AZ-08: April 24 general election (Update: Lesko-R wins by 4.72 points)
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  AZ-08: April 24 general election (Update: Lesko-R wins by 4.72 points)
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Author Topic: AZ-08: April 24 general election (Update: Lesko-R wins by 4.72 points)  (Read 49840 times)
Horus
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« Reply #200 on: April 21, 2018, 05:13:39 PM »

54-46 Lesko
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #201 on: April 21, 2018, 06:47:34 PM »

Here are the latest updated Early Voting Turnout numbers by Party Registration and PEVL thru 04_19_18

We might see one more update, if they actually provide the numbers on Monday to reflect the last day of "Early Voting" from Friday.

There is a chance we might see some updated info Tuesday before the election to reflect ballots received through the Mail on Monday, which in theory might be a bit larger than we have seen over the past week, since some people tend to wait until the weekend before election day to put their ballots in the mail...

Obviously we should expect that those samples will likely skew a bit younger, more Registered Dems and Independents etc....



Several things to note here....

1.) Democrats and Republicans have both done a good job thus far of turning out their "base voters" with 38% of Registered Dems having already voted and 39% of Registered Republicans having already voted.

2.) If we look at the "Pre-Approved" early voters, basically those that have jumped through the hoops to qualify for a mail in ballot, we see 50.1% Turnout to Date among Registered Dems and 51.5% among Registered Republicans.

These are actually pretty good numbers for both parties, indicating a higher level of Democratic enthusiasm than usual among Early Voters, and Republicans probably pretty happy that they have a decent chunk of votes in the bank, and considering the Pub voter Registration edge here, they can withstand some defections to Democrats and win in a straight up DEM/REP gunfight.

3.) Independent Voters--- This is obviously the area where I would be a bit concerned at if I were a Democrat....  At this point only 25% of Registered Indies have voted, and only 39% of those eligible to Vote-by-Mail.

Considering that the Dem candidate will likely need to win 60% of Registered Indies to have a chance of flipping this district, and even more if there is not significant Pub defection to the Dem, you obviously want to see that % of Indy Votes a bit higher to drop the Pub EV % down to a more manageable 46% Early Vote Range.

Now, let's look at the same data from another angle to see to what extent early voting patterns by party REG have shifted since we saw our first Early Vote dump to the latest numbers....



So how to read and interpret all of this?

1.) It appears the first huge wave of early ballots (Heavily concentrated in Senior Citizen communities such as Sun City, Sun City West, and various smaller precincts/communities with planned Senior Citizen communities such as Pebble Creek, etc...) tended to be a bit more Democratic than we might have expected.

2.) As more Middle-Aged / Middle-Class Anglo precincts started to fill out, with continued later numbers from Senior communities maintaining high turnout levels, we started to see the Registered Pub % of the EV increase, the Dem % drop, and the Indie % hold relatively constant.

3.) We are finally starting to see some shifts in the last batch of Early Voters (WED and THUR) with a high representation of DEM and IND voters...

Question is will this pattern hold for the last few dumps of EVs with higher daily turnout numbers from Friday and Monday/Tuesday (Last minute FRI/SAT Mail Ballots?Huh).

Let's flip the data another way and look at the relative vote share by AZ Legislative Districts located within CD-08 including the latest Turnout numbers...



First thing to look at is relative Vote Share by AZ Legislative Districts:

1.) Thus far we see LD-22, the largest part of CD-08 and arguably the most consistently Republican LD, well above it's RV vote Share, as well as the '14 GE and '16 GE vote share.

Unless a Dem candidate is winning the district by a comfortable margin, it is virtually unfathomable that LD-22 would flip, meaning that in a hypothetical 50-50 election scene, we would expect that it would be a subtraction game with heavily Pub numbers from LD-22 being subtracted by a minor Dem win in LD-21, double digit Dem win in LD-20, a tie, flip, or narrow loss in LD-01, LD-13, LD-15, and what there is of a Democratic presence within CD-08 LD precincts winning big in LD-04, LD-29, and LD-30....

2.) We see LD-21 (Sun City, "South Peoria", El Mirage, and SW Surprise) holding relatively steady in terms of RV/EV and historical GE vote Share in both GE and Off-Year elections....

3.) LD-15 which has roughly 6% of the vote is lagging a bit behind, while LD-13 (8-9%) is exceeding it's RV and traditional GE vote share.

4.) We see what passes for Democratic leaning LD's (LD-4, LD-29, and LD-30) lagging behind....

Although these places have a higher % of same day voters than much of the district, competitive elections are won and lost on the margins, and these are parts of CD-08 that have some of the highest % of Younger Voters, Latinos, and voters that frequently don't tend to vote as often in "Off-Cycle" elections, meaning we can't expect to see the "Anti Sheriff Joe" numbers that we saw here in 2016....

