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June 17, 2019, 05:56:41 pm
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Author Topic: Moderating Policies  (Read 25588 times)
Gustaf
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« Reply #200 on: April 13, 2018, 08:06:37 pm »

Yeah, Gustaf was obviously sarcastic while making a point. You can disagree with him or think it was too much, but I didn't think for a moment he actually called David a Nazi who wants Jews dead.
He literally did so, though... very inappropriate, even more so in the week of Yom HaShoah (Gustaf probably needs to Google what this is), when we mourn the six million Jews who were brutally killed by real Nazis, with direct relatives of my grandparents among those killed. Just came back from synagogue. The thought that I would want Jews dead is incredibly insulting, and I am sincerely disappointed that you would defend his personal attack.

If Gustaf wants to start a discussion about my political views I will be happy to engage in it, and some of the points he made about AfS later on were valid, but personal attacks like the one he made are not acceptable and even less acceptable for a moderator.

I'm very well aware of that without any need to Google. My grandmother came to Sweden as a Jewish refugee from World War 2, after all. The thought that you would want to empower the kind of people who would murder me and my other Jewish friends in the blink of an eye once given the chance is "incredibly insulting", to use such sensitive terminology. More so than me reminding you of that fact, I would think. That you are a hypocrite who does not adequately live up to your self-image as having solidarity with Jews in other countries is something that I understand is painful and unpleasant for you. But the ultimate fault for that doesn't lie with me but with you.

Again, I understand that the concept of a Jewish person pledging their support for Jews around the globe, turning around to voice support for anti-semites is offensive. I totally agree that it is. But I think it's unreasonable to expect that you can support groups that stand against the rights of Jews living in Sweden as equal citizens and not be called out on it.

I know my relatives who suffered from Nazi persecution would want me to stand up for their rights. I'm sorry that you think the way to honour yours is to support fascist thugs. And that you think the way to defend that position is appealing to censorship rather than trying to justify your opinion.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #201 on: April 14, 2018, 02:25:44 am »

There is nothing hypocritical about my actual position, only about the strawman you are making out of it. But of course you were never interested in having an honest discussion about my views, as you now pretend, or in listening, but only in screeching "Nazi!", which you now double down on. With more intellectually honest posters I would gladly elaborate on my views, but I am done with you and I am very happy that your personal attack was not tolerated on this forum.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #202 on: April 14, 2018, 03:00:23 am »

There is nothing hypocritical about my actual position, only about the strawman you are making out of it. But of course you were never interested in having an honest discussion about my views, as you now pretend, or in listening, but only in screeching "Nazi!", which you now double down on. With more intellectually honest posters I would gladly elaborate on my views, but I am done with you and I am very happy that your personal attack was not tolerated on this forum.

It is amusing that you people always pull off these posts that are void of any content beyond personal attacks and complaints about personal attacks with a straight face. The moment you got called out on what was a pretty disgusting post you ran to censor me rather than respond. Me noting your position is a disgusting personal attack while you call me "screeching" and "intellectually dishonest" and accuse me of not knowing the history of persecution of my own family.

I apologize for your feelings being hurt by you supporting fascists. It must be very hard for you.
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Speaking Truth 2 Power 24/7
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« Reply #203 on: April 14, 2018, 09:21:54 pm »
« Edited: April 14, 2018, 10:40:46 pm by Laughter will triumph over pain »

This would be the ideal way to have a discussion:

Img
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Ἅιδης
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« Reply #204 on: April 17, 2018, 06:48:50 pm »

Why has my Who do you rather associate with Germany thread been deleted? What paragraph of the ToS did it violate?  Red and angry
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muon2
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« Reply #205 on: April 18, 2018, 08:33:45 am »

I checked the log. I see that the topic had been reported by a non-moderator as insensitive. A moderator deleted the topic, but did not think that it rose to the level of an infraction.
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Torie
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« Reply #206 on: April 18, 2018, 08:41:08 am »

I deleted it. A poll of Hitler versus Merkel I thought was rather inappropriate or spam or trolling. Just who would choose Hitler, except for trolling purposes? But it was a close call, so as Muon2 noted, I did not infract it.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #207 on: April 18, 2018, 08:50:03 am »
« Edited: December 01, 2018, 12:06:22 pm by DavidB. »

