Lord of the Rings or Star Wars... the objectively better setting & story?

[Blue3]

Lord of the Rings or Star Wars... the objectively better setting/universe & story

...NOT necessarily your personal favorite?

The final round, the best of fantasy and science-fiction (if you disagree, you should have voted in earlier rounds!)
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=286444.0



Note: just deleted a double I made by mistake

[CatoMinor]

I truly love Star Wars, but Tolkien blows Lucas out of the water with story telling and world building.

[Lechasseur]

Lord of the Rings

[MasterJedi]

Star Wars with the old EU really blows out anything Tolkien has done with world building placing it all together.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I truly love Star Wars, but Tolkien blows Lucas out of the water with story telling and world building.

[NewYorkExpress]

Star Wars has better story, but you can't top Middle Earth for setting.

[nicholas.slaydon]

I truly love Star Wars, but Tolkien blows Lucas out of the water with story telling and world building.

[Blue3]

Star Wars with the old EU really blows out anything Tolkien has done with world building placing it all together.

Why do you think so? I'm a big fan of both, but even the Old EU never matched the depth of Tolkien's works, and that's with dozens of authors.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Star Wars with the old EU really blows out anything Tolkien has done with world building placing it all together.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Without a single doubt, Tolkein. Star Wars is nice, but please, Tolkein's work is a masterpiece of creation and storytelling.

[Mr. Smith]

Star Wars

If it was just the movies vs the books, yeah, Tolkien easily defeats Lucas.

But what the EU is, all the possibilities of Star Wars, and all the things shown rather than told...has to go to Star Wars.

Not to mention the Prequels and even Sequels were simply better than The Hobbit Trilogy.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's upsetting that this is even a thread, let alone that people in it are expressing Incorrect and Wrong opinions. The Lord of the Rings is a legitimately great and important novel not just because of the extraordinary imagination required to create it, but in other ways as well: it's narrative structure is fiendish in its complexity and satisfying in its resolution, its descriptive passages are extremely strong  and its central characters are beautifully and realistically rendered. The book engages with a wide range of philosophical (esp. philosophy of language!), historical and theological themes, and also with the author's own personal history on the Western Front. Additionally, the sense of landscape and of place that Tolkien was able to create can't be praised enough; I'll go so far as to compare his abilities in this regard to those of Lawrence. It isn't everyone's cup of tea, of course, but then no novel ever can be. Star Wars is candyfloss: enjoyable enough but not very substantial (and neither is it supposed to be). Comparing the two is a great example of the worst sort of cultural relativism.

[RINO Tom]

Easily LOTR

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I can certainly see why somebody wouldn't enjoy LOTR's narrative: I'm not hugely into high fantasy myself, and I remember when I first tried to slog my way through them as a teen I thought it was pompous, self-indulgent nonsense (I have changed my opinion since then, but I still refuse to believe Tom Bombadil represents anything but a huge slap in the face to the reader). That said, your question talks about setting and it's hard to even say the comparison even holds up upon scrutiny. The Star Wars Universe exists to serve the Narrative (and although I have never read the EU, I don't really think the Universe is any more complicated than any other long running soft sci-fi franchise like Star Trek or Doctor Who). Middle Earth is ... another matter entirely. I won't pretend to have read the millions of appendixes and densely packed mythos but they are clearly the work of an obsessive intellectual crafting his own  finely tuned world. Star Wars never rose to such a level, and when it tried to craft a narrative deeper than Good Vs Bad (with all the political intrigue in the prequels) it kind of managed to be both tedious and fairly stupid.

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

It's upsetting that this is even a thread, let alone that people in it are expressing Incorrect and Wrong opinions. The Lord of the Rings is a legitimately great and important novel not just because of the extraordinary imagination required to create it, but in other ways as well: it's narrative structure is fiendish in its complexity and satisfying in its resolution, its descriptive passages are extremely strong  and its central characters are beautifully and realistically rendered. The book engages with a wide range of philosophical (esp. philosophy of language!), historical and theological themes, and also with the author's own personal history on the Western Front. Additionally, the sense of landscape and of place that Tolkien was able to create can't be praised enough; I'll go so far as to compare his abilities in this regard to those of Lawrence. It isn't everyone's cup of tea, of course, but then no novel ever can be. Star Wars is candyfloss: enjoyable enough but not very substantial (and neither is it supposed to be). Comparing the two is a great example of the worst sort of cultural relativism.