Now....

Let's look at the EV to Date by Party REG:

1.) If we look at the DEM vs REP EV Turnout numbers to date by Party REG and LD, we see some interesting results....

A.) If we look at LD-01 and LD-15, we see current EV numbers from REG Dems outperforming REG Pubs compared to overall RV numbers...

This is especially interesting in that both of these LD's ( Combined 12-13% of CD-08 Votes) are relatively Anglo Upper-Income College Educated places, with a relatively lower Senior Population....

IF Dems are going to make this district competitive, these are exactly the types of places that could make this district a bit swingier, considering that unlike many similar such communities elsewhere in the US, there wasn't really a huge swing towards HRC in '16 compared to Obama '12 numbers.

We did see major swings in both these LDs against "Sheriff Joe" compared to '16 PRES results....

2.) LD-20...

Mixed bag here for Dems... although these overall EV numbers don't look especially bad, the main thing that is killing the Dems is the relative lack of Indies showing up to the polls to date...

Hard to see a double-digit Dem win in LD-20 unless late EV and same day numbers shift significantly...

Still, this is an LD where we have been seeing the LD vote share increase over time, and where there appears to be a much higher number of cross-over voters than in many other parts of CD-08.

3.) LD-21

This is really where the relatively low turnout of Indies is killing the overall Dem numbers....

Sure, it's not implausible at all to see an EV turnout of (30 D- 46 R- 23 I) flip, but I would much rather have an RV (28 D- 39 R- 33 I) final turnout numbers here....

Still, many of the EVs are from Sun City the most 'Pub part of the District, and we're not really seeing yet the larger Turnout numbers in the most Democratic Precincts within the District....

4.) LD-22:

This is interesting in that the current EV numbers by REG are (25 D- 50 R- 25 I) vs RV (22 D- 47 R- 31 I)

This basically accounts for a Party RV/EV gap of something like (+3.1% D)  and (+ 3.5 % R) , AND the highest % of IND EV voters of any LD in AZ (24.8%)....

Although I haven't yet done a medium dive into LD-22, as I have in some of the other LD's of CD-08, this is obviously a place where Dems want to minimize their margin losses, and both the Dem-Rep-Ind numbers could help perform that task, especially if Indies break heavily Dem on Tuesday...


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NOVA Green
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« Reply #202 on: April 21, 2018, 09:22:23 PM »

I'm starting to wonder if Republicans are running into some Turnout issues in LD-01 and LD-15....
basically Exurban Northern Phoenix Area and a few precincts in NW Phoenix....

Started to think about this since I found some odd numbers in both LDs earlier today, ran some numbers, and it does appear that Republican Early Voting in these relatively affluent Republican areas is way lower than one would expect from traditional Early Voting habits....

Here are the precinct numbers for turnout among Pre-Approved Early Voters, and we do see that Dems are well exceeding their Party Vote Share by PEVL, compared to Pubs in the vast majority of precincts....

One must certainly wonder to what extent this pattern also exists in the wealthier and educated precincts in places like North Glendale, North Peoria, etc....

Throw in a 60-40 Indy Scene in similar places, makes the district look extremely different from a political perspective...

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Dr. Crane
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« Reply #203 on: April 21, 2018, 11:00:07 PM »

I rate this Lean Republican, due to the fact that though Democrats will make this much closer then normal, their are way to many Older, Conservative, White people in this district for it to flip Democratic.
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Dr Oz Lost Party!
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« Reply #204 on: April 21, 2018, 11:40:25 PM »

They're right, but they had the EXACT same title for PA18.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2018/04/mind-gap
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NOVA Green
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« Reply #205 on: April 22, 2018, 06:02:30 PM »

So to expand upon an item that I first observed last night, it does appear that Republicans do appear to have a significant Early Voting Turnout Gap in many Upper-Income Middle-Aged Anglo precincts within CD-08....

This is potentially significant in terms of where we might observe major swings towards the Democratic Candidate on Election Night, since these are the types of places where voters tend to be heavily Registered Republican, and vote early by Mail...

After spending a bit of time reviewing CD-08, my current take is that this was not only designed as a "SAFE PUB" district, but more significantly designed to appeal to multiple different elements of the Maricopa County Republican Coalition, that include the following voting blocs:

1.) Senior Citizens
2.) Upper Middle-Class Anglo Professionals
3.) Fast Growing Exurban populations

Throw in a healthy dose of Middle and Working Class communities with a significant Latino population, but where the population is majority Anglo... and meet AZ CD-08....

So let's look at those places where the Democratic Party has been turning out their Registered Voters at a much higher % than Registered Republican Voters to see what the early vote turnout battle looks like To Date....



