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  What should Macedonia (FYROM) be called?
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Poll
Question: What should the country of Macedonia (FYROM) be called?
#1Republic of North Macedonia  
#2Republic of Upper Macedonia  
#3Republic of Vardar Macedonia  
#4Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)  
#5No change to the current name  
#6No name including the word "Macedonia"  
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 53

Author Topic: What should Macedonia (FYROM) be called?  (Read 7106 times)
WB said Trans Rights
weatherboy1102
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« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2018, 12:10:42 pm »

East Albania
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Ohio is a Red State
BeastCoast
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« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2018, 12:28:56 pm »

West Bulgaria or Republic of Macedonia
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2018, 12:46:49 pm »

While I agree that this is really a non-issue and its a little sad that this is something that will get thousands of people on the streets to protest on both sides, I think that non-Greeks clearly fail to understand the importance of this issue to Greece, the idea that this is merely about snowflakism is clearly mis-informed.

The Greek region of Macedonia holds a significant part of Greece's population, so when another country continually implies a claim to that area, of course Greeks will be angry, especially those who live in Macedonia. Most other countries would react in the same way that Greece has reacted, if not much worse.

Also, the idea that this has any impact of Greece's economy and that if Greece simply focused on its economy rather than complaining about Macedonia, it would be better off, is preposterous. Not to mention that Macedonia/FYROM has much bigger problems than Greece could even dream of.

I guess an American analogy would be if Mexico suddenly renamed itself to Texas?

Exactly.

No, this not true at all and is way too friendly to the Greek position.

The analogy would only apply if the entirety of Mexico, and also the US state of Texas and some parts of Guatemala and Belize were all part of a historical region known as "Texas" the name of which had been applied by the United States to its portion of that region, generating American Texas, but which also legitimately and accurately could be used to describe all of Mexico and even some parts of Guatemala and Belize, then Mexico decided to start calling itself "Texas", too, but the United States responded by insisting that only American Texas was the real Texas even though people had been using "Texas" to refer to the entire larger region that included all of Mexico as well as American Texas and parts of Guatemala and Belize for literally millennia. So it's not analogous to the "Mexico-renames-itself-Texas" hypothetical at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)

I don't think there is too much of a point going into the semantics of the exact details, its an analogy so of course it can't fit perfectly but it does fit the general point I was making.

As for what counts as Macedonia, is it just Greek Macedonia or is it FYROM and small sections of other countries too? It could very well be argued that the territory of FYROM isn't Macedonia given that the vast majority of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia's territory was in Greece and a very small part was north of the border. It was only later when Macedonia was used to refer to the entire region as Macedonia, depending on what those in charge of the region at the time wanted (ironically just like Texas).

But, I digress. It is besides the main point - the point remains the same, FYROM has a name (and other policies) that clearly imply a claim on a large amount of Greek territory, as would be the case if Mexico called itself Texas.

No more than Germany calling itself "Germany" and not "Northern Germany" implies a claim on Austria and German Switzerland.
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Helsinkian
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« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2018, 12:57:51 pm »

Looks like the issue is being resolved:

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Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan
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« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2018, 01:14:24 pm »

Until they will prepare referendum in Macedonia Syriza will lose the elections, and ND probably will scrap everything. I'm afraid they lost too much time on negotiations.
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Helsinkian
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« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2018, 01:21:37 pm »

This map shows East Roman (Byzantine) provinces around the time of Justinian I. FYROM roughly corresponds to "Macedonia II" so I don't know what's the big problem with calling the country "North Macedonia".

Image Link
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2018, 04:31:23 pm »

Until they will prepare referendum in Macedonia Syriza will lose the elections, and ND probably will scrap everything. I'm afraid they lost too much time on negotiations.

The referendum will be held 12-13 months before the deadline for the next Greek election. So that doesn't seem likely.
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« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2018, 07:47:43 am »

I know Zaev is probably a crook, and Tsipras is a fool, but I feel sorry for both of them that they get saddled with such obstinate morons in their oppositions. I mean, Belgium has a province called Luxembourg, and you don't see Luxembourg throw a fit about that. Sane for the VMRO: it's laughable that those crooks who ruined Skopje are pitching a fit over an agreement that will allow the nation a way into the international community that simply requires a few symbolic concessions.
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Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan
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« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2018, 10:26:24 am »

I mean, Belgium has a province called Luxembourg, and you don't see Luxembourg throw a fit about that.


Belgium and Luxembourg are not Balkan. This is main difference.
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Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan
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« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2018, 01:59:02 pm »

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/13/macedonia-rejects-treaty-greece-name-row-zoran-zaev?CMP=fb_gu
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pilskonzept
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« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2018, 11:15:12 am »

The Referendum Is On.

September 30. 50% turnout and 50% yes votes needed to pass.

The question is going to be -

"Are you in favor of EU and NATO membership by accepting the Agreement between the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Greece?"

