Anti-Semitism in UK Labour megathread

[BBD]

there's the whataboutery!  We've been missing it the last few pages.

Do you deny that your label applies to the Tories? Or are you an unprincipled hypocrite?

[dead0man]

there's the whataboutery!  We've been missing it the last few pages.

Do you deny that your label applies to the Tories? Or are you an unprincipled hypocrite?

I have no idea, are they as obviously racist as Labour is?  Being for secure borders is not racist in and of itself.  Are there pictures of their leader at a celebration for racist murderers?

[BBD]

there's the whataboutery!  We've been missing it the last few pages.

Do you deny that your label applies to the Tories? Or are you an unprincipled hypocrite?

I have no idea, are they as obviously racist as Labour is?  Being for secure borders is not racist in and of itself.  Are there pictures of their leader at a celebration for racist murderers?

Dunno, dead0, Tory MEPs being whipped into overwhelming support of a blatantly anti-semitic government seems to be obvious enough to me.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/opinion/article-viktor-orbans-war-on-george-soros-and-hungarys-jews/

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And...
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservatives-victor-orban-hungary-eu-parliament-vote-mep-group-europe-a8535511.html

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Also, a side point: Pretty interesting that Netanyahu is so buddy buddy with Orban. Guess antisemitism is totally fine as long as you're a right-wing ally. And leftist Jews such as Soros aren't considered "real" Jews. Reminds me of the insane criticism blared through the British media of Jeremy Corbyn's Seder meeting with a leftist Jewish group. It would have been totally A-okay if it had been a right-wing group, though...no, wait, he would have still been criticized somehow or another.

[dead0man]

so...everybody in the eastern hemisphere is an anti-Semite, even the leader of Israel.....sheesh!

[DC Al Fine]

Jeremy Corbyn adviser suggests 'deep state' working to stop Labour government


https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/98348/jeremy-corbyn-adviser-suggests-deep-state-working

ahahahaahh, right, it's the "deep state" that makes them say bigoted things, support bigoted people and go to events that celebrate murderous bigots.   Do they expect people to keep buying their sh**t?  It's insane how poorly they've handled this.  Even if you're blind and stupid and don't think JC is a bigot, you can't be happy how he's handled it....right?  Unless you're bigot too of course, then you're going to say things like "it's the deep state" and "You can be anti-Israel without being anti-Semitic."   It's barely better than the non-bigots who'd just rather turn a blind eye to it all with a  "we shouldn't talk about this much because it's a 'serious' issue".

You'd have to be a bigot yourself or totally not care about bigotry against Jews to still vote for them at this point.  Kind of like Republicans!

'Deep state'? Hes about an inch away from complaining about some Jewish Capital conspiracy to suppress him.

so...everybody in the eastern hemisphere is an anti-Semite, even the leader of Israel.....sheesh!

That DavidB quip about how in certain leftist eyes, the only
 true anti-Semitic action is criticizing  George Soros seems apt here.

[DavidB.]

Lovely how it's so seldom British Jews who come up with the "buuuut Orbán!" whataboutery. Almost as if they don't think voting against sanctions for Hungary is antisemitic, or as if they think it doesn't compare to laying wreaths at terrorists' graves.

[DC Al Fine]

Lovely how it's so seldom British Jews who come up with the "buuuut Orbán!" whataboutery. Almost as if they don't think voting against sanctions for Hungary is antisemitic, or as if they think it doesn't compare to laying wreaths at terrorists' graves.

At least its educational. This kind of hackery is a fine counter-example to the notion that conservatives are uniquely vulnerable to promoting bigots and defending them no matter how obviously bad they are.

