French Socialist Party leadership election

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Merci pour tes/vos contributions sur le forum augbell.

Tu devais choisir entre "tes" et "vos" .

Forgive my French!
Ok, in all honesty I wasn't sure which term to use. So I used both.

Because we're on a forum "tes" is OK.
You use "vos" or in general the second person of plural for addressing people formally. A bit like the third person "usted" and "su" in Spanish ("gracias por sus contribuciones sobre en el forumo").
.

[augbell]

Third orientation text: socialists, a path to revival, by Olivier Faure

Who is he ?
Former PS spokesman, MP for Seine-et-Marne (far Parisian suburbs), leader of the socialist group in the lower house since 2016. After former leader Bruno Le Roux became Interior minister, an election opposed Faure and a friend of Manuel Valls, the central PS wing (Faure's wing) formed an alliance with the left wing to defeat the right wing. Valls was furious, and then blocked Faure's attempts to find a compromise between the government and the left wing MPs during the labour law.
The story of his candidacy is interesting.

After the huge defeat in the legislative election, former leader Jean-Christophe Cambadélis (don't mistake the PS leader for the PS group in the lower house leader) resigned, and some young socialist executives decided to stay united with a view to the congress: former Secratary of education Najat-Vallaud Belkacem; MP for Landes (southern Atlantic coast) Boris Vallaud, her husband, former spin doctor of Arnaud Montebourg and former "Secrétaire général adjoint de l'Elysée", President's coordinator's assistant, where he succeded to Emmanuel Macron; MP for Tarn-et-Garonne (rural south) Valérie Rabault, former chief of budget committee between 2012 and 2017; and Olivier Faure.
Belkacem was supposed to be the candidate: she's a young WOC, very popular among socialists, well known by the population. But as she lost the legislative election in Lyon's suburbs, she currently holds no office. So she asked to be retributed as PS leader, and to be automatically PS chief candidate for next european election. Faure opposed this, and rumors claim that he's the one who disclosed those conditions to the media. Anyways, Belkacem decided not to run.
Meanwhile a group of young members lead by Montebourg's partisans started to build a platform for the congress and the coming years, "En Commun" (together). They gained popularity, and received support from Valérie Rabault, but also from Emmanuel Grégoire (Leader of the powerful Parisian PS) and Sébastien Vincini (Leader of the Haute-Garonne PS, Toulouse region, another strong local PS). Olivier Faure declared his candidacy to outstrip Rabault. After a period of uncertainty, En Commun decided to endorse Faure, so that the central wing don't go divided to the congress.

What's the sense of Faure's candidacy ? One word, unity. He wants that we stay together, right and left wing, to preserve diversity of ideas and to be the strongest possible. He puts stress on the fact that this congress isn't a platform congress, but a congress to renew the PS. His proposals are focused on internal change. He wants to "to yield the floor to members again". He's the heir of the synthesis socialist tradition. A compromise has been prefered to clarification for ages. He's endorsed by people from the right wing (Former mayor of Nantes, former Prime Minister and Secratary of foreign affairs Jean-Marc Ayrault) alike people from the left wing (mayor of Lille, former Secratary of Labour Martine Aubry, a left wing totem), but also a lot of opportunists.

He's seen as the frontrunner, he's endorsed by a large majority of office olders. But his campaign is uninspiring. He's not very charismatic and was retiring in the debate.

[augbell]

Fourth and last orientation text, the one I campaign for: Union and hope, by Emmanuel Maurel

Who is he ?
Former Jean-Luc Mélenchon's assistant, european MP, specialised in international trade, already candidate in 2012.
He's from the left wing. They're called the "frondeurs", the name of aristocrats who rebelled from the central government, because they opposed some bills during last presidency. In France, it's extremely unusual that the governments gets blocked by th lower house. Majority members that don't vote governments' bills were bad seen by a majority of PS members. Several times, the government had to use the article 49-3 of the constitution, which allows the government to pass a bill without vote nor debate. This is extremely impopular also. François Hollande, when the right did so in 2008, called that a democracy denial. The only way for MPs to reject the bill is to strike the government. Each time the government used "le 49-3", only republican and centrists MPs voted to strike it. But the last time Manuel Valls decided to use it, he did it BEFORE the bill was even discussed. So he asked the lower house to adopt the labour law without debates... Left wing socialist MPs, allied with green MPs and communist MPs, tried to strike the government but missed 2 votes to ask for an official strike vote. This was also very bad seen among right wing socialists.
Though he's not MP, Emmanuel Maurel is coming from this group. But his candidacy is both wider (some central wing socialist endorsed him, like former senator Gaëtan Gorce) and narrower (a lot of left wing personalities left the PS, and some endorsed Carvounas or Faure).
Even so, he's endorsed by historic left wing socialists. Former MP, former housing minister, former european MP and current Senate vice-president Marie-Noëlle Lienmann (one of the last christian socialist), former MP and Aulnay-sous-Bois (parisian suburbs where riots happened in 2005) Daniel Goldberg, former MPs Laurent Baumel and Christian Paul. I know from a reliable source that Arnaud Montebourg will vote for him, but he doesn't want to disclose it.
I think we're having the best campaign, he clearly won the debate, but it won't be enough to win. The remaining PS members are not happy with the left wing, accused to have lead to the fail of the PS. But our orientation text is the more built. It's leftist, but Maurel tried to understand current interational fail of social-democracy in the world without focusing only on politicking. He wants to build a new sythesis between historic socialist values and the current world. He criticizes globalisation, speaks about wages.
He's also accused by some moderate socialists to intend to turn the PS into a satellite of Jean-Luc Mélenchon movement La France Insoumise. Some left wing socialists also accuse him not to have enough campaigned for Hamon, and rumors claim that he voted for Mélenchon.