 - which may be less than exactly neutral. But frankly, VMRO deserves the rub.
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« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2018, 06:56:56 pm »

Luxembourg is a sovereign state bordering Belgium, among other countries. A bordering province of Belgium is also called Luxembourg. The province of Luxembourg was, in fact, taken by Belgium from the country of Luxembourg. Does this imply Belgium maintains territorial ambitions to what remains of Luxembourg? Of course not, and both countries peacefully co-exist in the European Union.

These olive-eating clowns need to man up and work on getting their own countries in order rather than obsessing over brainless displays of nationalism. What the hell is there to be proud of in Greece or Macedonia in 2018, ffs?! Real strength is forgiveness and admitting you were wrong, not bullying and cheat-beating.
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True Federalist
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« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2018, 08:38:07 am »

I mean, Belgium has a province called Luxembourg, and you don't see Luxembourg throw a fit about that.


Belgium and Luxembourg are not Balkan. This is main difference.

There are Luxembourgish revanchists who want to reclaim Arelerland, the traditionally Luxembourgish speaking part of Belgium Luxembourg. It only got put in Belgium initially because France wanted a road that ran through there to be removed from German influence. However, Walloonization has largely succeeded
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Velasco
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« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2018, 09:53:17 am »

I support the annexation of Greece, Turkey, as well as all the Middle East and Persia, into Greater Macedonia. Otherwise "North Macedonia" seems to be geographically accurate.
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« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2018, 09:58:27 am »

I support the annexation of Greece, Turkey, as well as all the Middle East and Persia, into Greater Macedonia. Otherwise "North Macedonia" seems to be geographically accurate.

Congratulations, you have been elected new chairman of the VMRO.
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Velasco
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« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2018, 10:06:06 am »

I support the annexation of Greece, Turkey, as well as all the Middle East and Persia, into Greater Macedonia. Otherwise "North Macedonia" seems to be geographically accurate.

Congratulations, you have been elected new chairman of the VMRO.

Wow, it's a great honour Cheesy

Actually the goals of the VMRO are too modest. I was thinking about the reestablishment of the Macedonian Empire under Alexander the Great.
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pilskonzept
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« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2018, 11:27:07 am »

I support the annexation of Greece, Turkey, as well as all the Middle East and Persia, into Greater Macedonia. Otherwise "North Macedonia" seems to be geographically accurate.

Congratulations, you have been elected new chairman of the VMRO.

Wow, it's a great honour Cheesy

Actually the goals of the VMRO are too modest. I was thinking about the reestablishment of the Macedonian Empire under Alexander the Great.

Too many Muslims on that territory for VMRO's taste, I'm afraid.
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Velasco
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« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2018, 11:59:35 am »

I support the annexation of Greece, Turkey, as well as all the Middle East and Persia, into Greater Macedonia. Otherwise "North Macedonia" seems to be geographically accurate.

Congratulations, you have been elected new chairman of the VMRO.

Wow, it's a great honour Cheesy

Actually the goals of the VMRO are too modest. I was thinking about the reestablishment of the Macedonian Empire under Alexander the Great.

Too many Muslims on that territory for VMRO's taste, I'm afraid.

We will convert all heretics to the Orthodox Faith, eventually
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pilskonzept
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« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2018, 05:10:00 am »

The referendum failed - 91% Yes on 37% turnout. While outdated voter rolls certainly played a role, turnout in ethnic Macedonian areas was much lower than usual, so the VMRO non-boycott ("we would not vote ourselves, but we will leave the decision up to you") was effective in the end.

Zaev and various EU officials are trying to spin this into a victory, and will attempt to pass the agreement in parliament alone - the referendum was technically non-binding - but this isn't going to fly.

Would make more sense for the EU to state that it fully respects the Greek borders of 1829.
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EPG
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« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2018, 02:48:49 pm »

Erm, the Treaty of Svres is a bit of an obstacle to that solution.
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tack50
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« Reply #70 on: October 02, 2018, 02:48:33 am »

Well, now that North Macedonia seems to have failed, why not try West Bulgaria? Or South Serbia? Tongue
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Meclazine
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« Reply #71 on: October 02, 2018, 03:16:36 am »

Meclazenia.
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #72 on: October 02, 2018, 04:57:48 am »

Well, now that North Macedonia seems to have failed, why not try West Bulgaria? Or South Serbia? Tongue

If you want a serious answer, the next name they'll try is probably New Macedonia.
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bigic
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« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2018, 05:16:58 am »
« Edited: October 20, 2018, 05:24:13 am by bigic 🌐 »

80 votes for, 39 against the start of the constitutional reform procedure (which includes the name change) out of 120 MPs.
Out of the 80 votes, 72 votes are those of the government parties (SDSM-led coalition, DUI) and Albanian opposition parties (who support the agreement, they also support the government case by case), 8 votes are rebels from the main opposition coalition led by VMRO-DPMNE.
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http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/xx-macedonia-parliament-votes-on-name-agreement-10-17-2018
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Landslide Lyndon
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« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2019, 05:41:32 pm »

It's almost over.
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