Chuck Schumer: Palestinians are the reason there is no peace in the Middle East

[Lord Admirale]

My opinion on Schumer's Palestine comments:

[Joey1996]

My opinion on Schumer's Palestine comments:

Not Israel expanding its borders through illegal settlements or systematically oppressing Arabs, Africans and Mizrahi Jews... or Saudi Arabia bombing innocent children in Yemen and spreading salafism throughout the region... or Turkey treating Kurds worse than 2nd class citizens... or the United States' endless war campaign in the region... no it's Palestinians who are to blame for the lack of peace in Middle East.....

And then people like you will turn around and say you support a two state solution.

[America Needs R'hllor]

First off, I would never want to blithely dismiss the holocaust, which I understand to be the greatest tragedy in history and a shameful stain on European civilisation. But with that said, an injustice in the past can in no way justify a injustice (even a lesser one) today.

Israel is not and can never be an ethnic state like Japan because 20-25% of Israel's population is non-Jewish. This is a fact of geography and history. The logic of your argument that Israel should become a Jewish state leads inevitably to either 1) ethnic cleansing to purify Israel, or 2) permanently making non-Jews (not just Arabs, also Druze etc.) second-class citizens in their own land (even if their people have lived there since prehistory). If you say that Israel should seek to emulate the ethnic character of Japan, with its long history of racism, discrimination and outright murderous pogroms against Koreans living in Japan...well, I don't understand how a Jew who knows his peoples' history could in good conscience allow that to happen.

Israel is an ethnic state, sorry and thank you very much. I don't care if you oppose the Holocaust- the only way for us going forward is to have a strong, independent country. A Jewish country. Otherwise, we're always going to face the threat of extermination. For your information, a quick Google search confirms that Russia, for example, is only 77% Russian. Germany, is only 81% German. And about a 10% of Poland's population was Jewish before the Holocaust. So your argument is extremely invalid for Israel, and shows the usual anti-Jewish and pro-Arab bias. Now, it doesn't mean minorities shouldn't get equal rights here, and they do, and we should work (and they should work with us) to make their lives better. Lastly, please don't ride the back of the Druze population for your anti-Jewish agenda, they're strong supporters of our country and many of them are to my right politically.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

First off, I would never want to blithely dismiss the holocaust, which I understand to be the greatest tragedy in history and a shameful stain on European civilisation. But with that said, an injustice in the past can in no way justify a injustice (even a lesser one) today.

Israel is not and can never be an ethnic state like Japan because 20-25% of Israel's population is non-Jewish. This is a fact of geography and history. The logic of your argument that Israel should become a Jewish state leads inevitably to either 1) ethnic cleansing to purify Israel, or 2) permanently making non-Jews (not just Arabs, also Druze etc.) second-class citizens in their own land (even if their people have lived there since prehistory). If you say that Israel should seek to emulate the ethnic character of Japan, with its long history of racism, discrimination and outright murderous pogroms against Koreans living in Japan...well, I don't understand how a Jew who knows his peoples' history could in good conscience allow that to happen.

Israel is an ethnic state, sorry and thank you very much. I don't care if you oppose the Holocaust- the only way for us going forward is to have a strong, independent country. A Jewish country. Otherwise, we're always going to face the threat of extermination. For your information, a quick Google search confirms that Russia, for example, is only 77% Russian. Germany, is only 81% German. And about a 10% of Poland's population was Jewish before the Holocaust. So your argument is extremely invalid for Israel, and shows the usual anti-Jewish and pro-Arab bias. Now, it doesn't mean minorities shouldn't get equal rights here, and they do, and we should work (and they should work with us) to make their lives better. Lastly, please don't ride the back of the Druze population for your anti-Jewish agenda, they're strong supporters of our country and many of them are to my right politically.

Don't get your point because Russia hasn't declared itself an ethnically-Russian state (in fact it's multiethnic). Germany hasn't declared itself an ethnically-German state. In fact when under the control of extreme nationalists who defined the state as exclusively ethnic the ideology lead to the mass murder of Jews living in those two countries...

