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November 15, 2019, 02:36:29 am
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  What should Macedonia (FYROM) be called?
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Poll
Question: What should the country of Macedonia (FYROM) be called?
#1Republic of North Macedonia  
#2Republic of Upper Macedonia  
#3Republic of Vardar Macedonia  
#4Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)  
#5No change to the current name  
#6No name including the word "Macedonia"  
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 53

Author Topic: What should Macedonia (FYROM) be called?  (Read 7105 times)
MB
MB298
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2018, 09:42:09 pm »

Just call it "Macedonia". There can be two Macedonias.

Greece and other countries (read: India and Pakistan) get so triggered over things that don't matter like little tiny naming/land disputes.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2018, 10:03:19 pm »

Why couldn't the compromise be: have the same name, but also explicitly add language to the Macedonian constitution that rejects all irredentism?
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2018, 10:04:46 pm »

Macedonia: The Hellenic* Republic of Northern Greece
Greece: The Philippian** Republic of Thessaly, Aetolia, Morea, and Southern Macedonia


Problem solved!

*Lit.: Greek
**Ancient word, lit. synonym for Macedonian
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2018, 04:35:40 am »

Why couldn't the compromise be: have the same name, but also explicitly add language to the Macedonian constitution that rejects all irredentism?

Because right now FYROM rejects such a proposition.
Just yesterday Zaef said that their constitution is an internal matter that shouldn't be part of the negotiations.
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Meclazine
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« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2018, 05:20:57 am »

Masso-Serbia
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cp
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« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2018, 03:09:10 pm »

France
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2018, 04:55:31 pm »

"The Really, Truly Hellenic Republic of Northern Greece, and also Macedonia"

But if the Macedonians want to compromise on this ridiculous issue, Vardar Macedonia is a great name.
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2018, 05:04:14 pm »

While I agree that this is really a non-issue and its a little sad that this is something that will get thousands of people on the streets to protest on both sides, I think that non-Greeks clearly fail to understand the importance of this issue to Greece, the idea that this is merely about snowflakism is clearly mis-informed.

The Greek region of Macedonia holds a significant part of Greece's population, so when another country continually implies a claim to that area, of course Greeks will be angry, especially those who live in Macedonia. Most other countries would react in the same way that Greece has reacted, if not much worse.

Also, the idea that this has any impact of Greece's economy and that if Greece simply focused on its economy rather than complaining about Macedonia, it would be better off, is preposterous. Not to mention that Macedonia/FYROM has much bigger problems than Greece could even dream of.

I guess an American analogy would be if Mexico suddenly renamed itself to Texas?

Exactly.

No, this not true at all and is way too friendly to the Greek position.

The analogy would only apply if the entirety of Mexico, and also the US state of Texas and some parts of Guatemala and Belize were all part of a historical region known as "Texas" the name of which had been applied by the United States to its portion of that region, generating American Texas, but which also legitimately and accurately could be used to describe all of Mexico and even some parts of Guatemala and Belize, then Mexico decided to start calling itself "Texas", too, but the United States responded by insisting that only American Texas was the real Texas even though people had been using "Texas" to refer to the entire larger region that included all of Mexico as well as American Texas and parts of Guatemala and Belize for literally millennia. So it's not analogous to the "Mexico-renames-itself-Texas" hypothetical at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)
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Representative Thumb21
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« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2018, 05:41:38 pm »

While I agree that this is really a non-issue and its a little sad that this is something that will get thousands of people on the streets to protest on both sides, I think that non-Greeks clearly fail to understand the importance of this issue to Greece, the idea that this is merely about snowflakism is clearly mis-informed.

The Greek region of Macedonia holds a significant part of Greece's population, so when another country continually implies a claim to that area, of course Greeks will be angry, especially those who live in Macedonia. Most other countries would react in the same way that Greece has reacted, if not much worse.

Also, the idea that this has any impact of Greece's economy and that if Greece simply focused on its economy rather than complaining about Macedonia, it would be better off, is preposterous. Not to mention that Macedonia/FYROM has much bigger problems than Greece could even dream of.

I guess an American analogy would be if Mexico suddenly renamed itself to Texas?

Exactly.

No, this not true at all and is way too friendly to the Greek position.

The analogy would only apply if the entirety of Mexico, and also the US state of Texas and some parts of Guatemala and Belize were all part of a historical region known as "Texas" the name of which had been applied by the United States to its portion of that region, generating American Texas, but which also legitimately and accurately could be used to describe all of Mexico and even some parts of Guatemala and Belize, then Mexico decided to start calling itself "Texas", too, but the United States responded by insisting that only American Texas was the real Texas even though people had been using "Texas" to refer to the entire larger region that included all of Mexico as well as American Texas and parts of Guatemala and Belize for literally millennia. So it's not analogous to the "Mexico-renames-itself-Texas" hypothetical at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)

I don't think there is too much of a point going into the semantics of the exact details, its an analogy so of course it can't fit perfectly but it does fit the general point I was making.