[augbell]

That's it for the candidates. I'll give you the results when I know them. If you have any question about this election, or the PS in general, or even the French left, feel free to ask, I'll be happy to answer

[Vega]

Hello augbell, welcome to the forum. You know, this particular board is a sophisticated one with politically articulated posters, so you shouldn't oversimplify things by calling regional elections "gubarnatorial" and regional council presidents "governors" : posters here know better.

Also, I'm sorry I couldn't resist laughing out loud while reading the name of the thread, just for the heck of it, no offence meant to you. I also had a chuckle learning that the PS interim leader is called Temal (sounds like "t'es mal", "you're in trouble" in French...).

Anyway, this should be interesting. Or, maybe more accurately, this should be fun.

Good to see your condescending, hostile post was not taken into account. You're a joke.

Keep up the great work, OP!

[augbell]

Hello augbell, welcome to the forum. You know, this particular board is a sophisticated one with politically articulated posters, so you shouldn't oversimplify things by calling regional elections "gubarnatorial" and regional council presidents "governors" : posters here know better.

Also, I'm sorry I couldn't resist laughing out loud while reading the name of the thread, just for the heck of it, no offence meant to you. I also had a chuckle learning that the PS interim leader is called Temal (sounds like "t'es mal", "you're in trouble" in French...).

Anyway, this should be interesting. Or, maybe more accurately, this should be fun.

Good to see your condescending, hostile post was not taken into account. You're a joke.

Keep up the great work, OP!

I think being condescending and hostile and mock the PS is part from French culture you know

[EPG]

Hello augbell, welcome to the forum. You know, this particular board is a sophisticated one with politically articulated posters, so you shouldn't oversimplify things by calling regional elections "gubarnatorial" and regional council presidents "governors" : posters here know better.

Also, I'm sorry I couldn't resist laughing out loud while reading the name of the thread, just for the heck of it, no offence meant to you. I also had a chuckle learning that the PS interim leader is called Temal (sounds like "t'es mal", "you're in trouble" in French...).

Anyway, this should be interesting. Or, maybe more accurately, this should be fun.

Good to see your condescending, hostile post was not taken into account. You're a joke.

Keep up the great work, OP!

I think being condescending and hostile and mock the PS is part from French culture you know

What is the PS retrospective analysis of Benoît Hamon and his campaign? Or will the answer to this question be revealed only by the election results?

[augbell]

Hello augbell, welcome to the forum. You know, this particular board is a sophisticated one with politically articulated posters, so you shouldn't oversimplify things by calling regional elections "gubarnatorial" and regional council presidents "governors" : posters here know better.

Also, I'm sorry I couldn't resist laughing out loud while reading the name of the thread, just for the heck of it, no offence meant to you. I also had a chuckle learning that the PS interim leader is called Temal (sounds like "t'es mal", "you're in trouble" in French...).

Anyway, this should be interesting. Or, maybe more accurately, this should be fun.

Good to see your condescending, hostile post was not taken into account. You're a joke.

Keep up the great work, OP!

I think being condescending and hostile and mock the PS is part from French culture you know

What is the PS retrospective analysis of Benoît Hamon and his campaign? Or will the answer to this question be revealed only by the election results?

For the right wing, he betrayed the PS, adopted a different and radical platform without asking the members.
For the left wing, he was betrayed by the right wing who didn't accept to be minoritary for the first time since the 90's.
It's also globally accepted that he paid the price of Hollande and Valls' impopularity. Even if he was in the internal opposition, voters didn't take that in account.
He was trapped between Macron and Mélenchon. When he started to collapse in polls, a lot of usual socialist voters decided to vote either for Macron or Mélenchon, hopping they would be able to run in the second ballot to avoid a Le Pen-Fillon choice. As an example, half of the Montebourg partisans I campaigned with voted Mélenchon, and I did so.
The PS was strong because it was strong. Left wing voters had voted for the PS because we were the most likely left party to win. It was over, and Hamon paid this.

[EPG]

Thanks. So it seems each wing betrayed Hamon in the end, but he seems to have been a candidate worth betraying.

[augbell]

He comes from the MJS (young socialists movement). More precisely, he was the first MJS president when it was rebuilt in the 90’s. Mitterrand had abolished the MJS, calling it the “school of vice”. In the 90’s Rocard, eternal ennemy of Mitterrand, rebuilt it. MJS is maybe the most crooked French political organisation.
Another problem with Harmon is his tolerance toward Islamism. This is the reason why I didn’t vote for him. I’m a stubborn laicity partisan, and he’s like Trudeau about religious minorities. He’s from that political wing that considers Islam is the “religion of oppressed people”, and therefore we should be more tolerant with them and the radicals... The PS is not only economically divide, also socially. He alienated both right wing economically and neutral religion wing socially. This hurt him, because those two separations of the PS are absolutely not correlated. Only one quarter of the PS remained with him.

