Genesis Prize cancels ceremony after Natalie Portman said she won’t visit Israel

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

To be clear, there's nothing democratic or liberal about stripping someone of citizenship for voicing a rather anodyne political opinion. In my mind, there's something "anti-American" about marching in the streets with swatstikas or Confederate flags - it's nearly treasonous - but I would never support stripping neo-Nazis of citizenship, regardless of how abhorrent their views are.

If Israel desires to be seen as a cradle of liberal democracy in the Middle East, perhaps it should take seriously the idea that the freedom of expression encompasses support for BDS, explicitly anti-IDF statements and rhetoric, desire for a unified Palestine. I might understand censorship but stripping someone of citizenship or even voicing support for this crosses a red line.

Of course, this is cheap political rhetoric from a besieged government but, if this rhetoric is acceptable, that's not a great sign.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Well worth reading her clarifying statements

What troubles me about this little episode, this minor and ultimately quite trivial affair, is that the initial reports were so completely misleading. The ethical standards for reporting on anything to do with the Israeli-Palestinian psychodrama are extremely, and I would argue irresponsibly, low.

A good example of how the West sees domestic Israeli politics, which plays into the hands of the Israeli right. The plausible explanation was always that Natalie Portman was protesting Netanyahu, not that she was supporting BDS, but it's in the interests of the Israeli right and pro-Palestinian activists to suggest otherwise. The narrative must be maintained!

[Devout Centrist]

To be clear, there's nothing democratic or liberal about stripping someone of citizenship for voicing a rather anodyne political opinion. In my mind, there's something "anti-American" about marching in the streets with swatstikas or Confederate flags - it's nearly treasonous - but I would never support stripping neo-Nazis of citizenship, regardless of how abhorrent their views are.

If Israel desires to be seen as a cradle of liberal democracy in the Middle East, perhaps it should take seriously the idea that the freedom of expression encompasses support for BDS, explicitly anti-IDF statements and rhetoric, desire for a unified Palestine. I might understand censorship but stripping someone of citizenship or even voicing support for this crosses a red line.

Of course, this is cheap political rhetoric from a besieged government but, if this rhetoric is acceptable, that's not a great sign.

Yes, one would think that it would take more than a few political statements to strip someone of citizenship. And if that's the bare minimum needed to strip away citizenship, there'd be a plethora of newly stateless people around the world.

Obviously, this sort of rhetoric isn't unexpected; It's more or less the norm now.

If a Jew choses to side with the anti-Jewish opposition during an armed clash with our Jewish state's forces, that means more than just opposing the government or the Prime Minister of whatever. I couldn't care less about Bibi either.

I don't think protesting deaths caused by the Israeli government is the same as siding with the anti-Jewish opposition.

Well, I think it is.

Thankfully, you don't have the power to determine what makes dissent treasonous.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

She should have requested that Netanyahu not present the award rather than just refuse it. Who knows if Bibi's ego could have handled that, but she should have tried. I don't think government officials should be presenting this kind of thing anyway.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If a Jew choses to side with the anti-Jewish opposition during an armed clash with our Jewish state's forces, that means more than just opposing the government or the Prime Minister of whatever. I couldn't care less about Bibi either.

I don't think protesting deaths caused by the Israeli government is the same as siding with the anti-Jewish opposition.

While I think in this case one could argue the two significantly overlapped given that Hamas was driving the protests, I basically agree with you on this.  Folks who treat anti-Israel and anti-Semitic language as though they are the same thing are not doing our community any favors.  If anything they’re making it harder to call out folks such as the BDS crowd who really do use anti-Israel language as socially acceptable code language for their anti-Semitic views.

For my part, I think we need to differentiate between A) something like criticizing Israel’s handling of protests/Netanyahu’s policies in good faith or even being involved in an organization with important members who are apparently anti-Semites (this is what happened with Scott Wallace btw; he himself never donated to BDS IIRC) none of which are even remotely anti-Semitic (although the latter may suggest poor judgement in some circumstances), B) Follow travelers to anti-Semitic groups who - while certainly sympathetic to such groups - probably aren’t true anti-Semites themselves such as that CCR guy from Chicago, Ted Cruz, Josh Mandel (yes, I know he’s Jewish, so was Daniel Burros), and Steve Scalise, C) People who likely have some serious anti-Semitic prejudices and deliberately associate with anti-Semitic groups/individuals, but aren’t necessarily full-blown anti-Semites (ex: Keith Ellison, Donald Trump, Gary Oldman, the late Billy Graham), D) “soft” anti-Semites who are smart enough to use coded language to disguise their vicious anti-Semitism (these guys are the most dangerous imo) such as Steve Bannon and BDS, and E) “Hard” anti-Semites who don’t even seriously pretend to be anything else (ex: David Duke, Danny Davis, Louis Farrakhan, Hamas, Milo Yiannopolis, Richard Spencer, Ron Paul, etc).

These are not all the same and the first group definitely shouldn’t be attacked as anti-Semites, especially since doing so is both disingenuous and damaging to the credibility of the Jewish community.