I don't object to Israel being a Jewish majority state in perpetuity. Israel can set immigration laws and national policies to maintain that majority democratically. Whatever. Israel has avoided destruction for over 60 years and maintained a Jewish majority without changing its basic law on the ethnoreligious character of the state so I'm not sure why it's necessary now to avoid a second holocaust? It serves no purpose but to degrade the status of 1/5th of the country and their interests. One injustice doesn't justify another injustice.

[America Needs R'hllor]

First off, I would never want to blithely dismiss the holocaust, which I understand to be the greatest tragedy in history and a shameful stain on European civilisation. But with that said, an injustice in the past can in no way justify a injustice (even a lesser one) today.

Israel is not and can never be an ethnic state like Japan because 20-25% of Israel's population is non-Jewish. This is a fact of geography and history. The logic of your argument that Israel should become a Jewish state leads inevitably to either 1) ethnic cleansing to purify Israel, or 2) permanently making non-Jews (not just Arabs, also Druze etc.) second-class citizens in their own land (even if their people have lived there since prehistory). If you say that Israel should seek to emulate the ethnic character of Japan, with its long history of racism, discrimination and outright murderous pogroms against Koreans living in Japan...well, I don't understand how a Jew who knows his peoples' history could in good conscience allow that to happen.

Israel is an ethnic state, sorry and thank you very much. I don't care if you oppose the Holocaust- the only way for us going forward is to have a strong, independent country. A Jewish country. Otherwise, we're always going to face the threat of extermination. For your information, a quick Google search confirms that Russia, for example, is only 77% Russian. Germany, is only 81% German. And about a 10% of Poland's population was Jewish before the Holocaust. So your argument is extremely invalid for Israel, and shows the usual anti-Jewish and pro-Arab bias. Now, it doesn't mean minorities shouldn't get equal rights here, and they do, and we should work (and they should work with us) to make their lives better. Lastly, please don't ride the back of the Druze population for your anti-Jewish agenda, they're strong supporters of our country and many of them are to my right politically.

Don't get your point because Russia hasn't declared itself an ethnically-Russian state (in fact it's multiethnic). Germany hasn't declared itself an ethnically-German state. In fact when under the control of extreme nationalists who defined the state as exclusively ethnic the ideology lead to the mass murder of Jews living in those two countries...

I don't object to Israel being a Jewish majority state in perpetuity. Israel can set immigration laws and national policies to maintain that majority democratically. Whatever. Israel has avoided destruction for over 60 years and maintained a Jewish majority without changing its basic law on the ethnoreligious character of the state so I'm not sure why it's necessary now to avoid a second holocaust? It serves no purpose but to degrade the status of 1/5th of the country and their interests. One injustice doesn't justify another injustice.

I think you're confusing the concept of ethnic states and actually declaring yourself purely ethnic or something. Both Russia and Germany are ethnic states, that is their identity. Russia is Russian, Germany is German. The U.S. isn't ethnic. And for the last 70 years, Israel has indeed been a Jewish ethnic state- the state of the Jewish people, as written in our Declaration of Independence. If you're talking about the basic law currently being advanced by our government, it's stupid and I oppose it, but it's mostly useless populism to fire up the base.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Fair enough.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The truth: Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud cohorts are the a reason there is no peace in the Middle East.

FTFY - There are multiple reasons why there is no peace there and Netanyahoo is merely one of them.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

their hard and thankless work in developing it properly

This is the Zionist claim that I have the hardest time swallowing for the simple reason it is the same bunk every other group of European colonialists used to justify their colonies.  The fact that Zionism  happened to be an European colonialist ideology centered around a group of European colonialists who could trace their ancestors to having once lived in the area they proposed to colonize doesn't justify it in my opinion.

That said, regardless of whether the State of Israel should've been created is a pointless argument.  It does exist, and the Israelis there exist, just as the Palestinians exist, and no peace is possible unless all sides admit those basic facts and accept the resulting implications of those facts.

[dead0man]

Schumer's position that Palestinians don't believe a Jewish state should exist nullifies his stance on a two-state solution and places all of the blame in the conflict on Palestinians. He sounds like a right-wing extremist.

but....most Palestinians (and nearly everybody else in the area) don't believe that a Jewish state should exist.  How would Schumer's position on that fact change anything at all?  And how does parroting what the other side says make him sound like an extremist?

[Meclazine for Israel]

Palestinians have been throwing rocks at Israeli's since I was a boy, and 40 years later, nothing seems to have changed.