As for what counts as Macedonia, is it just Greek Macedonia or is it FYROM and small sections of other countries too? It could very well be argued that the territory of FYROM isn't Macedonia given that the vast majority of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia's territory was in Greece and a very small part was north of the border. It was only later when Macedonia was used to refer to the entire region as Macedonia, depending on what those in charge of the region at the time wanted (ironically just like Texas).

But, I digress. It is besides the main point - the point remains the same, FYROM has a name (and other policies) that clearly imply a claim on a large amount of Greek territory, as would be the case if Mexico called itself Texas.
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pilskonzept
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« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2018, 06:29:36 pm »

noelmaurer.typepad.com/aab/2008/03/sabidura-del-oc.html

Written ten years ago, and still spot on.

Gruevski has given Greece a lot of rhetorical (and also concrete, bronze and marble...) ammunition in the meantime, though...and Slavomacedonians', let alone Albanians', attachment to the name doesn't run all that deep. "[Something] 'Macedonia'" is going to work for both sides.
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The Saint
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« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2018, 11:31:18 pm »

If Number 4 becomes the name, I'm gonna have a good laugh for awhile.
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∀lex
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2018, 12:07:24 am »

(The Republic of) Macedonia
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« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2018, 01:37:18 pm »

upper or northern macedonia are fine.
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The love that set me free
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« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2018, 10:17:21 pm »

While I agree that this is really a non-issue and its a little sad that this is something that will get thousands of people on the streets to protest on both sides, I think that non-Greeks clearly fail to understand the importance of this issue to Greece, the idea that this is merely about snowflakism is clearly mis-informed.

The Greek region of Macedonia holds a significant part of Greece's population, so when another country continually implies a claim to that area, of course Greeks will be angry, especially those who live in Macedonia. Most other countries would react in the same way that Greece has reacted, if not much worse.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg_(Belgium)

Never heard of Belgium throwing a fit about the country Luxembourg. Also never heard of Missouri throwing a fit about Kansas.
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muon2
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« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2018, 12:29:57 am »

While I agree that this is really a non-issue and its a little sad that this is something that will get thousands of people on the streets to protest on both sides, I think that non-Greeks clearly fail to understand the importance of this issue to Greece, the idea that this is merely about snowflakism is clearly mis-informed.

The Greek region of Macedonia holds a significant part of Greece's population, so when another country continually implies a claim to that area, of course Greeks will be angry, especially those who live in Macedonia. Most other countries would react in the same way that Greece has reacted, if not much worse.

Also, the idea that this has any impact of Greece's economy and that if Greece simply focused on its economy rather than complaining about Macedonia, it would be better off, is preposterous. Not to mention that Macedonia/FYROM has much bigger problems than Greece could even dream of.

I guess an American analogy would be if Mexico suddenly renamed itself to Texas?

Or what if New Mexico had been admitted as the state of Mexico?
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Ethelberth
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2018, 03:57:48 am »

In Finland we had a plan to follow Zairians and change name of our country to "Democratic Sweden".
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Gracchus
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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2018, 02:31:42 pm »

If the Greeks spent as much time on getting their own house in order as they did lashing out at countries most of the world could not even find on a map, they wouldn't have become the first country to be downgraded to a developing country.

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mencken
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2018, 05:54:57 pm »

West Bulgaria

Edit: True Federalist beat me to it. Tongue
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« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2018, 02:42:08 am »

To expand on True Federalist's idea:

Write-in: West Bulgaria and East Albania  Evil
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2018, 12:29:10 am »

To expand on True Federalist's idea:

Write-in: West Bulgaria and East Albania  Evil
What about the Macedonian Republic of West Bulgaria, East Albania, South Serbia, and Northern Greece? MRWBEASSNG for short.
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Crumpets
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« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2018, 10:36:53 pm »

Better Greece
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dax00
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« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2018, 06:26:49 am »

write-in: Macedon
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2018, 07:21:41 am »

Alexandria, in honor of Alex the Great, just to piss off the Greeks even more.
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Austere Religious Scholar
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« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2018, 08:44:30 am »

Jfernia, so px76 has another excuse to rant.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2018, 11:19:02 am »

South Kosovo.


Just kidding.  Republic of Macedonia or just Macedonia. 
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