Vice, Virtue, and Independence (A Different Path, Chapter 2)

[MillennialModerate]

Three things:

I like the general story from the campaign and to the administration being spaced out but can the actual election night posts be closer together?

Also, can we get some posts about who JFK endorses or how he feels about this?

Finally, this is terrific!

1) if you mean in time, yes, I try to post 2 a day but I'm getting medical tests done (I may have cancer) so I've been busy. There will be at least one update when I get home later today.!

Oh wow. Praying for you dude, stay strong!

[Cold War Liberal]

November 5, 1968
7:30 PM

“Welcome back to CBS News’s coverage of this most extraordinary election. I’m Walter Cronkite. It is 7:30 in New York, and polls have just closed in three more states: North Carolina, Ohio, and West Virginia. We can call North Carolina for George Wallace. Additionally, we can call the state of Indiana for Barry Goldwater. Neither of these are particularly surprising wins.

“At this time, George Wallace has a lead of 42% in the national popular vote, with much of the country’s polling places not yet closed. Wallace has won 25 electoral votes. Barry Goldwater has 38% of the popular vote and 16 electoral votes. Lyndon Johnson, who is incapacitated, is polling at 19%, and has not won a state.”

8:00 PM

“A number of states have now closed their polls, and we can call several of them. George Wallace has won his home state of Alabama convincingly, which should come to a surprise to no one. Wallace has also won the state of Florida, a state Johnson was expected to do well in, as his ticket included a popular Senator from that state. Instead those voters simply decided to either not vote, or vote for Wallace.

“Barry Goldwater has won Missouri fairly easily. Wallace underperformed expectations here, though ‘expectations’ have been thrown out the window in this election. Goldwater has also won New Hampshire. Goldwater is not a good fit ideologically for New England, but Wallace is an exponentially worse one. Goldwater has won Oklahoma as well, dispatching Wallace easily and potentially showing that the Senator will do well in the Plains tonight. It’s not all bad news for Wallace, however, as the Governor has won Tennessee.”

8:30 PM

“Polls have just closed in Arkansas, which Wallace has won convincingly. We also have a number of other states to call. Maryland, home state of Wallace’s running mate, will give its electors to the Alabama Governor. Connecticut has been won by Barry Goldwater. Massachusetts and Rhode Island both have an above-average number of Johnson voters, which has actually led George Wallace to win both states with barely 40% of the vote in each. South Carolina has been won by Wallace as well.

“Oh, and we just got a very interesting call: Lyndon B. Johnson has won the District of Columbia. Wallace is in second, and Goldwater trails both of them. Many in D.C. hate both candidates, evidently to the point that they would rather vote for someone who may die than either Wallace or Goldwater.”

[Mr. Smith]

Welp, there goes my theory that Wallace wins Trump states (besides Utah and Arizona) and Goldwater wins Hillary states, with LBJ only winning Texas and D.C.

[OBD]

I support Goldwater I guess. Sort of. He's better than Wallace IMO.

[MillennialModerate]

I really like Smathers.

And I would think most clear minded objective Americans like him over Wallace or Goldwater, so with that being said I’m surprised LBJ didn’t win regardless of his condition.

[MAINEiac4434]

I wonder if the Massachusetts electoral college voters will become faithless...

[America Needs R'hllor]

Three things:

I like the general story from the campaign and to the administration being spaced out but can the actual election night posts be closer together?

Also, can we get some posts about who JFK endorses or how he feels about this?

Finally, this is terrific!

1) if you mean in time, yes, I try to post 2 a day but I'm getting medical tests done (I may have cancer) so I've been busy. There will be at least one update when I get home later today.

2) JFK made a point of not endorsing anyone. After the election I'll do a Kennedy POV.

3) thanks!

I very much hope you're well.

Also, this is thrilling! I'm already hopeful for Bobby or someone else in the next election, because these two are atrocious. Still rooting for Goldwater because, well, with the exceprion of Maggy Smith, I'd rather have a Democrat beat incumbent Goldwater than a Republican beat Wallace.