[America Needs R'hllor]

their hard and thankless work in developing it properly

This is the Zionist claim that I have the hardest time swallowing for the simple reason it is the same bunk every other group of European colonialists used to justify their colonies.  The fact that Zionism  happened to be an European colonialist ideology centered around a group of European colonialists who could trace their ancestors to having once lived in the area they proposed to colonize doesn't justify it in my opinion.

That said, regardless of whether the State of Israel should've been created is a pointless argument.  It does exist, and the Israelis there exist, just as the Palestinians exist, and no peace is possible unless all sides admit those basic facts and accept the resulting implications of those facts.

I understand, but there's a very clear difference. The European colonialists (save for Americans and perhaps some other unique cases, which are also different in many ways) dumped money and modern armies on the colonies and forced the natives to work for them, while Jewish settlers did the hard work themselves, while facing opposition from both British authorities (who also admittedly had a hand in developing the place, but in different ways) and Arabic locals.

And yes, I agree- this argument is pointless. Both "ISRAEL IS AN EVIL SCHEME THAT SHOULDN'T EXIST" and "THE PALESTINIANS DON'T EXIST" are useless arguments that will get us nowhere.

[sverkol]

New York democrats please primary him.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

New York democrats please primary him.

This isn't primary-able action, lol. At least, it ought not to be.

[Joey1996]

Schumer's position that Palestinians don't believe a Jewish state should exist nullifies his stance on a two-state solution and places all of the blame in the conflict on Palestinians. He sounds like a right-wing extremist.

but....most Palestinians (and nearly everybody else in the area) don't believe that a Jewish state should exist.  How would Schumer's position on that fact change anything at all?  And how does parroting what the other side says make him sound like an extremist?

And someone can say that most Israelis believe Palestinians don't exist, and that they belong in Jordan. It's nonsense to attribute a hive-mind to any particular group, and it is antithetical of having support for a two-state solution.

[Joey1996]

New York democrats please primary him.

This isn't primary-able action, lol. At least, it ought not to be.

NY has a large Arab population, he just said Arabs are the problem in the Middle East. There are plenty of people who will vote against him.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

New York democrats please primary him.

This isn't primary-able action, lol. At least, it ought not to be.

NY has a large Arab population, he just said Arabs are the problem in the Middle East. There are plenty of people who will vote against him.

His next primary is in 2022. How many would vote based off a 5-year-old remark? And even if that number is sizable, how does it get high enough to actually make Schumer lose?

[Joey1996]

New York democrats please primary him.

This isn't primary-able action, lol. At least, it ought not to be.

NY has a large Arab population, he just said Arabs are the problem in the Middle East. There are plenty of people who will vote against him.

His next primary is in 2022. How many would vote based off a 5-year-old remark? And even if that number is sizable, how does it get high enough to actually make Schumer lose?

Because old remarks resurface? And there are plenty of other factors which would result in him losing. Either way he should be primaried.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

New York democrats please primary him.

This isn't primary-able action, lol. At least, it ought not to be.

NY has a large Arab population, he just said Arabs are the problem in the Middle East. There are plenty of people who will vote against him.

His next primary is in 2022. How many would vote based off a 5-year-old remark? And even if that number is sizable, how does it get high enough to actually make Schumer lose?

Because old remarks resurface? And there are plenty of other factors which would result in him losing. Either way he should be primaried.

I have a positive opinion of Schumer's advocacy on behalf of his state in the US Senate and his constituents, so I don't really think he deserves to primaried.
Not to mention the fact that he is a politically powerful player, knows his state well, and knows how to not just be re-elected, but get re-elected by landslides. I think he probably has his seat till he retires.

[Joey1996]

New York democrats please primary him.

This isn't primary-able action, lol. At least, it ought not to be.

NY has a large Arab population, he just said Arabs are the problem in the Middle East. There are plenty of people who will vote against him.

His next primary is in 2022. How many would vote based off a 5-year-old remark? And even if that number is sizable, how does it get high enough to actually make Schumer lose?

Because old remarks resurface? And there are plenty of other factors which would result in him losing. Either way he should be primaried.