I deleted it. A poll of Hitler versus Merkel I thought was rather inappropriate or spam or trolling. Just who would choose Hitler, except for trolling purposes? But it was a close call, so as Muon2 noted, I did not infract it.
So apparently the question was not "who would you prefer?" (which would actually clearly be trolling, because indeed, let's hope people would not pick Hitler) but "who do you associate with Germany more?" I bet there are tons of people who still think of Hitler when thinking of Germany (most Israelis would certainly think of Hitler before thinking of Merkel, for instance). It's not a strange question at all. I can imagine that this is an especially interesting question to a German poster like Hades. It would also be interesting to see the breakdown America/Europe; I'd imagine that Americans are more likely to associate Germany with Hitler and Europeans with Merkel.
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Torie
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« Reply #208 on: April 18, 2018, 09:02:30 am »

I deleted it. A poll of Hitler versus Merkel I thought was rather inappropriate or spam or trolling. Just who would choose Hitler, except for trolling purposes? But it was a close call, so as Muon2 noted, I did not infract it.
So apparently the question was not "whom would you prefer?" (which would actually clearly be trolling, because indeed, let's hope people would not pick Hitler) but "whom do you associate with Germany more?" I bet there are tons of people who still think of Hitler when thinking of Germany. It's not a strange question at all. I can imagine that this is an especially interesting question to a German poster like Hades. It would also be interesting to see the breakdown America/Europe; I'd imagine that Americans are more likely to associate Germany with Hitler and Europeans with Merkel.

I should have checked the post again before posting the above. I am still uncomfortable with the question, in part I guess because many would have no idea who Merkel is, so in that sense the question is kind of loaded. But in hindsight, and given the poster who created the thread took offense, I perhaps made the wrong decision. It kind of sucks for a nation, when arguably its most famous person is such a monster.

How about a question about the US: who do you associate more with the US, Trump or George Washington?
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Ἅιδης
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« Reply #209 on: April 18, 2018, 10:32:03 am »

I still think the topic was wrongly deleted, but I'm not going to start it again as I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers.

Thank you, @DavidB. for you words; they describe the intentions of deleted thread very accurately.
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Torie
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« Reply #210 on: April 18, 2018, 10:37:33 am »
« Edited: April 18, 2018, 10:42:32 am by Torie »

I still think the topic was wrongly deleted, but I'm not going to start it again as I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers.

Thank you, @DavidB. for you words; they describe the intentions of deleted thread very accurately.

That is very mature way to look at it (would that we have more such maturity around here). Thank you. How about this: I copy and paste your text that was deleted, in a post under my name? Or I could PM to you the text so that you need not retype it.
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Ἅιδης
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« Reply #211 on: April 18, 2018, 11:54:08 am »

I still think the topic was wrongly deleted, but I'm not going to start it again as I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers.

Thank you, @DavidB. for you words; they describe the intentions of deleted thread very accurately.

That is very mature way to look at it (would that we have more such maturity around here). Thank you. How about this: I copy and paste your text that was deleted, in a post under my name? Or I could PM to you the text so that you need not retype it.

No. I'll try to post it on AAD.
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muon2
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« Reply #212 on: June 01, 2018, 06:33:48 pm »

I understand the petitions to ban some other poster are a time-honored tradition here on the Atlas board. Petitions to ban some arbitrary group or statement are just clutter. I plan to moderate them by locking or deleting such threads that aren't dealing with a substantial Atlas issue.
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BenBurch
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« Reply #213 on: July 10, 2018, 08:02:39 am »
« Edited: July 17, 2018, 03:39:16 pm by muon2 »

One of my posts about James Cox was deleted for excessive hyperbole.  I would like to know why.  

Comment by muon2:

I can't speak for the moderator who deleted it but it used language that went well beyond what was needed to convey your message.