[Cold War Liberal]

November 5, 1968
9:00 PM

“The biggest poll closings of any election night are at 8:00 PM and 9:00 PM, and tonight, both have officially come to pass. We can call a number of states. George Wallace has won the state of Louisiana. Wallace has also won Kentucky, though that state’s polls closed several hours ago. Lyndon B. Johnson has won his home state of Texas convincingly, which was not surprising, even as Johnson lies in a hospital unconscious. Goldwater has won a number of states: both Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, and, of course, his home state of Arizona.

“George Wallace leads with 41% of the popular vote and 121 electoral votes. Barry Goldwater is winning 39% of the popular vote and 86 electoral votes. Johnson has held steady at around 19% of the vote, and now has 28 electoral votes. No candidate is within striking distance of the necessary 270-electoral-vote majority needed to win the Presidency at this hour.”

9:30 PM

“We only have two small calls to make: Barry Goldwater has won Maine, and George Wallace has won Delaware. All other states remain too close to call. More polls close in half an hour.”

[Cold War Liberal]

(thanks for all the well wishes, btw. Writing this timeline helps get my mind off things)

[Cold War Liberal]

November 5, 1968
10:00 PM

“Polls have now closed in Iowa, Montana, Utah, and Nevada. None of these states are even close; Barry Goldwater has taken them all by 10 points or more. We can also project New Jersey for Barry Goldwater, which puts him ahead of Wallace for the first time in the electoral college vote; Goldwater leads with 127 to Wallace’s 124 and Johnson’s 28. Wallace maintains about a 2 point lead in the popular vote, which keeps steadily declining.

”In order to win, Governor Wallace needs to win big in the midwest, where Goldwater is doing quite well. Let’s look at some exit polling. While Wallace has the support of many lower-income whites, Goldwater has the support of urban blacks and other ethnic minorities; Goldwater made sure to emphasize the work he’s done for racial equality in Arizona and his NAACP membership, despite his vote against the Civil Rights Act of 1965 and the Voting Rights Act, in contrast to Wallace’s countless pro-segregation statements. Middle class white people seem to be split, with Goldwater ahead with them but not by much. Upper-class people are breaking hard for Goldwater, including many who voted for Rockefeller in 1964; while Goldwater is no liberal, he sure as hell isn’t George Wallace.

“Additionally, some major unions, such as the AFL-CIO have not endorsed Wallace, instead choosing to campaign for down-ballot Democrats rather than the top of the ticket, even if Wallace is quite labor-friendly. Many attribute this to the fact that they represent many non-white workers, and do not want to alienate them by endorsing Wallace.”

11:00 PM

“After the closings in Idaho, California, Washington, Oregon, and Hawaii just seconds ago, Americans have finished voting across the continental United States. CBS predicts that George Wallace will carry Hawaii, a state where Johnson support remains insufficient to split the vote with Wallace enough to allow Goldwater to slip past them both to victory. Goldwater will win both Idaho and Oregon. Washington and California are too early to call, while all other states are too close to call.”

11:30 PM

“We have several rather major calls to make at this time. The first is that Barry Goldwater will win the state of Illinois. I repeat, the Republican ticket will take the swing state of Illinois and her 26 electoral votes with a little under 42% of the vote. The next call is that Barry Goldwater has surprisingly taken the Southern state of Mississippi. Goldwater has always polled well in the South, but seeing as Wallace is from a neighboring state, he was the odds-on favorite to win the entire region. Another major call is that Goldwater will narrowly carry the supposedly Wallace-friendly state of Ohio and its 26 electoral votes. These are all blows to the Wallace campaign, which very much needed a victory in the midwest; Wallace has not yet lost, but his road to 270 electoral votes is much narrower now.

“This just in: another call, Goldwater has narrowly edged out Lyndon Johnson and George Wallace in the state of Virginia, winning the state with just 36% of the vote. Goldwater now has 208 electoral votes to Wallace’s 128. Lyndon Johnson still has 28. The two major candidates are tied at 40% of the national popular vote, while Johnson is winning roughly 20% of the vote.