[BBD]

Jeremy Corbyn adviser suggests 'deep state' working to stop Labour government


https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/98348/jeremy-corbyn-adviser-suggests-deep-state-working

ahahahaahh, right, it's the "deep state" that makes them say bigoted things, support bigoted people and go to events that celebrate murderous bigots.  Do they expect people to keep buying their sh**t?  It's insane how poorly they've handled this.  Even if you're blind and stupid and don't think JC is a bigot, you can't be happy how he's handled it....right?  Unless you're bigot too of course, then you're going to say things like "it's the deep state" and "You can be anti-Israel without being anti-Semitic."   It's barely better than the non-bigots who'd just rather turn a blind eye to it all with a  "we shouldn't talk about this much because it's a 'serious' issue".

You'd have to be a bigot yourself or totally not care about bigotry against Jews to still vote for them at this point.  Kind of like Republicans!

'Deep state'? Hes about an inch away from complaining about some Jewish Capital conspiracy to suppress him.

so...everybody in the eastern hemisphere is an anti-Semite, even the leader of Israel.....sheesh!

That DavidB quip about how in certain leftist eyes, the only
 true anti-Semitic action is criticizing  George Soros seems apt here.

It would probably do you and some of the others well to purchase a couple pairs of reading glasses.

Once again:

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[Intell]

Jeremy Corbyn adviser suggests 'deep state' working to stop Labour government


https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/98348/jeremy-corbyn-adviser-suggests-deep-state-working

ahahahaahh, right, it's the "deep state" that makes them say bigoted things, support bigoted people and go to events that celebrate murderous bigots.  Do they expect people to keep buying their sh**t?  It's insane how poorly they've handled this.  Even if you're blind and stupid and don't think JC is a bigot, you can't be happy how he's handled it....right?  Unless you're bigot too of course, then you're going to say things like "it's the deep state" and "You can be anti-Israel without being anti-Semitic."   It's barely better than the non-bigots who'd just rather turn a blind eye to it all with a  "we shouldn't talk about this much because it's a 'serious' issue".

You'd have to be a bigot yourself or totally not care about bigotry against Jews to still vote for them at this point.  Kind of like Republicans!

'Deep state'? Hes about an inch away from complaining about some Jewish Capital conspiracy to suppress him.

so...everybody in the eastern hemisphere is an anti-Semite, even the leader of Israel.....sheesh!

That DavidB quip about how in certain leftist eyes, the only
 true anti-Semitic action is criticizing  George Soros seems apt here.

It would probably do you and some of the others well to purchase a couple pairs of reading glasses.

Once again:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Don't you know, left-wing cirticism of Israel is unacceptable but right-wing antisemetism is fine as long as zionism is supported.

[Horus]

https://twitter.com/JewishChron/status/1043824152610840576

Talk about a manufactured "crisis." Are you guys bored over there or something?

[cp]

Same rules about posting images apply here, too, Audrey.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://twitter.com/JewishChron/status/1043824152610840576

Talk about a manufactured "crisis." Are you guys bored over there or something?

They need something to distract the sheeple from how poorly Brexit is going.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

https://twitter.com/JewishChron/status/1043824152610840576

Talk about a manufactured "crisis." Are you guys bored over there or something?

They need something to distract the sheeple from how poorly Brexit is going.

Denial isn't going to work anymore. It's become far too unambiguous with an ugly track record going back decades. You two just look detached from reality.

[dead0man]

what option do they have at this point?  They've dug in and aren't going anywhere.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

The left is a worthless pile of garbage if it can't condemn this s**t.

[Slow Learner]

https://twitter.com/JewishChron/status/1043824152610840576

Talk about a manufactured "crisis." Are you guys bored over there or something?

They need something to distract the sheeple from how poorly Brexit is going.

Thanks for your input.

[Horus]

The left is a worthless pile of garbage if it can't condemn this s**t.

What exactly is there to condemn here? I haven't seen anything that bad.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

The left is a worthless pile of garbage if it can't condemn this s**t.

What exactly is there to condemn here? I haven't seen anything that bad.

Then you haven't been looking. Again, it's unambiguous and it goes back decades. Jeremy Corbyn believes Jews have no place in Israel and no place in Britain.

