Revenue Bill of 2005

[Emsworth]

The question is on overriding the President's veto. All those in favor, say Aye; those opposed, say No.

[Ebowed]

Nay

[DanielX]

Aye

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Nay

[True Democrat]

Aye

I do not understand why people are voting Nay.  This is comletely optional bill.

[MasterJedi]

Aye

[Colin]

Aye.

Why did Siege veto this? I would like an answer from the President on this.

[True Democrat]

Aye.

Why did Siege veto this? I would like an answer from the President on this.

I think it's becuase I mentioned I was surprised he didn't veto the Arts bill, so maybe he felt the need to veto someone.

[Emsworth]

I think it's becuase I mentioned I was surprised he didn't veto the Arts bill, so maybe he felt the need to veto someone.

I can assure the Senator that this is not the reason. I believe that the problem with this bill was that it might not actually raise revenue. It allows people to opt out of paying payroll taxes, and the lost tax revenue might outweigh any savings we make in terms of benefits.

[Defarge]

I will refrain from voting until the President makes known himself why he vetoed the bill.

[Siege40]

I vetoed the bill because of firstly, the reasons Q raised the ambiguity of no longer having to pay taxes etc., also I am not convinced that this will save money, also the option to exclude people from social programming concerns me. If those who can contribute the most withdraw, how are those who can't contribute as much make the system sustainable, it'll lead to the systems entire collapse in my opinion. 

[Q]

Nay on overriding the President's veto.

[Gabu]

After reviewing how Social Security works, I can't immediately see how anyone receiving Social Security benefits would be paying taxes, given that Social Security kicks in when a person retires.  Therefore, I don't see how this bill will do anything other than allow people to effectively donate money to the government by refusing Social Security benefits upon retirement.

So, with that in mind...

Aye.

[Emsworth]

After reviewing how Social Security works, I can't immediately see how anyone receiving Social Security benefits would be paying taxes, given that Social Security kicks in when a person retires.

That's not necessarily always the case; Social Security includes survivors' benefits. A surviving spouse or child could choose to stop receiving SS benefits, and not pay taxes at the same time. Furthermore, the bill appears to presume that people who receive SS benefits will be paying taxes.

[Gabu]

That's not necessarily always the case; Social Security includes survivors' benefits. A surviving spouse or child could choose to stop receiving SS benefits, and not pay taxes at the same time. Furthermore, the bill appears to presume that people who receive SS benefits will be paying taxes.

True, and come to think of it, you could have the scenario where, say, a person with a large income in the category of one receiving survivor benefits saves more money than they give up through stopping the receiving of Social Security benefits...

Hm, I'm not so sure anymore, even though this would likely be a very rare case.  I'll change my vote to abstain.

[Emsworth]

With three noes and an abstention, there can be no two-thirds majority. Senators have 24 hours to vote or change their votes.

[True Democrat]

Come on people, change your votes!!! You know you want to

[Defarge]

Nay.

[Q]

Come on people, change your votes!!! You know you want to

I personally have only problems with specifics in this bill - the ambiguities - and not with its spirit or what you were attempting to accomplish with it, Mr. Senator.

Perhaps you could resubmit your bill with some changes made to alleviate the concerns of those who voted against as well as the President?  It's just a matter of language, I think, at least so far as I am concerned.  Maybe others would disagree, but that is my position.

[PBrunsel]

Aye

[Siege40]

Cool, my first veto.

Siege

[PBrunsel]

Cool, my first veto.

Siege

It took you this long? Heck, I vetoed almost everything as President.

[MasterJedi]

Well nobody has changed they're votes and I believe it's been over 24 hours so could we get a new piece of legislation in here?

[Emsworth]

There have voted:
Aye: 5
No: 5 (including 1 abstention)

Therefore, the President's veto is hereby sustained.

I would like to note my extreme dismay that a tie vote emerges exactly at the moment when it is not necessary to break it.