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  HOUSE BILL: Amendment to the Return Education... (Passed)
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Author Topic: HOUSE BILL: Amendment to the Return Education... (Passed)  (Read 1175 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: February 28, 2018, 04:00:48 am »
« edited: March 21, 2018, 02:56:11 am by People's Speaker North Carolina Yankee »

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People's House of Representatives
Pending
[/quote]

Sponsor: WxTransit
Co-Sponsor: ReaganClinton20xx
House Designation: HB 1198
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politicalmasta73
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« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2018, 08:54:35 am »

I wanna make science a 1-12 subject. Science is a relatively large single supplier of jobs, and embedding the fundamentals in early is very important. Also, I feel like we are being overly optimistic by thinking teachers will just sit on their hands while their salaries get cut. We need to put something in the bill to address that. Finally, as minor as it is, I think we need to change the Altasian History subject to World History, and cover different topics, one boing Atlasian History.
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RFayette
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« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2018, 12:08:54 pm »

I wanna make science a 1-12 subject. Science is a relatively large single supplier of jobs, and embedding the fundamentals in early is very important. Also, I feel like we are being overly optimistic by thinking teachers will just sit on their hands while their salaries get cut. We need to put something in the bill to address that. Finally, as minor as it is, I think we need to change the Altasian History subject to World History, and cover different topics, one boing Atlasian History.

I concur with this.  Science is too important to not be covered through elementary school.
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Baby Shark
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« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2018, 01:13:14 pm »
« Edited: February 28, 2018, 01:17:03 pm by President fhtagn »

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to move career courses down to just one grade in high school minimum. While it was argued in the previous thread that some students will be more scholastically oriented, ensuring that they take career courses provides them with valuable skills they need in the real world, no matter what route they take after graduating.

I do agree with expanding science, especially if math is also already covered in grades 1-12.
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2018, 01:48:21 pm »

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to move career courses down to just one grade in high school minimum. While it was argued in the previous thread that some students will be more scholastically oriented, ensuring that they take career courses provides them with valuable skills they need in the real world, no matter what route they take after graduating.

I do agree with expanding science, especially if math is also already covered in grades 1-12.

How about we set a minimum of two years?

I don't think we should be consistently forcing academically-oriented students to take one fewer academic class. Also, in an increasingly digital world, I'd argue that the mandatory year of CS also doubles as a career elective.

Concur with science and CS expansion. I also strongly support mandatory economics in the curriculum.
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wxtransit
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« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2018, 02:18:36 pm »

I'll offer an amendment to the amendment.

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People's House of Representatives
Pending
[/quote]

For the reasoning given above (I agree about science/career expansion), and that foreign language should be required. However, unless it's microeconomics, I don't see any need for mandatory economics, as that would be more as career course (would a future meteorologist really need to study macroeconomics?).
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« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2018, 02:31:15 pm »

It feels a little weird seeing this new order of "A through G" minimum requirements, considering the UC system uses a different "A through G" for admissions:

History/social science (a)
English (b)
Mathematics (c)
Laboratory science (d)
Language other than English (e)
Visual and performing arts (f)
College-preparatory elective ("g")

Obviously if we were to reorder them we'd have to set F and G to the career class and CS.
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Representative ReaganClinton
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« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2018, 03:49:52 pm »
« Edited: February 28, 2018, 03:53:46 pm by ReaganClinton »

I have a few problems with this curriculum. First of all, Career courses should not be cut down to just one grade in high school. They are important in determining what a young citizen wants to do with their future. I propose that this is changed to four years. As for Sciences and Atlasian History, the range of years should be extended to eight, covering Student's Elementary and Junior High School careers. Finally, I agree with Transit's proposition of a foreign language, though I would like to make a change. This should span from grades 7-12, becoming optional after grade 10.
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wxtransit
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« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2018, 03:54:43 pm »

I have a few problems with this curriculum. First of all, Career courses should not be cut down to just one grade in high school. They are important in determining what a young citizen wants to do with their future. As for Sciences and Atlasian History, the range of years should be extended to eight, covering Student's Elementary and Junior High School careers. Finally, I agree with Transit's proposition, though I would like to make a few changes. This requirement should be known as "(G.) International Languages" and should span from grades 7-12, becoming optional after grade 10.

I addressed these (save for Languages other than English being 7-12 instead of two grades) already. Wink
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Representative ReaganClinton
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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2018, 01:30:27 pm »

I have a few problems with this curriculum. First of all, Career courses should not be cut down to just one grade in high school. They are important in determining what a young citizen wants to do with their future. As for Sciences and Atlasian History, the range of years should be extended to eight, covering Student's Elementary and Junior High School careers. Finally, I agree with Transit's proposition, though I would like to make a few changes. This requirement should be known as "(G.) International Languages" and should span from grades 7-12, becoming optional after grade 10.