“If Goldwater can win Virginia, it is hard to imagine him losing New York. And with popular, charismatic Governor Ronald Reagan on the ticket, it is hard to imagine him losing California, where Republicans currently lead despite the state being too early to call. With those two states alone, Barry Goldwater would be sworn in as the 36th President of the United States next January. This election is not over yet, but its end may well be in sight.”

[MillennialModerate]

I’d thjnk WV goes Wallace, a tailor made state for him.

The remaining states should all go for LBJ in normal circumstances.

Again, Smathers is better than Goldwater and Wallace. So LBJ ticket SHOULD push this to the house.

[MillennialModerate]

Don’t make me wait 24 hours for the conclusion to the election !

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

*Snip*

Though I share in your joy, you might want to cut that down as it stretches the page

[Cold War Liberal]

Don’t make me wait 24 hours for the conclusion to the election !

I really really appreciate your enthusiasm, LOL, but I just got word that I have a 3 page paper on Descartes due tomorrow morning that's worth 23% of my philosophy grade. My professor barely mentioned this, so I assumed it was extra credit (my mom always says that when you assume you make an ass out of u and me; she is correct).

I may or may not post another update tonight anyway.

Good news is that my last day of finals is tomorrow which gives me vastly more time to write this timeline, among other things (mainly college applications)

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Don’t make me wait 24 hours for the conclusion to the election !

I really really appreciate your enthusiasm, LOL, but I just got word that I have a 3 page paper on Descartes due tomorrow morning that's worth 23% of my philosophy grade. My professor barely mentioned this, so I assumed it was extra credit (my mom always says that when you assume you make an ass our of u and me; she is correct).

I may or may not post another update tonight anyway.

Good news is that my last day of finals is tomorrow which gives me vastly more time to write this timeline, among other things (mainly college applications)

Good luck man!

[Mr. Smith]

If Massachusetts could be lost to Wallace, so can New York, I'm also guessing Michigan goes to Wallace too.

Pennsylvania seems likely to go to Wallace the same way Trump won it.

Put all that together and Goldwater is off by 10 (assuming Goldwater wins every state west of the Mississippi besides Arkansas, Louisiana, and Texas).

But then, I figured Ohio would go to Wallace.

[Cold War Liberal]

November 6, 1968
12:00 AM

“It is now November 6th on the East Coast, and polls have closed in Alaska, which we can project for Barry Goldwater. In bigger news, we can project that Goldwater will carry Pennsylvania with 41% of the vote. Goldwater now has 240 electoral votes, which is 30 shy of a majority.”

12:15 AM

“We have three major calls which will decide this race: Barry Goldwater is the victor in the state of Washington; Barry Goldwater will win the state of California; and finally, Barry Goldwater will, with 39% of the vote, win the state of New York, where a large number of progressives voted for Lyndon Johnson. With 332 electoral votes, Barry Morris Goldwater has been elected the 36th President of the United States, while Ronald Wilson Reagan has been elected the 39th Vice President of the United States. This stunning whirlwind of an election has been the culmination of a conservative wave which has swept the country in the past few years in reaction to the attempts (and, usually, the successes) at sweeping progressive reforms by the Kennedy Administration. Conservatives from both parties have grown their numbers in both the House and the Senate as well, though they do not appear to have won a majority in either.”

1:00 AM

“The states of Minnesota and Wisconsin will both go to Barry Goldwater.”

2:45 AM

“And with the final state calls of the night, George Wallace has narrowly won both Michigan and West Virginia, both with less than 40% of the vote.

“The final total is that Barry Goldwater has around 41% of the popular vote and 354 electoral votes, George Wallace has around 40% of the popular vote and 156 electoral votes, and Lyndon B. Johnson has around 19% of the popular vote and 28 electoral votes. This concludes CBS News’s coverage of election night 1968.”

[Cold War Liberal]

"President-elect Barry Goldwater" is such a weird phrase to type!

P.S. @MillMod: I made you wait 25 hours, not 24, per your request.