[EPG]

The left is a worthless pile of garbage if it can't condemn this s**t.

What exactly is there to condemn here? I haven't seen anything that bad.

Here's one thing to see: first about teaching Zionists a lesson when he calls out objectors to a comrade of his in a previous audience as "thankfully silent Zionists” ... who ... " clearly have two problems. One is they don’t want to study history, and secondly, having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all their lives, they don’t understand English irony either. So I think they needed two lessons which we can perhaps help them with".

Here's another: Corbyn promoted the campaign to retain this mural on a public wall. Erase it? "Why? You are in good company. Rockerfeller destroyed Diego Viera’s mural because it includes a picture of Lenin".



It's not exactly the story of a man living his best anti-racist life, is it? I'm not an extremist against Corbyn nor do I credit every story linking him to anti-Semitism, but the man does not try very hard to think of Jews as a group of people worth giving consideration to, regrettable because they are one of the more victimised groups in the UK nowadays.

[DavidB.]

At this point it has to be dogwhistling.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

At this point it has to be dogwhistling.

It's not so much a dog whistle as a bullhorn, but yeah, it's deliberate. He wants one side to know he supports their malevolent goals and he wants the other side to fear him.

[parochial boy]

Dunno that you can really make that claim with this on, on the basis that

a) I bet almost nobody knows who Ernest Jones is
b) even those who do know who he is would associate him almost exclusively with the chartist movement
c) The quote in question goes

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I might be missing something, but I am not really getting the dog-whistle there?

I mean, the points that EPG raised above about Corbyn are absolutely true and fair criticisms; as is attacking him for being too close to Chist Williamson or Peter Willsman.

But this one in particular, it's a bit like saying that everyone who professes to enjoy Wagner's music must be an anti-semite or a Nazi; or that quoting Kipling means you are racists and empire-apologist. I think trying to make a big deal about it speaks more to the partisan hackery of Guido Fawkes (a man with an incredibly dodgy backstory as far as outright racism is concerned) or the Sun journalists than ianything else.

[EPG]

Staines is a stain, trading out of the Caribbean's most secretive tax haven though I am sure he has not chosen Nevis of all places for tax efficiency purposes, with a habit of profiteering from homophobic slurs, and a criminal record and a regular repeat offender to boot. That he enjoys media fandom, and not just among the alt-media, is regrettable.

The poem falls precisely within the category of things that don't prove any ill will and probably don't matter, but that any other leader could more credibly brush aside.

[DavidB.]

But this one in particular, it's a bit like saying that everyone who professes to enjoy Wagner's music must be an anti-semite or a Nazi; or that quoting Kipling means you are racists and empire-apologist.

If, hypothetically, Alexander Gauland is in trouble for allegedly being antisemitic, and he decides, during that crisis, to make references to Wagner or some other obviously antisemitic German artist in an approving way, and on that same day he would double down on whatever caused people to think he's antisemitic - then yes, that would make the reference suspect too. I don't think anyone on this board would have problems concluding that it would probably be a dogwhistle, especially if many of these "incidents" had taken place before.

It's not about everyone liking Ernest Jones or Wagner's work being antisemitic. That's not the point and not the case. It's about the person doing it and the timing of doing so.

[parochial boy]

But there are a couple of questions here. Is Ernest Jones "obviously antismetic"? by which I mean his wikipedia page doesn't mention it at all, which sort of implies that his antisemitism is far from common knowledge, even among people who would have heard of him before today. Certainly it's far enough from common knowledge that it is not a reference you would expect people to get. That is different to Wagner who every man and his dog knows was an antisemite.

That sort of begs the question as to who Corbyn would even be dog whistling at? It would be a very small market to say the least. And then, should a politician facing such a scandal as Corbyn vet the people he quotes more thoroughly? Maybe, but that is less to do with the issue of whether he is antisemitic or not  and more to do with not giving a broadly hostile media the rope to hang him with