HR 1214: Dual Officeholding Amendment (Failed)
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  HR 1214: Dual Officeholding Amendment (Failed)
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Author Topic: HR 1214: Dual Officeholding Amendment (Failed)  (Read 7545 times)
Associate Justice PiT
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« on: April 16, 2018, 03:22:58 PM »
« edited: May 26, 2018, 02:02:48 AM by Vice President PiT »

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People's Regional Senate:
Passed 6-0-0 in the Atlasian Senate assembled

[/quote]

Sponsor: Ninja0428

     I hereby open the floor for debate.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 04:13:57 AM »

This is not an HB, this is an HR. Tongue
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 05:47:54 AM »

This bill is the devil and should be burned with fire.
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Sirius_
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2018, 08:28:43 AM »

I would suggest that regional legislators also be allowed to serve in the cabinet.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2018, 05:46:38 PM »

This bill is the devil and should be burned with fire.

Again this is not a bill, it is a resolution. Tongue
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2018, 06:08:32 PM »

This bill is the devil and should be burned with fire.
That can be arranged.
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RC (a la Frémont)
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2018, 01:39:48 PM »

I’ll sponsor the bill, as I believe for the sake of the game, Atlasians should only hold one office at a time
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2018, 03:22:38 PM »

     Representatives have 24 hours to object to Representative ReaganClinton assuming sponsorship.
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Lumine
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2018, 08:07:13 PM »

Needless to say I encourage the House to pass this Amendment so it can go to for a vote across the nation, particularly to hear the opinion of the people when it comes to multipleoffice holding.

Two points, though:

1. One mistake which I failed to account for in the Senate was that the Amendment should also include leadership positions on legislative chambers (Speaker, PPT, etc), otherwise it would cause a major problem. I can draft an amendment for that if no one wishes to propose one.

2. I would strongly encourage the House not to include regional officeholders in the cabinet. One of the main criticisms of multiple officholding has been indeed the separation between the regional and federal government and the problems that can concievably arise from having, say, a regional executive also in charge of a substantial office in the cabinet.
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President of the civil service full of trans activists
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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2018, 06:10:13 AM »

This bill is the devil and should be burned with fire.

Again this is not a bill, it is a resolution. Tongue
Fine, then. This resolution is the devil and should be burned with fire. Tongue
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 02:41:51 PM »

     With no objections, Representative ReaganClinton has assumed sponsorship. I notice the Representative has made a brief statement, and people are already talking about this one.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2018, 12:29:46 PM »

1. One mistake which I failed to account for in the Senate was that the Amendment should also include leadership positions on legislative chambers (Speaker, PPT, etc), otherwise it would cause a major problem. I can draft an amendment for that if no one wishes to propose one.
I don't believe such positions are traditionally considered offices (at least they aren't in the US, where the Constitution explicitly forbids dual officeholding of any kind).
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2018, 12:40:33 PM »

On this, I must concur with the president: the constitutional sanction of pluralism was introduced in response to the Crisis of 2015, when it became clear that a strict adherence to monistic officeholding was crippling the republic by forcing the game to 'drain one pool to fill another.' Had this provision not been in place, we would have lost Peebs' services either as Registrar General or as Secretary of Federal Elections from the start, not to mention several of the most capable to serve in the cabinet proper since its ratification. Prohibiting cabinet officers from serving in Congress or in regional governments would be a historic mistake; in that unhappy event, it would be preferable to simply abolish the cabinet altogether than to allow it to resume the horrid half-life it endured before the Fourth Constitution.

I challenge the supporters of this bill to submit an actual instance when this republic has been demonstrably weakened by the pluralist policy. Has the Southern Chamber of Delegates suffered from Mr. Reactionary's service with the State Department? Did Fremont endure the doldrums of inactivity whilst I was serving jointly as their prime minister and as Attorney General? Is Congress now in shackles because the deputy speaker resides at the Census Bureau? Regular elections and the dismissive power of the executive are more than sufficient safeguards against any theoretical "conflict of interest" that might occur—and while I cannot speak for the senator, I have more faith in our courts and in the honor and good judgement of our officeholders than to consider it necessary to amend the Constitution for fear that some avaricious cabinet officer will try and set themselves up as dictator.

We cannot conjure up activity by creating more vacant offices—that strategy has been employed ad nauseam in the past, with disastrous results. The president and Senator Cinyc are absolutely right to observe that forcing active and qualified citizens from office hurts the game, and to do so now—when we are so starved for active candidates that the second-largest party has no sitting representatives in the House—would be incredibly foolish.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2018, 12:44:40 PM »

I feel like I do a good job at the 4 offices I currently hold.
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President of the civil service full of trans activists
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« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2018, 12:50:11 PM »

I feel like I do a good job at 3 of the 4 offices I currently hold.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2018, 02:16:46 AM »


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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2018, 03:30:26 PM »

     I see a couple of people suggested amendments. Is anything going to happen to that or do people want to proceed to a final vote?
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Sestak
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2018, 03:35:28 PM »

I very much hope no member of the House votes to try and underhandedly amend the constitution with this damaging proposal in the lame duck session, especially those who have not been-reelected.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2018, 03:36:05 PM »

Amendments!!!
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2018, 10:16:30 PM »

I very much hope no member of the House votes to try and underhandedly amend the constitution with this damaging proposal in the lame duck session, especially those who have not been-reelected.

Congress cannot amend the constitution. Only the Regions can do that

Congress can merely pass a Joint Resolution (with a 2/3rds majority in each house) to propose amendments for the regions to ratify or reject.

As for sitting members, all members elected in February were elected for a term spanning from March 2nd - May 4th. I do understand the Representatives concern, on the flip side we have a lot of Senate proposed stuff to work through on the House side and cannot afford to just shut down until May 4th.

I would recommend proposing legislation on the length of the lame duck session. As I recall one was recently before the chamber but it ran into problems for the December election, since it meant seating a Congress like the day before Christmas or between Christmas and New Years, when no one is active.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2018, 10:21:43 PM »

Also the amendment explanation thing is about to pass the Senate, which will make the House rule effective as well.


This means that this text will have to be amended to comply with that rule as well.
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Sestak
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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2018, 11:57:48 PM »

hmmm.

Anyway, as Representative-elect, I'd just like to announce that I oppose this amendment.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2018, 01:29:16 AM »

If this goes to a vote without the amendments Lumine listed as a necessary himself, I would hope everyone would vote no. Tongue
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Pericles
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« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2018, 01:30:31 AM »

If this goes to a vote without the amendments Lumine listed as a necessary himself, I would hope everyone would vote no. Tongue

Yep. Put the amendments in, or vote nay. We'll just pass it again amended and send it back to you guys, but hopefully you can spare us the inconvenience.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2018, 02:12:34 AM »

If this goes to a vote without the amendments Lumine listed as a necessary himself, I would hope everyone would vote no. Tongue

Yep. Put the amendments in, or vote nay. We'll just pass it again amended and send it back to you guys, but hopefully you can spare us the inconvenience.

Perhaps some day we can get to a point where the Senate doesn't find itself in a position to be demanding us to fix their mistakes at gun point. Tongue You people are supposed to be the elder statesmen, correcting the mistakes of the raving mad populist lunatics in the house. Tongue
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