Describe a typical Italian American and Russian American conservative

[King of Kensington]

To what extent are they fiscal, social, law and order, populist etc.?

[King of Kensington]

Just to clarify, I mean both a typical Italian American and Russian American conservative, not a half-Italian/half-Russian one!

[bagelman]

Both of them could easily be NYC area Trumpist populists.

[Dr. MB]

Rudy Giuliani

[Thunderbird is the word]

Socially moderate (Generally okay with gay marriage but may still be somewhat okay with making homophobic jokes) Mixed on Abortion, generally depending on how religious they are. May be okay with marijuana personally but it's outweighed by a general law and order attitude and support for tough on crime policies. Hawkish on foreign policy and fiscally conservative.

[muon2]

It's no longer a very useful question. When I was young in the 70s it meant something politically to talk about Italian Americans as a group. Today, at least in the Midwest, there is little reason to do so. Chicago had a large Italian immigrant population and initially they were associated with certain neighborhoods and inner suburbs. Those areas had documented voting patterns even 40 years ago. None of that is true today.

The Itailian American population dispersed into the larger white population decades ago. With that dispersion was a diffusion of political beliefs. The state legislature has Italian Americans in both parties. This year the son of a former Dem Senator was running as a Pub.

Eventually the media will come to understand that after three generations there is little use in distinguishing groups based on their European ancestry.

[King of Kensington]

Yeah, it's interesting to note that the collar counties of Chicago don't really have a "white ethnic" character, in contrast to the Northeast.  There are big Polish immigrant areas of NW Chicago and adjacent suburbs however, and some Italian ethnic presence there too.

[muon2]

Yeah, it's interesting to note that the collar counties of Chicago don't really have a "white ethnic" character, in contrast to the Northeast.  There are big Polish immigrant areas of NW Chicago and adjacent suburbs however, and some Italian ethnic presence there too.

But even in the city the early 20th century European immigrant communities are politically indistinguishable from the larger white city population. Only the post Cold War European immigrants can be said to have any cohesion. Religiousness is a much better indicator of political behavior. That goes to my point that it would be fine to ask for a country of birth for an individual or their parents, but it has little relevance beyond that. Even the Chicago Polish community is mostly pre-WW2 and is fully assimilated. The Census is barred from asking about religion, which might help your line of questions.

[King of Kensington]

30% of Polish Americans in Cook County still speak Polish at home, so there are obviously still a lot of first and second generation Poles around (that number certainly exceeds 30% as many 2nd generation speak English at home).  I'm pretty sure the "Polish neighborhoods" of NW Chicago are largely post-1980 immigrants, not assimilated fourth generation Americans who are half-Polish or something.  That group has moved off to McHenry County etc.  And as I previously said, the collar counties don't really have an "ethnic" character.

https://statisticalatlas.com/county/Illinois/Cook-County/Languages

It would be interesting to know how Polish immigrants vote.

[King of Kensington]

Typical Russian Jewish conservative:  Very pro-Israel, not that religious but a strong sense of Jewish peoplehood, admires Reagan for bringing down Communism, sees Democrats as anti-free market and too close to the Soviet Union and "against Israel."

Typical Italian American conservative:  Very pro-"law and order", hates "political correctness" and admires "successful businessmen" over "eggheads" and "career politicians", can go from agnostic to anti-abortion depending on degree on religiosity. 

[muon2]

30% of Polish Americans in Cook County still speak Polish at home, so there are obviously still a lot of first and second generation Poles around (that number certainly exceeds 30% as many 2nd generation speak English at home).  I'm pretty sure the "Polish neighborhoods" of NW Chicago are largely post-1980 immigrants, not assimilated fourth generation Americans who are half-Polish or something.  That group has moved off to McHenry County etc.  And as I previously said, the collar counties don't really have an "ethnic" character.

https://statisticalatlas.com/county/Illinois/Cook-County/Languages

It would be interesting to know how Polish immigrants vote.

The Polish neighborhoods are not mostly post 1980, they are older than average. Immigrants will join those neighborhoods because there are stores that cater to their language. My mother grew up in one (half her high school class was Polish). The link shows that over half the Polish-speaking households don't speak it well. I can tell you that means they aren't close to fluent. In terms of voting, they vote with their parish if they are observant, or with the machine if they have ties to jobs - basically the same as the German ancestry families in the same neighborhood.

[King of Kensington]

No, the link shows that half of the Polish speakers don't speak English very well.

[muon2]

No, the link shows that half of the Polish speakers don't speak English very well.

My error, but I've walked those neighborhoods, and I can tell you that the weak English speakers among Poles are mostly those who are much older than the general population. When I talk to them, I find they came over a long time ago, but were old enough that they never became fluent in English. Even among the 1980s immigrant population, the rates did not remain as high into this century, so their children are generally assimilated adults who can speak with their parents as they need to.

[King of Kensington]

There's still a lot of Polish immigrants around in Chicago and it seems pretty obvious to me that anyone speaking Polish at home nowadays would not be descended from the "old" turn of the 20th century Polish American population. 

How these post-WWII Poles vote - I don't know.

[smoltchanov]

As long as "Russian conservatives" (though these descriptions doesn't describe a very conservative person in general) are concerned - generally correct. Keep in mind, that these are still "westernized conservatives" - native Russian population in Russia, for example, is, generally, substantially more conservative on social and foreign policy issues, while being more populist (and "egalitarian") on economy.