I addressed these (save for Languages other than English being 7-12 instead of two grades) already. Wink
To clarify, here's what I would like it to be amended to be:
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Also, wouldn't Section 1 Part I contradict what we are trrying to do here?
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wxtransit
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2018, 01:35:14 pm »

I have a few problems with this curriculum. First of all, Career courses should not be cut down to just one grade in high school. They are important in determining what a young citizen wants to do with their future. As for Sciences and Atlasian History, the range of years should be extended to eight, covering Student's Elementary and Junior High School careers. Finally, I agree with Transit's proposition, though I would like to make a few changes. This requirement should be known as "(G.) International Languages" and should span from grades 7-12, becoming optional after grade 10.

I addressed these (save for Languages other than English being 7-12 instead of two grades) already. Wink
To clarify, here's what I would like it to be amended to be:
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I support this amendment (to the amendment to the amendment), though I would say to make English required for all 12 grades and to make three grades of the career course optional, as from personal experience many students already have a packed schedule full of AP/Honors/IB classes and with the requirements, having more than one required grade of a career course could force the student to not take higher-level classes or even take part in a program.
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2018, 01:42:53 pm »

We should really have two sets of numbers for each subject: one for how much schools are required to mandate, one which they are required to offer.
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wxtransit
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2018, 01:57:30 pm »

We should really have two sets of numbers for each subject: one for how much schools are required to mandate, one which they are required to offer.
Good point. I'll amend.
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wxtransit
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2018, 02:04:25 pm »

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Representative ReaganClinton
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2018, 03:30:25 pm »

Alright, I think we can agree on this
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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2018, 03:59:00 pm »

An issue with the History stuff. A lot of schools alternate their history courses between World History some years and Atlasian (US) History other years, but this would forcefully disrupt their current curriculum by forcing Atlasian History every year.
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wxtransit
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« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2018, 04:01:25 pm »

An issue with the History stuff. A lot of schools alternate their history courses between World History some years and Atlasian (US) History other years, but this would forcefully disrupt their current curriculum by forcing Atlasian History every year.

Oh. I interpreted it as general history, whoops. Might this work?

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« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2018, 04:32:22 pm »

I am ready to support this, although I wanna add a freshman health class, talking about why not to do drugs, etc.
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« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2018, 04:48:39 pm »

I'd change history to mandatory 1-10, while mandating that at least three mandatory years need to focus on Atlasian history and three years on world, with one year of each in high school.
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Representative ReaganClinton
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« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2018, 05:21:00 pm »

I am ready to support this, although I wanna add a freshman health class, talking about why not to do drugs, etc.
I'd actually like to change this to a Sophomore-Junior year class, but otherwise, it's a good idea.

by the way, I would like to co-sponsor this bill alongside WxTransit.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2018, 06:50:35 am »

You guys have totally and completely missed the original point of the legislation. Tongue


No one in anyway said these subjects were "less important". The whole point of the original legislation was to begin the process of transitioning education back to the regions, and thereby allowing this to become a regional level debate for the sake of game play and activity at that level.

So far in this debate, I have seen every centralist (as in centralized state, not "centrist" in case someone was misreading Tongue) inclination towards micro-managing curriculum to the point of making the first line of the section in question ("While Regions will be able to create their own education curriculum") as well as the underlying statute's name, a joke. This is the same mindset that saw the regions stripped mined of responsibility and importance pre-reset, leading to widespread inactivity and disinterest (for gory details, read Truman's wiki page, its like a chronicle of events).

All of these curriculum mandates, will also render the need to amend section 3 to remove the cuts to the administrative staff, so that some one can administer these new requirements and thus the grants of money provided to poor school districts will also need to be clawed back as well. In essence, the whole bill is being unraveled in the process.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2018, 07:08:19 am »

I am ready to support this, although I wanna add a freshman health class, talking about why not to do drugs, etc.

I actually would have no problem with this, particularly in light of the heroine epidemic, it would fall within a reasonable requirement of the regions in exchange for the broader latitude I talked about in my previous post and is present in the underlying legislation. The Federal gov't is on the hook for a lot of expenses for treatment of addicted persons via the health care subsidy and thus such a requirement helps to reduce some of that cost over the long term.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2018, 07:13:23 am »

I am going to hold off on processing the amendment since text keeps being altered at present. In a previous lifetime, I used to distinguish between "official amendments" and "texts for discussions", the difference being the former actually says "Amendment Proposed/offered", and the other does not. This allows for the free flow of debate without getting trapped in looped votes on texts the discussion had already moved past.
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Baby Shark
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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2018, 09:16:45 pm »

I am curious as to why computer science would be kept separate from "career course".

I can also agree with Yankee's concerns that the more we add to this "amendment", the more this defeats the purpose of the original passed and signed bill.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2018, 03:35:40 am »

You know this is why people hate the house. Someone makes a post and then instead of their being a response or a disagreement, there is silence. I just made a post disagreeing with most of the House members, surely someone can make some posts challenging my points.

Come at me bro.... Tongue
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