Although there is no question that these are overwhelmingly Republican Precincts, one must certainly wonder if Republican EV turnout is extremely low in places like this, to what extent we will see a higher level of swings among Registered Republicans, and most significantly Independent voters break hard Dem....



Now let's look at those precincts where EV REG DEM turnout is running in the Mid Range compared to EV REG REP turnout....



So here we are starting to see Democrats turning out their base in greater numbers in some Senior Citizen precincts in Sun City and Sun City West, combined with a mixture of relatively Upper-Income Anglo precincts...

Note the 2nd range down is heavily concentrated in LD-22, which is basically the most Republican LD within CD-08, excepting perhaps LD-01 (Where we saw disproportionate EV Turnout levels covered above)....

So, let's overlap that briefly with the 2016 GE numbers for PRES and Sheriff...

....

Obviously there is a flip side to the equation, which involves the much lower Turnout levels in more heavily Latino precincts among Early Voters, that I previously discussed especially in my LD-21 post, but is equally applicable to LD-04, LD-29, and LD-30, and to some extent parts of LD-20....

There are massive EV turnout gaps in some of the most Latino, Working-Class and heavily Democratic precincts within CD-08....

Look at the EV numbers from the following precincts: Butler, Dysart, Glencroft, Goodyear, and Surprise for example....

We can roll through various other precincts with relatively large Working-Class Latino populations, from places around El Mirage, Goodyear and the Southern precincts of Glendale within CD-08, and we similar patterns....

Sure, this election will be most likely won or lost on how heavily Anglo Seniors, Upper-Income, and Middle-Class voters swing in a special election, but at this point I'm not seeing the turnout from the relatively minor sliver of Working-Class Latino communities yet to indicate the same level of enthusiasm that we saw in the '16 General Election where Donald Trump and Sheriff Joe were both on the ballot....
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LimoLiberal
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« Reply #206 on: April 23, 2018, 07:55:26 AM »

BREAKING: New Emerson Poll (they had a previous poll last week showing Tiperneni +1)



Tiperneni (D) - 43 (-3)
Lesko (R) - 49 (+4)

Fits very well with the Democrats losing ground on the generic ballot.
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LimoLiberal
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« Reply #207 on: April 23, 2018, 08:04:54 AM »

BREAKING: New Emerson Poll (they had a previous poll last week showing Tiperneni +1)



Tiperneni (D) - 43 (-3)
Lesko (R) - 49 (+4)

Fits very well with the Democrats losing ground on the generic ballot.

Can yall mods do something useful and ban Andrew yet

I was unaware that losing a district by Arpaio-Penzone numbers constituted a disaster.

1. I'm not Andrew.
2. When did I say it would be a disaster to lose it by 6 points? I think that would be a great result for Democrats (15 point swing).
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BudgieForce
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« Reply #208 on: April 23, 2018, 08:05:29 AM »

No Limo. It's clear Emerson effed up on their last poll and have released a more accurate one. The early vote is pretty clear this isn't going to be that close. This has nothing to do with the generic ballot.

Edit: Apparently Emerson even admitted they changed their methodology because of the early vote.
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« Reply #209 on: April 23, 2018, 08:08:56 AM »

How much did Flake win this district by in 2012?
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KingSweden
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« Reply #210 on: April 23, 2018, 08:35:10 AM »

I think the other evidence suggests this is probably around where the race winds up
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Gass3268
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« Reply #211 on: April 23, 2018, 08:42:03 AM »

No Limo. It's clear Emerson effed up on their last poll and have released a more accurate one. The early vote is pretty clear this isn't going to be that close. This has nothing to do with the generic ballot.

Edit: Apparently Emerson even admitted they changed their methodology because of the early vote.

Pollsters shoudn't do this.
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KingSweden
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« Reply #212 on: April 23, 2018, 08:58:51 AM »

No Limo. It's clear Emerson effed up on their last poll and have released a more accurate one. The early vote is pretty clear this isn't going to be that close. This has nothing to do with the generic ballot.

Edit: Apparently Emerson even admitted they changed their methodology because of the early vote.

Pollsters shoudn't do this.

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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #213 on: April 23, 2018, 09:01:25 AM »

No Limo. It's clear Emerson effed up on their last poll and have released a more accurate one. The early vote is pretty clear this isn't going to be that close. This has nothing to do with the generic ballot.

Edit: Apparently Emerson even admitted they changed their methodology because of the early vote.

Pollsters shoudn't do this.


