NYPD: Man with pipe fatally shot by officers in Brooklyn

[BoAtlantis]

Well, from what we know about him, he wasn’t in his right mind; however, based on the images, it looks fairly apparent that the way in which he held and pointed the showerhead looked like—and was intended to look like—a gun.

And yet whites with actual loaded guns are being arrested without harm, a cop should be able to tell the difference between a gun and a pipe, period. Funny how this man likely had a mental illness but his complexion doesn't afford him that excuse.

^^^^ This.

I think a major part of what we're learning with all these shootings is that police need a lot more training if we're going to have them be the first responders to psychotic breaks. As someone who has had relatives have psychotic breaks, the cops are who you're told to call when it's dangerous to you or others, and if it's not dangerous to you or others, there's not anything anyone can do unless you can convince them to get help voluntarily. Sorry, slight rant.

Anyway, the police need more training if we're going to continue to put them in these positions of quasi-counselors, etc. There's been a study that shows in stressful situations, people fall back on their training, which is generally good. However, most police have the most training in how to shoot someone, not how to deal with mental health issues or how to deescalate properly. Then, of course, there is also the race issue which is extremely problematic, and while no amount of training can solve racism, I think it might help, especially if coupled with much more vigorous deescalation training.

Tl;dr: Training isn't a panacea, but police need to have significantly more training in deescalation techniques, mental health, and various other issues before we send them out. It won't solve these issues, but it would be a start.

Supreme Court has ruled on a number of occasions that police have no legal duty to protect individuals; they only need to protect the public at large. (See Warren v. District of Columbia)

If the court punishes cops behavior for abuses, more of them will be afraid to act abusively. The root of the problem starts from our government and legal system that give cops too much authority. Training doesn't really mean a whole lot if they don't want to take even an ounce of risk. Thus it becomes citizens' duty to fully obey or potentially die. Unfortunately, that's the way courts seem to view it.

Warren wasn’t a Supreme Court case.

You're right. I misremembered it.

[BoAtlantis]

And yet whites with actual loaded guns are being arrested without harm, a cop should be able to tell the difference between a gun and a pipe, period. Funny how this man likely had a mental illness but his complexion doesn't afford him that excuse.

If the title was: “Police see man holding gun and pointing it at them, and shoot him”
Would you say: “They shouldn’t have shot a guy with a mental illness.”?

Police can’t tell in a split second decision if someone has a mental illness. If a man points a gun or an object that looks like a gun at police officers, he will be shot. I’ve always been taught to respect police officers, not to move at them except at a slow walk, and to always be sure they can see your hands. I have a white aunt who saw my mother pulled over by a cop many years; she was pregnant at the time, had her husband circle around to behind the cop, and she jumped out and started running to explain to the cop what had happened. The police officer drew his gun and almost shot her - the only reason he didn’t is because she was visibly pregnant and nearly waddling. The point is, you don’t move in a manner that could possibly be taken as threatening around cops. You don’t duck your head so they can’t quite look at you. You don’t suddenly move or suddenly stick your hands in your pockets. Police are preemptive, cautious, and vigilant, because they know that every day they go to work, they might not return to their families.

Seems like slave mentality.

If a cop puts his hand in the pocket to take something out, is an individual allowed to shoot him? Where is our self-defense rights by that logic?

For example, we are not allowed to shoot someone that might be holding a brick in an odd way from a considerable distance. We can't shoot a bystander that moves strangely coming toward us. You can't coldly murder someone then claim self-defense as a cop out. Self-defense is defense against clear aggression.

If your retort is that those don't show aggression but that cops can't take chances, then you have the burden to prove why cops should not enjoy the same moral standard. Are our lives inferior to cops' lives? Should people not get to go home to their family as well just because they don't comply with people that behave similarly to Nazi Germany?

[ProudModerate2]

When one is presented with an issue of a police shooting, one should ask themselves whether the perpetrator, for whatever they did, deserved to die for that. The answer is usually no. This was a dumb thing to do, but did he deserve to die for it? Probably not.

That's not what the police are there to determine. They're there to determine how to keep the public safe.
In this case, they had a clear view of him pointing what looked very much like a gun at passer-bys.

But it wasn't an actual gun. Shouldn't they determine that before doing something as egregious as shooting him to death? Arrest him if you need to. That's fine. An officer should take whatever precautions they need to but it still seems impulsive to shoot him to death.

Ideally, they would have time to determine that, yeah. In this situation, though, they were called with a report of a gun and they rolled up to see him pointing that "gun" at the heads of passerbys. It's an undeniably tragic situation, yes, but one where waiting could have resulted in many more dead people.

I agree with Ray Goldfield here.
When you look at the image in Reply#1 (the post immediately following the OP), at a quick glance it does look like a gun.
If he is running around this neighborhood like a crazy-dude, there was probably little-to-no time to evaluate the situation with 100% certainty of what exactly he was holding. The final result is sad, but I can't blame the police in this incident.

If there is additional and clear video that shows other circumstances yet to be seen, then opinions can/will change on this matter.
I would like to know if it was possible for the authorities to "corner him" in a specific area, where they and the public were safe at a distance, and then for them to better evaluate the situation (and maybe talk to him) before shooting.