[jimrtex]

There's still a lot of Polish immigrants around in Chicago and it seems pretty obvious to me that anyone speaking Polish at home nowadays would not be descended from the "old" turn of the 20th century Polish American population. 

How these post-WWII Poles vote - I don't know.

Of the 65 places with more than 1000 persons that speak some Polish at home, 38 are in Illinois.

The question asked by the ACS is about whether a person speaks some Polish at home. The instructions say that this is more than just a few phrases or slang terms. But it doesn't mean exclusively Polish.

[Suburbia]

Italian American and Russian American conservatives reside in NY, NJ, CT, PA, MA, FL, GA, CA.

They are pro-law and order conservatives. Some of them support Blue Lives Matter, and they voted for Donald Trump for president in 2016.

They live in middle-class areas in NY/NJ

White middle class neighborhoods like Eltingville, Staten Island, Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, etc.

[King of Kensington]

There's still a lot of Polish immigrants around in Chicago and it seems pretty obvious to me that anyone speaking Polish at home nowadays would not be descended from the "old" turn of the 20th century Polish American population. 

How these post-WWII Poles vote - I don't know.

Of the 65 places with more than 1000 persons that speak some Polish at home, 38 are in Illinois.

The question asked by the ACS is about whether a person speaks some Polish at home. The instructions say that this is more than just a few phrases or slang terms. But it doesn't mean exclusively Polish.

No but fluency in Polish would suggest in most cases relatively descended from recent immigration if not necessarily "off the boat."

Contrast the number of Polish speakers in the Chicago area as compared to say Detroit or Buffalo where the Polish American population is nearly all descended from the Ellis Island wave of immigration.

[King of Kensington]

Although the post-war immigration was modest compared to European immigration waves, a lot of European "ethnic" neighborhoods are concentrations of the most recent, not the descendants of 100 years ago.

For instance, Astoria, Queens is 1960s/1970s Greeks not Ellis Island Greeks.  Many Italian areas in NYC like Bensonhurst, Howard Beach and Whitestone are largely made up of post-war Italians (this is evident in the large number of Italian speakers in those areas).  The "old Italian ethnics" from 100 years ago are living in some suburb 50 miles from Manhattan.  The main Irish neighborhood in NYC - Woodlawn - is largely made up of more recent Irish immigrants, not fifth generation Irish Americans descended from the Famine era  It's the same with Chicago's Poles - more "real Polish" in NW Chicago and adjacent suburbs, with the Polish Americans living completely assimilated lifestyles in the collar counties. 

[jimrtex]

There's still a lot of Polish immigrants around in Chicago and it seems pretty obvious to me that anyone speaking Polish at home nowadays would not be descended from the "old" turn of the 20th century Polish American population. 

How these post-WWII Poles vote - I don't know.

Of the 65 places with more than 1000 persons that speak some Polish at home, 38 are in Illinois.

The question asked by the ACS is about whether a person speaks some Polish at home. The instructions say that this is more than just a few phrases or slang terms. But it doesn't mean exclusively Polish.

No but fluency in Polish would suggest in most cases relatively descended from recent immigration if not necessarily "off the boat."

Contrast the number of Polish speakers in the Chicago area as compared to say Detroit or Buffalo where the Polish American population is nearly all descended from the Ellis Island wave of immigration.

Speaking some Polish at home does not require fluency.

24.8% of Polish speakers reside in Cook County, but only 18% of those in Chicago. 2.84% of Cook County residents speak some Polish at home.

The only counties close are Hartford, CT 2.24%, Bergen, NJ 1.97%, and DuPage, IL 1.93%.

As you drop off on the concentration towards 0.5% you begin picking up other suburban counties of Chicago, such as McHenry, Will, and Lake, but extending out to Putnam and Kane.

You have counties in Connecticut, including Tolland and Middlesex, along with Hampden, MA.

You have almost every county in New Jersey, slightly more concentrated in Bergen, Passaic, and and Union, but spreading out into Hunterdon, and Cape May.

IN New York, the highest concentrations are in Queens and Staten Island, but extending outward to Suffolk, Orange, Dutchess, and Fairfield, CT.

Monroe, Pike, and Carbon, PA all in the northeastern corner.

Higher concentration and numbers in Macomb, then Oakland, and finally Wayne. I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers in Macomb now exceed those in Hamtramck.

At a state level, Florida is 5th in numbers, and Texas, Arizona, and California are all in top 15 with 1% of the total.

Either those totally assimilated Polish Americans continue to speak some Polish at home in their tract homes in El Rancho Polonia, or there are lots of "real Polish" living in the suburbs.

[King of Kensington]

If one is still speaking "some Polish" at home then you're not "totally" assimilated IMO.

[jimrtex]

If one is still speaking "some Polish" at home then you're not "totally" assimilated IMO.

Phoenix, Arizona and Sarasota, Florida have populations that speak "some Polish at home". Perhaps there is chain retirement, where parishioners from back in Chicago or New Jersey moved to the same retirement community.

How many Catholic Churches in Chicagoland have masses in Polish? Given how their church and language helped preserve their identifies from the folks from the east and west in Europe when there weren't any physical barriers and sometimes no army, use of Polish might be important even if it doesn't have utility at work or school.

There is a small concentration of Polish speakers in Karnes County, TX associated with Panna Maria which was settled in 1854. This is not Pre-WWII or Pre-WWI, but pre-Civil War.