Recitation of Pledge Found Unconstitutional... Again (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 27, 2024, 06:14:01 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Constitution and Law (Moderator: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.)
  Recitation of Pledge Found Unconstitutional... Again (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Recitation of Pledge Found Unconstitutional... Again  (Read 13662 times)
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


« on: September 15, 2005, 05:50:55 PM »

The remedy is for the individual not to say it.  Suppose that I live in a city where 95% of the eligible citizens vote; is that coercion for me to vote, if I chose not to?
Logged
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2005, 06:35:23 PM »



The remedy is for the individual not to say it.  Suppose that I live in a city where 95% of the eligible citizens vote; is that coercion for me to vote, if I chose not to?
Anthony Kennedy has argued that the "coercion" of a child in a public school may not be the same as the "coercion" of an adult.

Bad argument.  If it will intimidate one, it will intimidate all.
Logged
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2005, 08:39:54 PM »

Well, I will admit that the argument of "de facto coercion" is not necessarily the most compelling one (the establishment clause argument has always seemed better to me), although I don't see anything particularly unsound with the underlying logic: if de jure coercion was prohibited by Barnette, then it stands to reason that de facto coercion is also prohibited. The situation is perhaps analagous to Plessy: "separate but equal" may be equal de jure, but not equal de facto. Similarly, there may be no coercion by law, but there may be coercion in fact.

Thus, the only question is as to whether there is indeed de facto coercion, and that is of course a debatable point.

I live in a neighborhood where I might be de facto coerced from living.  Certainly my choice has raised the eyebrows of some posters.  Is that "de facto coercion?"  In every class I attended in elementary school, I attended with a girl that was a Jehovah's Witness; she, as was her right, did not say the Pledge of Allegiance.  That might have helped teach me tolerance.  Permit those who wish to  say it, and those people who don't wish to not say it.
Logged
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2005, 09:20:03 PM »


How many say it because they aren't aware they don't have to?

Like I said, would you oppose mandating that teachers inform the  class that it is optional?

I'm just thankful they never even had that thing in class since 6th grade at the schools I went tol.

I have absolutely no problem with a teacher, or anyone else, saying, "This is voluntary; you do not have to say it."

My high school had a moment of silence, I remember by home room teacher saying, "If you go to church, you can think about church."  Nobody compelled me to think about church; I usually didn't think about church.
Logged
J. J.
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,892
United States


« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2005, 02:25:51 PM »

I live in a neighborhood where I might be de facto coerced from living.
The government is not involved here, so this analogy is not necessarily relevant.



Oh, I've been pulled over, three blocks from house by cops that that were surprised that I wasn't "coming into" the neighborhood.  When, appearing in court, I gave my address as "North _____ Street," and the judge looked at me an said said, "You mean South ______ Street, don't you?"
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.021 seconds with 13 queries.