In the future, please do not post messages that were deleted. There's usually a reason why someone thought they shouldn't be on the forum. The moderators have access to those posts and can review them as needed by your request.
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muon2
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« Reply #214 on: August 23, 2018, 06:07:52 pm »
« Edited: August 23, 2018, 06:13:54 pm by muon2 »

There has been a great deal of threads and comments related to election trolling, particularly when it takes the form of concern trolling. The midterms are fast approaching and election trolling is only likely to increase. The Terms of Service do not explicitly mention trolling, but there are provisions that bear on the type of disruption that can and does occur. These are the relevant parts of the Terms of Service.

Quote from: Terms of Service
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, ... .

Note that it is impossible for the staff or the owners of this forum to confirm the validity of posts. Please remember that we do not actively monitor the posted messages, and as such, are not responsible for the content contained within. We do not warrant the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information presented. The posted messages express the views of the author, and not necessarily the views of this forum, its staff, its subsidiaries, or this forum's owner. Anyone who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to notify an administrator or moderator of this forum immediately. The staff and the owner of this forum reserve the right to remove objectionable content, within a reasonable time frame, if they determine that removal is necessary. This is a manual process, however, please realize that they may not be able to remove or edit particular messages immediately. This policy applies to member profile information as well.

Trolling on the election boards often involves false and inaccurate information. Trolling also can be harassing when it derails a thread and effectively prevents other posters from having a conversation. Both of these have happened on the election boards. Trolling also involves intent and continued posts in the same vein.

The following points constitute an operational test of this type of trolling:

1. Are there a series of posts from an individual that deliberately misrepresent facts or data in order to get a rise out of one or more people?
2. Are there a series of posts from an individual that use factually accurate content but are worded in a way to slight or antagonize other users?
3. Are there a series of posts from an individual that derail or obstruct normal posting in threads?

As indicated in the Terms of Service moderators may modify or remove some or all or the posts that meet that test. Like other abuse of the ToS, sanctions may result from repeated trolling depending on other factors.
A. Is the trolling occurring in a polarized context that will most likely get a reaction, e.g. on election or polling boards?
B. Has the user posted that they are trying to antagonize other posters?
C. Has the poster had previous sanctions for trolling or other abuse of the ToS?
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Anthony Davis is Awesome
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« Reply #215 on: August 23, 2018, 06:46:19 pm »

Election trolling isn't assuming that upsets may happen like having Johnson win and Steve Pearce win in NM. Disagreeing with someone on predictions isn't trolling
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muon2
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« Reply #216 on: August 23, 2018, 07:40:38 pm »

Election trolling isn't assuming that upsets may happen like having Johnson win and Steve Pearce win in NM. Disagreeing with someone on predictions isn't trolling

I agree. I think I've worded the points in way that leaves room for legitimate disagreement on election predictions. Disagreement is different from deliberate misrepresentation or unduly antagonistic wording spread over a series of posts.
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muon2
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« Reply #217 on: March 20, 2019, 10:07:16 pm »

There have been a number of complaints about the rising level of bigoted and personal attacks that are occurring on the Forum. These are categories that are against the ToS and Dave has indicated strongly that they should be moderated, even more so than politically-oriented posts that could be construed as trolling or spam. This is the first tool to address ToS violations, and should be the only tool in most cases.

The other possible tool for those cases that aren't resolved with infractions is the sanction. There are four levels of sanction: warning, post moderation, muting, and ban (temp or permanent). In order to better deal with bigoted and personal attacks that happen on a regular but infrequent basis, the following practices will be used:

1. As part of the regular review of moderated posts and users, posts flagged as discrimination/hatefulness or personal attack will be treated with a much stricter standard. That means that such posts are more likely to result in to impose a sanction if either of those type of infraction exist. It will not be automatic, since different mods have different standards for infractions.

2. Users who have had previous sanctions will be subject to a longer period of review than other users (which is typically a month). The length of the period of review will depend on the nature of the previous sanction.

3. Users that have been temp-banned any time since the start of 2018 will be on probation after the temp-ban ends. Probation has been used for users who have been allowed to return from permaban status. For a period of up to a year those users will get little tolerance for any infractions before they considered for possible permanent ban. This will apply to users who get temp-bans in the future as well.
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#Kavanaugh For Prison
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« Reply #218 on: March 21, 2019, 01:14:49 pm »

I remember when I was warned at 1 point, what it did was that it took away my ability to report posts on the forum for a week?