P.P.S.: IDK how I did it but I think this election was actually at least as crazy as IRL '68, if not slightly worse.

[MillennialModerate]

"President-elect Barry Goldwater" is such a weird phrase to type!

P.S. @MillMod: I made you wait 25 hours, not 24, per your request.

P.P.S.: IDK how I did it but I think this election was actually at least as crazy as IRL '68, if not slightly worse.

(>_>)

Still surprised by this result:

First because historically popular Presidents (like JFK is IRL and like he is in this TL) almost always get their successor elected (Truman elected on the back of FDR, LBJ elected on the back of JFK and Bush elected on the back of Reagan)... and in this case I’d consider LBJ the successor despite Wallace being the Dem nominee.

Secondly, repeating what I’ve said before: Wouldn’t Smathers be considered more acceptable to voters than Wallace or Goldwater?

[Former Senator Haslam2020]

Three things:

I like the general story from the campaign and to the administration being spaced out but can the actual election night posts be closer together?

Also, can we get some posts about who JFK endorses or how he feels about this?

Finally, this is terrific!

1) if you mean in time, yes, I try to post 2 a day but I'm getting medical tests done (I may have cancer) so I've been busy. There will be at least one update when I get home later today.

2) JFK made a point of not endorsing anyone. After the election I'll do a Kennedy POV.

3) thanks!

Jus saw this, and I hope you’re okay man. Praying, I used to be in the same boat I get how you feel. You’re doing good on the timeline don’t worry about constant updates my dude it’s okay if you busy. You a good writer too 🤙

[NewYorkExpress]

I think it's safe to say either RFK or Teddy will be the Democratic nominee in 1972.

The question is will they win?

[Cold War Liberal]

"President-elect Barry Goldwater" is such a weird phrase to type!

P.S. @MillMod: I made you wait 25 hours, not 24, per your request.

P.P.S.: IDK how I did it but I think this election was actually at least as crazy as IRL '68, if not slightly worse.

(>_>)

Still surprised by this result:

First because historically popular Presidents (like JFK is IRL and like he is in this TL) almost always get their successor elected (Truman elected on the back of FDR, LBJ elected on the back of JFK and Bush elected on the back of Reagan)... and in this case I’d consider LBJ the successor despite Wallace being the Dem nominee.

Secondly, repeating what I’ve said before: Wouldn’t Smathers be considered more acceptable to voters than Wallace or Goldwater?

60% of voters voted for Democrats following a highly successful Democratic presidency, proving your point without contesting these results.

The situation with the independent Democrats is difficult. LBJ could very well survive, but he could also die before all the votes are counted. So you can't assume Smathers would be the one assuming office. Also, Smathers wasn't some great progressive; he was a moderate at best. Pretty sure he called Claude Pepper a communist for supporting civil rights and free healthcare in '50. Not exactly the dream candidate for voters looking for the continuation of the Kennedy Administration, which had just passed legislation on civil rights and free healthcare (for the poor and elderly). Not to mention that he was something of a segregationist (out of political necessity than actual racism, I'd like to think, but the effect on wider society was the same regardless of motivation).

ITTL, Progressives did not love Johnson, but they didn't even like Smathers. They hated Goldwater and Wallace almost equally (probably Wallace a little more, depending on how strongly they feel about civil rights). Many decided to stay home, while most of the rest voted for LBJ out of protest.

The disparity between the 31% Goldwater polled at on Nov. 1st and the 41% he ended up getting was due to a reduced electorate size, not an increase in support.

I think it's safe to say either RFK or Teddy will be the Democratic nominee in 1972.

The question is will they win?

Sure, that's a safe bet.

One could argue that Goldwater is more likely to win reelection than election in the first place, since so much of the argument against him was because of what he might do. If he doesn't do those things (e.g. cause nuclear Armageddon) then I think he certainly stands a decent chance. You'll just have to see what happens in his administration.

of course I already know who wins in '72 I'm just being coy

[America Needs R'hllor]

Oh well, at least we have the first kinda-Jewish President of the United States

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

WOO

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

WOO