[augbell]

Today's the day !! We're voting from 5pm to 10pm

[MAINEiac4434]

Today's the day !! We're voting from 5pm to 10pm

Any idea who will win? And who do you hope will win?

[Tirnam]

The turnout will be interesting, we will know how many people are still active in the PS.
Officially, more than 100,000 people still have the right to vote (if they have paid at least once their annual membership fee in the last 3 years). But apparently the party officials hope for 30,000 voters.

2015: 58,000
2012: 90,000
2008: 135,000

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Wow was Segogo really that inspiring for 2008 voters?

[parochial boy]

Hello augbell, welcome to the forum. You know, this particular board is a sophisticated one with politically articulated posters, so you shouldn't oversimplify things by calling regional elections "gubarnatorial" and regional council presidents "governors" : posters here know better.

Also, I'm sorry I couldn't resist laughing out loud while reading the name of the thread, just for the heck of it, no offence meant to you. I also had a chuckle learning that the PS interim leader is called Temal (sounds like "t'es mal", "you're in trouble" in French...).

Anyway, this should be interesting. Or, maybe more accurately, this should be fun.

Good to see your condescending, hostile post was not taken into account. You're a joke.

Keep up the great work, OP!

I think being condescending and hostile and mock the PS is part from French culture you know

correction, being condescending and hostile is part of French culture

I read an interesting article in Libé today interviewing some of the PS's remaining militants. Most seemed fairly anxious to see the party move back left after the Hollande era, which makes me think (hope) that le Foll or Carvounas won't win.

[SPQR]

Kinda OT, but I just turned on French politics after the 2017 elections, and I can't help but wonder what's the point of Hamon's movement.
Seems like he's attempting to occupy the political ground that Melenchon already holds pretty well. I mean, from outside it's already a push to think that the PS has any purpose in this political background, but Hamon...just can't understand it. Unless he's just trying to win a seat for himself in the next EU elections.

[MAINEiac4434]

Kinda OT, but I just turned on French politics after the 2017 elections, and I can't help but wonder what's the point of Hamon's movement.
Seems like he's attempting to occupy the political ground that Melenchon already holds pretty well. I mean, from outside it's already a push to think that the PS has any purpose in this political background, but Hamon...just can't understand it. Unless he's just trying to win a seat for himself in the next EU elections.

Hamon's more pro-EU and not as radical as Melenchon.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Mélenchon is a narcissistic blowhard. Hamon was actually a serious politician with a serious program who just happened to be a real socialist (unlike 95% of the PS).

[Tirnam]

Faure is ahead with more than 40% of the vote, Le Foll is a distant second.
Turnout is apparently between 35,000 and 40,000 voters.

Full results will be announced at midday.

[augbell]

Results with 66% of the votes
Faure: 49,75%
Le Foll: 25%
Maurel: 18%
Carvounas: 7,25%

Le Foll withdrew, there won't be a second round.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Results with 66% of the votes
Faure: 49,75%
Le Foll: 25%
Maurel: 18%
Carvounas: 7,25%

Le Foll withdrew, there won't be a second round.

If Le Foll withdrew and Faure is under 50%, shouldn't Maurel get into the runoff?

[windjammer]

Results with 66% of the votes
Faure: 49,75%
Le Foll: 25%
Maurel: 18%
Carvounas: 7,25%

Le Foll withdrew, there won't be a second round.

If Le Foll withdrew and Faure is under 50%, shouldn't Maurel get into the runoff?

Definitely not. Faure will be the only candidate

[Antonio the Sixth]

Results with 66% of the votes
Faure: 49,75%
Le Foll: 25%
Maurel: 18%
Carvounas: 7,25%

Le Foll withdrew, there won't be a second round.

If Le Foll withdrew and Faure is under 50%, shouldn't Maurel get into the runoff?

Definitely not. Faure will be the only candidate

Well this is a f**king terrible and undemocratic system, but then again what else would I expect from the PS?

(Yes, yes, I know Maurel would have no chance in a runoff. It's a matter of principle.)

[windjammer]

Results with 66% of the votes
Faure: 49,75%
Le Foll: 25%
Maurel: 18%
Carvounas: 7,25%

Le Foll withdrew, there won't be a second round.

If Le Foll withdrew and Faure is under 50%, shouldn't Maurel get into the runoff?

Definitely not. Faure will be the only candidate

Well this is a f**king terrible and undemocratic system, but then again what else would I expect from the PS?

(Yes, yes, I know Maurel would have no chance in a runoff. It's a matter of principle.)

I mean,
I don't understand the problem with that?

[Antonio the Sixth]

One of the top-2 candidates dropping out from the runoff shouldn't mean the other should get crowned without voters actually giving them a majority. The point of runoff systems is that you need to actually get >50% to win.