[DavidB.]

Yeah, Steve Bannon, the guy who started Breitbart Jerusalem, is totally as antisemitic or dangerous to Jews as "from the river to the sea" BDS. It is also outright laughable to put Trump in category "c" after opening an embassy in Israel and being the most pro-Israeli U.S. president ever, while left-wingers who keep parroting their malicious anti-Israel nonsense get a pass from you as long as they conceal their nonsense in accepted terms. And how the hell would Josh Mandel be a "fellow traveller to antisemitic groups"? I always tended to respect your views on this issue, but your hackery is really showing now.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Yeah, Steve Bannon, the guy who started Breitbart Jerusalem, is totally as antisemitic or dangerous to Jews as "from the river to the sea" BDS. It is also outright laughable to put Trump in category "c" after opening an embassy in Israel and being the most pro-Israeli U.S. president ever, while left-wingers who keep parroting their malicious anti-Israel nonsense get a pass from you as long as they conceal their nonsense in accepted terms. And how the hell would Josh Mandel be a "fellow traveller to antisemitic groups"? I always tended to respect your views on this issue, but your hackery is really showing now.

- Steve Bannon has repeatedly gone to the mat for neo-Nazi and white supremacist elements on the far right.  Quite frankly, Bannon is far more dangerous to the Jewish community than BDS because while the latter are ultimately a bunch of disorganized morons with little serious political influence or credibility, Bannon has managed to get the mainstream media to refer to literal Nazis and blatant white supremacists as the "alt-right" (a term which carries far less of a negative stigma for whatever reason).  This is arguably the single biggest messaging victory these groups have won since David Duke got the media to start gobbling up the "it's not about racism, it's about preserving our [treasonous Confederate] heritage."  Given that you're apparently opting to close your eyes to Bannon's anti-Semitism b/c you like his politics; you'll have to forgive me if I don't take your accusations of hackery very seriously.

- Unconditionally opening the U.S. embassy building in Jerusalem was terrible for both Israel and the Jewish community in the long-term and the idea that Trump has been pro-Israel in any truly meaningful way is laughable.  The four Presidents who have done anything truly consequential for Israel are...
1) Harry Truman (no explanation needed),

2) Nixon (ironically a notoriously anti-Semitic individual) who really cemented the American-Israeli military alliance,

3) Jimmy Carter (ironically a category C-type himself) since the Camp David Peace Accords with Egypt made a serious Arab military invasion of Israel more or less impossible,

and 4) Obama who was willing to condemn the settlement construction, support a two state solution, enacted the Iran deal which would've ensured that Iran didn't get nukes for at least the next 10 years while simultaneously bringing it further into the international community (and thus making it more susceptible to economic pressure) and pressure Netanyahu to stop trying to derail the peace process at every turn (long-term, Israel will not be able to exist as a democratic Jewish state without a two state solution; this is a simple fact).  

Donald Trump's disingenuous virtue signaling hasn't done jack for Israel's security and his inexcusable decision to shred the Iran deal has both dramatically increased the likelihood of a nuclear Iran and crippled American credibility abroad (as it should).  Meanwhile Trump has actively given aid and comfort to Nazis in the U.S. whom he has literally referred to as "very fine people."  And of course, there are (as with Bannon) his incredibly extensive ties to far right anti-Semites.  

- Please name for me the anti-Semitic left-wingers whom I'm supposed to have given a pass, I seem to have forgotten.

- Re: Josh Mandel: He has repeatedly condemned the Anti-Defimation League while praising various anti-Semitic bigots such as Mark Cernovich and Jack Posobiec.  The fact that Mandel is the descendant of Holocaust survivors only makes the way he's thrown his own people under the bus to advance his political career even more disgusting.

[DavidB.]

Has Bannon ever said or done anything antisemitic or nah? You'll find that the latter will be the answer. Only some rumors. And "extensive ties with X" = guilt by association. Bannon and Trump are not responsible for the views of those they talk with.

I don't know what level of cognitive dissonance you have to be on to think that Obama did "anything truly consequential" for Israel while Trump didn't. Holy sh**t, dude. That's some A-class hackery right there.

Most American Jews seem to live on a completely different planet than I, a planet where condemning Jews living in villages in Judea and Samaria is "brave" and good for the Jewish people while recognizing Jerusalem as the eternal capital of Israel is "disingenuous virtue signalling" (to most it would be the other way around if it were a Democrat opening an embassy in Jerusalem and a Republican condemning the settlements, of course) -- and then having the gall to say others are "throwing their own people under the bus".

Didn't know Mandel had condemned the ADL. Good for him. The ADL is a far-left disgrace. It doesn't fight antisemitism, it causes it. Why does the ADL have to push for open border policies regarding refugees when this issue is 100% irrelevant to the wellbeing and safety of Jews? Nobody resents it more than I do, but I understand how non-Jews start liking us less if they get the impression that it is our community pushing for this sort of thing. It is so toxic and the ADL keep doing it. About time they got called out for it.