It's only candyfloss if we limit Star Wars to the source material narrative. If you include the EU, the range of themes becomes boundless. KOTOR II alone is a masterclass in themes of Nihlism married with Eastern theological and philosophical traditions. And that's just one video game.

[Blue3]

It's upsetting that this is even a thread, let alone that people in it are expressing Incorrect and Wrong opinions. The Lord of the Rings is a legitimately great and important novel not just because of the extraordinary imagination required to create it, but in other ways as well: it's narrative structure is fiendish in its complexity and satisfying in its resolution, its descriptive passages are extremely strong  and its central characters are beautifully and realistically rendered. The book engages with a wide range of philosophical (esp. philosophy of language!), historical and theological themes, and also with the author's own personal history on the Western Front. Additionally, the sense of landscape and of place that Tolkien was able to create can't be praised enough; I'll go so far as to compare his abilities in this regard to those of Lawrence. It isn't everyone's cup of tea, of course, but then no novel ever can be. Star Wars is candyfloss: enjoyable enough but not very substantial (and neither is it supposed to be). Comparing the two is a great example of the worst sort of cultural relativism.

It's only candyfloss if we limit Star Wars to the source material narrative. If you include the EU, the range of themes becomes boundless. KOTOR II alone is a masterclass in themes of Nihlism married with Eastern theological and philosophical traditions. And that's just one video game.

I love Star Wars, but are you sure you aren't letting nostalgia color your perception of old stories? There's good ideas and themes, and there's good execution of those ideas. Does Star Wars really have the better-quality narrative?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

It's upsetting that this is even a thread, let alone that people in it are expressing Incorrect and Wrong opinions. The Lord of the Rings is a legitimately great and important novel not just because of the extraordinary imagination required to create it, but in other ways as well: it's narrative structure is fiendish in its complexity and satisfying in its resolution, its descriptive passages are extremely strong  and its central characters are beautifully and realistically rendered. The book engages with a wide range of philosophical (esp. philosophy of language!), historical and theological themes, and also with the author's own personal history on the Western Front. Additionally, the sense of landscape and of place that Tolkien was able to create can't be praised enough; I'll go so far as to compare his abilities in this regard to those of Lawrence. It isn't everyone's cup of tea, of course, but then no novel ever can be. Star Wars is candyfloss: enjoyable enough but not very substantial (and neither is it supposed to be). Comparing the two is a great example of the worst sort of cultural relativism.

Amen

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

It's upsetting that this is even a thread, let alone that people in it are expressing Incorrect and Wrong opinions. The Lord of the Rings is a legitimately great and important novel not just because of the extraordinary imagination required to create it, but in other ways as well: it's narrative structure is fiendish in its complexity and satisfying in its resolution, its descriptive passages are extremely strong  and its central characters are beautifully and realistically rendered. The book engages with a wide range of philosophical (esp. philosophy of language!), historical and theological themes, and also with the author's own personal history on the Western Front. Additionally, the sense of landscape and of place that Tolkien was able to create can't be praised enough; I'll go so far as to compare his abilities in this regard to those of Lawrence. It isn't everyone's cup of tea, of course, but then no novel ever can be. Star Wars is candyfloss: enjoyable enough but not very substantial (and neither is it supposed to be). Comparing the two is a great example of the worst sort of cultural relativism.

It's only candyfloss if we limit Star Wars to the source material narrative. If you include the EU, the range of themes becomes boundless. KOTOR II alone is a masterclass in themes of Nihlism married with Eastern theological and philosophical traditions. And that's just one video game.

I love Star Wars, but are you sure you aren't letting nostalgia color your perception of old stories? There's good ideas and themes, and there's good execution of those ideas. Does Star Wars really have the better-quality narrative?

I'm not arguing that Star Wars is of more merit but rather contesting the assertion that pop culture-focused media in general has to be candyfloss compared to the great works of art(tm).