I have a positive opinion of Schumer's advocacy on behalf of his state in the US Senate and his constituents, so I don't really think he deserves to primaried.
Not to mention the fact that he is a politically powerful player, knows his state well, and knows how to not just be re-elected, but get re-elected by landslides. I think he probably has his seat till he retires.

I wonder how his Arab constituents feel.

[Joey1996]

Imagine if Mitch McConnell went to a conference for the Fraternal Order of Police and said "Let me tell you why we don't have peace in the inner-cities, it's because most blacks don't think there should be police there, they come up with other reasons but that's the truth."

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Say the United States Supreme Court in Brown vs Board of Ed decided that the solution to racial school segregation in the 1950s was to just desegregate a few of the Southern states chosen at random, and let the remaining states continue segregation indefinitely. That is in many ways analogous to how Israel treats Arabs.

Also regarding AIPAC, it really shows a lot about what their goals are when you consider that they get so worked up about peaceful and inclusive movements such at BDS, which have a substantial number of Jewish people within their membership, while not complaining at all about actual antisemitism such as:

Paul Gosar falsely accusing George Soros of helping the Nazis round up Jews to be sent to concentration camps.

Don Young pinning the blame on allowing the holocaust to happen on Jews who would rather not own guns.

The recently passed law in Poland making it illegal to mention that many Polish people were complicit in the holocaust, even the the statement is true.

5 different Congressman, including Paul Gosar mentioned above, who held a meeting with Czech neo Nazi leaders.

How did AIPAC reply to these antisemitic actions? They were silent. AIPAC refused to denounce them despite the blatant antisemitism in play. It really shows from this that AIPAC has seriously depraved motives for what it does.

[Badger]

Palestinians have been throwing rocks at Israeli's since I was a boy, and 40 years later, nothing seems to have changed.

Yep. For 40 years Israel has occupied Palestine. Coincidence?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Palestinians have been throwing rocks at Israeli's since I was a boy, and 40 years later, nothing seems to have changed.

Yep. For 40 years Israel has occupied Palestine. Coincidence?

Do you even agree with the Republicans on a single issue(This is an issue where even most moderate dems agree with the GOP)

[Badger]

Schumer's position that Palestinians don't believe a Jewish state should exist nullifies his stance on a two-state solution and places all of the blame in the conflict on Palestinians. He sounds like a right-wing extremist.

but....most Palestinians (and nearly everybody else in the area) don't believe that a Jewish state should exist.  How would Schumer's position on that fact change anything at all?  And how does parroting what the other side says make him sound like an extremist?

And someone can say that most Israelis believe Palestinians don't exist, and that they belong in Jordan. It's nonsense to attribute a hive-mind to any particular group, and it is antithetical of having support for a two-state solution.

Sadly, doesn't the Electoral dominance for nearly two decades buy Israeli right-wing parties that hold exactly such views empirically demonstrate that to be true?

I can't quite say the same thing on the other side, simply because photography still is the governing body in the Palestinian Authority which continues to support the Oslo Accords provision of Israel's right to exist, though it would not Shock me that enough of fatah's supporters on the street combine with nearly all of Hamas supporters combined constitute a majority of Palestinians opposed to Israel's right to exist.

Regarding the initial post, I guess it's all about context. Was Schumer saying this in a context of that's where the division lays and we have to move past that to a true compromise for peace, or is he basically endorsing the Israeli Manifest Destiny vision that uses the Old Testament as justification for expanding the countries borders today to the Jordan River?

[Badger]

Palestinians have been throwing rocks at Israeli's since I was a boy, and 40 years later, nothing seems to have changed.

Yep. For 40 years Israel has occupied Palestine. Coincidence?

Are you even a Republican on a single issue

Since when is acknowledging that both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist in a two-state solution a solely Democratic position, or anti Republican?

Frankly, beep boop, I'm more concerned whether or not any position I take is the just thing to support, not whether it supports a particular party or not. You demonstrate the same Independence on various issues such as stopping Obamacare. Surely you understand?

EDIT: and no, damn near every moderate Democrat I can think of firmly supports the two-state solution involving Israel withdrawing from the West Bank, nor am I the only Republican supporting such opposition. Admittedly I'm becoming more isolated as with many issues due to increasing islamophobia starting with bush and now fanned by orange head and his cast of characters. But saying that most moderate Democrats oppose palestine's right to exist? I'm calling BS on that.