind would evacuate the country.  If you are too poor to do so, I am sure we could raise the money among the conservatives, moderates, and resposnible liberals on this board.

People like you would like to attack me for whatever I say.  Yeah, I'm a terrible person for pointing out that some people are unable to evacuate because they are too poor.

Clearly you will use any reason to attack me.
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« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2005, 03:16:09 pm »

Indeed, a complete and total waste of time, money, resources, staffing, energy, and many other things. I mean what do they really want to do here, investigate it to find out if it was really a hurricane?

The Democrats want to try to put on another show, that's all.

Under their proposal, yes. Remember, they originally only wanted to investigate the federal response to the storm, and not the whole response on all levels. It was only after Bush called for a full independent investigation into the whole response that the language changed. But still, it's not an independent investigation when there are Congressmen on the panel. The only way to have a truly indenpendent investigation, and one that will offer useful feedback on how to improve the response structure, is to have outside experts sit on the panel, review all the material, and then make their response. Anything else, and it's just showboating and spinning.
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jfern
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« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2005, 03:17:50 pm »

Indeed, a complete and total waste of time, money, resources, staffing, energy, and many other things. I mean what do they really want to do here, investigate it to find out if it was really a hurricane?

The Democrats want to try to put on another show, that's all.

Under their proposal, yes.  Remember, they originally only wanted to investigate the federal response to the storm, and not the whole response on all levels.  It was only after Bush called for a full independent investigation into the whole response that the language changed.  But still, it's not an independent investigation when there are Congressmen on the panel.  The only way to have a truly indenpendent investigation, and one that will offer useful feedback on how to improve the response structure, is to have outside experts sit on the panel, review all the material, and then make their response.  Anything else, and it's just showboating and spinning.

Do you really believe that Bush would create an indepented commission that wasn't just filled with political hacks like Brown?
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« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2005, 03:31:31 pm »

Do you really believe that Bush would create an indepented commission that wasn't just filled with political hacks like Brown?

If had to, yes.  However, I highly doubt that Bush would be the person picking the experts.  That would be the task of the Congress.  Of course, that still leaves it wide open for the Congressmen to pick their own hacks on both sides of the aisle.  At least the politicians won't be involved with the actual investigation, so that part will at least be much more independent and productive.
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jfern
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« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2005, 03:33:48 pm »

Do you really believe that Bush would create an indepented commission that wasn't just filled with political hacks like Brown?

If had to, yes.  However, I highly doubt that Bush would be the person picking the experts.  That would be the task of the Congress.  Of course, that still leaves it wide open for the Congressmen to pick their own hacks on both sides of the aisle.  At least the politicians won't be involved with the actual investigation, so that part will at least be much more independent and productive.

You seem to have a lot of trust in Bush here. Remember, he's the guy who decided that a failed horse laywer would be a good head of FEMA. Why oppose a real independent investigation, not an investigation that would be IINO (Independent In Name Only, like yourself)?
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Jake
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« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2005, 03:35:13 pm »

I see Bob Kerrey and Lee Hamilton are right wing hacks all of a sudden.
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J. J.
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« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2005, 03:36:16 pm »

As you've pointed out, here is what you've said:

If it lingers at Catagory 3 or above directly over New Orleans, the Gulf will basically reclaim New Orleans. The sad thing is there are perhaps 100,000 people who aren't leaving there. Perhaps they can't afford to escape. Too bad our country doesn't have real evacuation systems.

Most people who don't leave during hurricanes do so either because they do not understand the threat, believe they can ride it out, or are simply stupid. This is not to say that there are not individuals who would fall in the category of being unable to evacuate - but even in those cases the Superdome has been made available and is probably the safest place in southeast Louisiana. Of course you will use any reason, even tragedy, to disparage the United States. I do wish you and your kind would evacuate the country. If you are too poor to do so, I am sure we could raise the money among the conservatives, moderates, and resposnible liberals on this board.

Now, in point of fact, 9,000 went to the Superdome prior to the storm. Nagin had the ability to offer them evacuation, via buses, plus a few hundred on the empty train that left NOLA; he didn't. Perhaps a few thousand that waited in their homes, and could have gotten out, would have, if transportation out; this is a maximum of 12,000.

What about the other 88,000? The either couldn't use the buses/train or decided to stay. Several thousand (10,000) are still there. Now, I don't blame Nagin for not removing those people who have refused to leave or couldn't ride the buses, but the others he could have gotten out.
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« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2005, 03:39:27 pm »


You seem to have a lot of trust in Bush here. Remember, he's the guy who decided that a failed horse laywer would be a good head of FEMA.

Last time I checked, people were singing the praises of FEMA last year with the multiple responses to Florida following their hurricanes. How quickly people forget.


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Why oppose a real independent investigation, not an investigation that would be IINO (Independent In Name Only, like yourself)?

I'm not opposing a real independent investigation. In fact, I'm calling for one. The only way it will be independent is if there are no politicians involved but rather made up of professionals that actually understand this stuff, and can make realistic recommendations that will benefit everyone in the future, rather than politicians who pretend. You can't get more independent than that.
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jfern
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« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2005, 03:44:45 pm »


You seem to have a lot of trust in Bush here. Remember, he's the guy who decided that a failed horse laywer would be a good head of FEMA.

Last time I checked, people were singing the praises of FEMA last year with the multiple responses to Florida following their hurricanes.  How quickly people forget.


Quote
Why oppose a real independent investigation, not an investigation that would be IINO (Independent In Name Only, like yourself)?

I'm not opposing a real independent investigation.  In fact, I'm calling for one.  The only way it will be independent is if there are no politicians involved but rather made up of professionals that actually understand this stuff, and can make realistic recommendations that will benefit everyone in the future, rather than politicians who pretend.  You can't get more independent than that.

But yet you oppose this commission? Are you afraid that it would overshadow Bush's commission? There's no reason that we couldn't have 2.
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« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2005, 05:55:08 pm »

But yet you oppose this commission? Are you afraid that it would overshadow Bush's commission? There's no reason that we couldn't have 2.

Two commissions take too much time away from the issues as well as wastes our money (as people have brought up the Clinton hearings earlier).  Do it once, do it right.  Have the professionals on the panel and keep the politics out of it.
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