[Mr. Smith]

It's upsetting that this is even a thread, let alone that people in it are expressing Incorrect and Wrong opinions. The Lord of the Rings is a legitimately great and important novel not just because of the extraordinary imagination required to create it, but in other ways as well: it's narrative structure is fiendish in its complexity and satisfying in its resolution, its descriptive passages are extremely strong  and its central characters are beautifully and realistically rendered. The book engages with a wide range of philosophical (esp. philosophy of language!), historical and theological themes, and also with the author's own personal history on the Western Front. Additionally, the sense of landscape and of place that Tolkien was able to create can't be praised enough; I'll go so far as to compare his abilities in this regard to those of Lawrence. It isn't everyone's cup of tea, of course, but then no novel ever can be. Star Wars is candyfloss: enjoyable enough but not very substantial (and neither is it supposed to be). Comparing the two is a great example of the worst sort of cultural relativism.

It's only candyfloss if we limit Star Wars to the source material narrative. If you include the EU, the range of themes becomes boundless. KOTOR II alone is a masterclass in themes of Nihlism married with Eastern theological and philosophical traditions. And that's just one video game.

I love Star Wars, but are you sure you aren't letting nostalgia color your perception of old stories? There's good ideas and themes, and there's good execution of those ideas. Does Star Wars really have the better-quality narrative?

I'm not arguing that Star Wars is of more merit but rather contesting the assertion that pop culture-focused media in general has to be candyfloss compared to the great works of art(tm).

It's also kinda funny how this argument is being thrown with LoTR as being "above candyfloss" when it was criticized precisely for being exactly that when it came out...and then it had a crazy boom in the '70's 'round Tolkien's death...as a counterculture element.

The journey from hated to pop-culture to elitist is truly a remarkable one.

[courts]

I have changed my opinion since then, but I still refuse to believe Tom Bombadil represents anything but a huge slap in the face to the reader

why do you hate fun?

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's upsetting that this is even a thread, let alone that people in it are expressing Incorrect and Wrong opinions. The Lord of the Rings is a legitimately great and important novel not just because of the extraordinary imagination required to create it, but in other ways as well: it's narrative structure is fiendish in its complexity and satisfying in its resolution, its descriptive passages are extremely strong  and its central characters are beautifully and realistically rendered. The book engages with a wide range of philosophical (esp. philosophy of language!), historical and theological themes, and also with the author's own personal history on the Western Front. Additionally, the sense of landscape and of place that Tolkien was able to create can't be praised enough; I'll go so far as to compare his abilities in this regard to those of Lawrence. It isn't everyone's cup of tea, of course, but then no novel ever can be. Star Wars is candyfloss: enjoyable enough but not very substantial (and neither is it supposed to be). Comparing the two is a great example of the worst sort of cultural relativism.

Have you ever read the old EU from Star Wars

[courts]

Have you ever read the old EU from Star Wars

al doesn't read goonfic

[Meclazine for Israel]

Lord of the Rings by a country mile.

The guy was a genius to come up with that.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's also kinda funny how this argument is being thrown with LoTR as being "above candyfloss" when it was criticized precisely for being exactly that when it came out...and then it had a crazy boom in the '70's 'round Tolkien's death...as a counterculture element.

The journey from hated to pop-culture to elitist is truly a remarkable one.

When LotR was first published its principle cheerleader was none other than W.H. Auden. The main reason why the book annoyed (and annoys) a certain type of literary snob was (is) because its literary merit is so immediately obvious, which is rather inconvenient if you have a hang up about 'genre fiction' and its supposed lack of worth. Try again.

[Blue3]

It's upsetting that this is even a thread, let alone that people in it are expressing Incorrect and Wrong opinions. The Lord of the Rings is a legitimately great and important novel not just because of the extraordinary imagination required to create it, but in other ways as well: it's narrative structure is fiendish in its complexity and satisfying in its resolution, its descriptive passages are extremely strong  and its central characters are beautifully and realistically rendered. The book engages with a wide range of philosophical (esp. philosophy of language!), historical and theological themes, and also with the author's own personal history on the Western Front. Additionally, the sense of landscape and of place that Tolkien was able to create can't be praised enough; I'll go so far as to compare his abilities in this regard to those of Lawrence. It isn't everyone's cup of tea, of course, but then no novel ever can be. Star Wars is candyfloss: enjoyable enough but not very substantial (and neither is it supposed to be). Comparing the two is a great example of the worst sort of cultural relativism.

Have you ever read the old EU from Star Wars

I have obsessively read it, I love a lot of it, but it pales to Tolkien.