If they thought their previous methodology was flawed, fixing it is the right thing to do (as long as they're transparent about it).
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IceSpear
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« Reply #214 on: April 23, 2018, 09:09:44 AM »

Republicans need to win this district by at least 20 points in the Senate race to have a shot at winning overall. But I can't wait for the hot takes about how Lesko winning by 9 points or whatever spells DOOM for Sinema.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #215 on: April 23, 2018, 09:40:37 AM »

Republicans need to win this district by at least 20 points in the Senate race to have a shot at winning overall. But I can't wait for the hot takes about how Lesko winning by 9 points or whatever spells DOOM for Sinema.

You need to get back on the ball, we’ve already said this haha

TEH BLUE WAVE IS DED LEAKO GOT 55%

Not that extrapolating that to the House races wouldn't be mind numbingly idiotic as well considering the PVI, but it would be even worse for the Senate race due to basic geography, lol.

Like how some people said Wolf was in trouble because a poll showed him with negative approval in PA-18.
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Badger
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« Reply #216 on: April 23, 2018, 11:32:43 AM »

BREAKING: New Emerson Poll (they had a previous poll last week showing Tiperneni +1)



Tiperneni (D) - 43 (-3)
Lesko (R) - 49 (+4)

Fits very well with the Democrats losing ground on the generic ballot.

Can yall mods do something useful and ban Andrew yet

I was unaware that losing a district by Arpaio-Penzone numbers constituted a disaster.

1. I'm not Andrew.
2. When did I say it would be a disaster to lose it by 6 points? I think that would be a great result for Democrats (15 point swing).


You are lying regarding number one
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LimoLiberal
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« Reply #217 on: April 23, 2018, 11:35:40 AM »

BREAKING: New Emerson Poll (they had a previous poll last week showing Tiperneni +1)



Tiperneni (D) - 43 (-3)
Lesko (R) - 49 (+4)

Fits very well with the Democrats losing ground on the generic ballot.

Can yall mods do something useful and ban Andrew yet

I was unaware that losing a district by Arpaio-Penzone numbers constituted a disaster.

1. I'm not Andrew.
2. When did I say it would be a disaster to lose it by 6 points? I think that would be a great result for Democrats (15 point swing).


You are lying regarding number one

Virginia? Is there any way I can prove that I'm not this Andrew guy? Because it's getting annoying.
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Badger
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« Reply #218 on: April 23, 2018, 11:36:45 AM »

Nova, without my directly replying to your long, though very very informative and interesting, posts, about what share of Republican voters defecting from Lesco, combined with what share of democratic voters Lesco picks up, do you calculate as necessary for Lesco to lose if she only carries 40% of independent voters? I really don't know the details on the ground for registered Independents in Arizona and this District in particular tend to vote, but based on polls I have seen nationwide at least, a 60/40 split for a Democrat seems quite doable in this political environment.
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« Reply #219 on: April 23, 2018, 11:38:06 AM »
« Edited: April 23, 2018, 11:41:40 AM by Roy Moore »

I love how LL thinks that the race or the generic ballot have changed. People don't change their minds every 5 seconds. Pretty much every American has had the same view on the race since the beginning. Has LL even ever talked to another person before? He seems to fail to understand how humans think. The race has probably always been +6 Lesko (I think it's +8 Lesko actually).

Seriously it's so bizarre how atlas thinks people actually change their opinions on anything. I feel like Atlas as a whole doesn't talk to people in real life if they think this. Unless there's a big event like the GOP proving they have no idea what they're doing in health care, people mostly believe the same things until something major happens.

Also Emerson is the polling firm that had Moore + 8, so they seem to be a junk polling firm anyways. Idk if the firm Tipi used is good but it had the race at 46-46 with 8% people refusing to say so that's probably junk as well.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #220 on: April 23, 2018, 01:47:31 PM »

BREAKING: New Emerson Poll (they had a previous poll last week showing Tiperneni +1)

Tiperneni (D) - 43 (-3)
Lesko (R) - 49 (+4)

Looks about right. That's also what I predicted in the prediction thread.

Would still be a very nice swing of 15 points for the Dems. Easily enough to win the Senate seat in November.
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Matty
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« Reply #221 on: April 23, 2018, 01:48:25 PM »

Why is this race getting so much less attention that ga 6 and pa 18?
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #222 on: April 23, 2018, 01:49:25 PM »

Why is this race getting so much less attention that ga 6 and pa 18?

It's a lot less competitive. There was even less attention paid to the South Carolina and Kansas special elections.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #223 on: April 23, 2018, 01:56:13 PM »

There are 3 things that - while unlikely - could still lead to a surprisingly close race tomorrow:

* a surge of election-day voters, making up more of the overall votes than usual

* Tirippinenninni getting 70% of Independents

* Tripinininineni getting many Republican defectors

... or a combination of these points.
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« Reply #224 on: April 23, 2018, 02:03:07 PM »

can't wait for atlas to do it's thing and overanalyze the results as they come in!
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