2 questions:

Is that the only type of warning penalty, or are there other types of penalties?
Are warnings always exactly 1 week?
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muon2
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« Reply #219 on: March 21, 2019, 07:49:21 pm »

I remember when I was warned at 1 point, what it did was that it took away my ability to report posts on the forum for a week?

2 questions:

Is that the only type of warning penalty, or are there other types of penalties?
Are warnings always exactly 1 week?

There are three levels of sanctions below a ban. Warning is the lowest. Post moderation is the next step up. Muting is the step above post moderation. Beyond that are tempbans and permabans. The length of a sanction is variable and depends on the conditions that warranted the sanction.
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#Kavanaugh For Prison
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« Reply #220 on: March 21, 2019, 10:42:21 pm »

I remember when I was warned at 1 point, what it did was that it took away my ability to report posts on the forum for a week?

2 questions:

Is that the only type of warning penalty, or are there other types of penalties?
Are warnings always exactly 1 week?

There are three levels of sanctions below a ban. Warning is the lowest. Post moderation is the next step up. Muting is the step above post moderation. Beyond that are tempbans and permabans. The length of a sanction is variable and depends on the conditions that warranted the sanction.

I was talking specifically about warnings in my post. I know that the restrictions are different between warnings and other types of sanctions. That was not my question. My question was specifically about whether or not warnings always meant that the receiving user was unable to report posts for the duration of the warning, or if the penalty was more varied.
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Virginiá
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« Reply #221 on: March 21, 2019, 11:50:43 pm »

I was talking specifically about warnings in my post. I know that the restrictions are different between warnings and other types of sanctions. That was not my question. My question was specifically about whether or not warnings always meant that the receiving user was unable to report posts for the duration of the warning, or if the penalty was more varied.

It's was meant that way, but it's not standard SMF behavior. I added it last year after we had several instances of muted/mod review'd users abusing the report system to be a pain in the ass.

If you are wondering if it can be an optional action for a warning, the answer is, for now, no. It's all or nothing.
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muon2
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« Reply #222 on: March 22, 2019, 08:54:20 am »

I remember when I was warned at 1 point, what it did was that it took away my ability to report posts on the forum for a week?

2 questions:

Is that the only type of warning penalty, or are there other types of penalties?
Are warnings always exactly 1 week?

There are three levels of sanctions below a ban. Warning is the lowest. Post moderation is the next step up. Muting is the step above post moderation. Beyond that are tempbans and permabans. The length of a sanction is variable and depends on the conditions that warranted the sanction.

I was talking specifically about warnings in my post. I know that the restrictions are different between warnings and other types of sanctions. That was not my question. My question was specifically about whether or not warnings always meant that the receiving user was unable to report posts for the duration of the warning, or if the penalty was more varied.

I believe post reporting is the only restriction when on warning.
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Russian Bear
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« Reply #223 on: April 30, 2019, 03:59:54 pm »
« Edited: April 30, 2019, 04:55:05 pm by Russian Bear »

I've got "Post moderation", but how does it work? I have a couple of posts (totally "innocent" I'd say), but they didn't come through the "Post moderation". Didn't those posts really pass "quality control"? Or have they got somehow lost in the system? For example I wrote a week ago something about "Biden is not Jeb" (in thread about Biden I believe) and compared they polls number and favorability.
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muon2
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« Reply #224 on: May 01, 2019, 12:01:16 pm »

I've got "Post moderation", but how does it work? I have a couple of posts (totally "innocent" I'd say), but they didn't come through the "Post moderation". Didn't those posts really pass "quality control"? Or have they got somehow lost in the system? For example I wrote a week ago something about "Biden is not Jeb" (in thread about Biden I believe) and compared they polls number and favorability.

Moderated posts can be approved by any moderator, and if they are approved they will post to the board you intended. Any mod may also choose to delete the post.

In your case there have been some posts that can't be approved due to a bug in the Forum software. The bug is being addressed. However, those posts are likely lost to future approval. Feel free to try those again.
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