Trump admin to order power grids to buy from failing coal & nuclear plants

[ProudModerate2]

What next?
Is trump going to somehow force us to use VCR's?

[GeorgiaModerate]

What next?
Is trump going to somehow force us to use VCR's?

Yes, but only the *best* VCRs.  It's time for Betamax to make a comeback!

[Cold War Liberal]

The government shouldn't be picking winners or losers, said Republicans in 2010

[Sirius_]

What next?
Is trump going to somehow force us to use VCR's?

Yes, but only the *best* VCRs.  It's time for Betamax to make a comeback!

Seriously? We all know that we need to be buying CED!

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Just so we're clear and all on the same page, the consensus here agrees that the govt shouldn't pick and choose winners and losers?  That's good news.


It's much less good if you all just think Trump shouldn't pick winners and losers that you don't approve of.

Picking renewable energy as a winner is fine simply because there is a definitive positive externality from their operations over those of rivals; people don't make economic decisions factoring in very long term considerations, and by the time climate change and environmental issues are an imminent danger, it'll be too late.

The basic problem here is renewable energy isn't a single thing, so it's very easy for govt to bark up the wrong tree when it comes to some forms of renewable energy over those with actual potential.

[DINGO Joe]

So, anyway, it's 5 months since the "leak" of a plan  or an order and there's still no plan or order, several coal plants and a nuclear plant have closed, and within the last 30 days there's been a spate of new announcements  of coal plant closing, the Oklaunion in Vernon, TX (Wilbarger), Shady Point in Leflore, OK, Conesville in Coshocton, OH, Sammis in Stratton, OH (Jefferson), Bruce Mansfield in Shippingsport, PA (Beaver).  Shady Point, Sammis, and Conesville all used locally mined coal too so they'll absorb a double hit. 

There's quite a bit of butthurt in the local articles as Trump said he was going to save them and he isn't.  Guess that's the life of being a Trumptard.

Overall, coal is on pace to account for about 27% of total US generation, down from 30% last year and 48% in 2008.

[DINGO Joe]

Like I wrote last week, Dumb Donnie and Village Idiot Rick Perry couldn't come up with a viable plan to make this happen, so it's been shelved

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/15/rick-perry-coal-rescue-trump-850528

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Of course, coal miners can't read so they won't know it until the mines shut down.

On the note of mines shutting down, a small coal company named Mission Coal filed bankruptcy and has shut down a rather large mine in WV-03

https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/coal/101518-us-coal-miner-mission-coal-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy

And that has the locals up in arms worried about their pensions (of course, their jobs are already gone) and Ojeda has swooped in for the protest.

https://www.wvnstv.com/local-news/wyoming-county/coal-miners-protest-at-pinnacle-mine-demand-answers/1528204203

The one nice thing about the bankruptcy is that Mission coal apparently owes one of Jim Justice's companies $4 million and given how consistently Jim screws people he owes money to, it's nice to see him getting it on the other end.  Hopefully, he gets it enough times he goes bankrupt too.

A much larger coal company also went bankrupt in the last week, Westmoreland which has bagholders and miners worried from Wyoming to Ohio

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/westmoreland-chapter-11-marks-4th-major-us-coal-company-to-declare-bankrupt/539273/

The only thing dumber than a coal miner is probably Naso (who missed his calling) and anyone who does business with Jim Justice.

[DINGO Joe]

And of course one of my favorite graphics



That's just in the next year.  Each one of them dots is power that's produced cheaper than coal (and nuclear). 

[Grassroots]

Assuming this is a bad thing? Because it's not.

[KingSweden]

Take it easy with stuff like “only people dumber than coal miners.” Those are people losing their jobs and livelihoods just like retail workers at Sears, who we aren’t mocking (or st least shouldn’t be). It’s not their fault their profession is obsolete.

And of course one of my favorite graphics



That's just in the next year.  Each one of them dots is power that's produced cheaper than coal (and nuclear). 

Good to see Nebraska is finally investing in its tremendous wind capacity, it was a huge laggard. Hopefully Chokecherry in Wyoming gets finished sometime (ever, really).

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Like I wrote last week, Dumb Donnie and Village Idiot Rick Perry couldn't come up with a viable plan to make this happen, so it's been shelved

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/15/rick-perry-coal-rescue-trump-850528

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Of course, coal miners can't read so they won't know it until the mines shut down.

On the note of mines shutting down, a small coal company named Mission Coal filed bankruptcy and has shut down a rather large mine in WV-03

https://www.spglobal.com/platts/en/market-insights/latest-news/coal/101518-us-coal-miner-mission-coal-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy

And that has the locals up in arms worried about their pensions (of course, their jobs are already gone) and Ojeda has swooped in for the protest.

https://www.wvnstv.com/local-news/wyoming-county/coal-miners-protest-at-pinnacle-mine-demand-answers/1528204203

The one nice thing about the bankruptcy is that Mission coal apparently owes one of Jim Justice's companies $4 million and given how consistently Jim screws people he owes money to, it's nice to see him getting it on the other end.  Hopefully, he gets it enough times he goes bankrupt too.

A much larger coal company also went bankrupt in the last week, Westmoreland which has bagholders and miners worried from Wyoming to Ohio

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/westmoreland-chapter-11-marks-4th-major-us-coal-company-to-declare-bankrupt/539273/

The only thing dumber than a coal miner is probably Naso (who missed his calling) and anyone who does business with Jim Justice.

Coal dying is long term good, but basically gloating about the miners getting shafted is f##ked.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Fine with the nuke plants as long as they aren't first-gen reactors.  Trump should push the completion of the Yucca Mountain facility for storing all this waste we have sitting around, though.

[支持核绿派 (Greens4Nuclear)]

There is actually no reason to do this. If coal plants are dying, that is good. It's time to move on. Somehow Trump can't understand this.

It's a subsidy to the coal industry of WV, whose workers supported Trump in record numbers.

Many of the Red Avatars here would be fine with this if it were some other type of industry with unionized workers.  At that level, factoring out the environmental issue, I'm fine with that as well.

Perhaps the Democratic Party needs to come to grips with the fact that environmentalism is, on many levels, an elitist issue that, in the short and medium run, crushes some folks at the lower end of the economic scale for the interests of rich liberals who are well-heeled enough to consider the "long run" and are not living in the "tyrrany of the moment" as many of the working poor with little or no savings are.

So environmentalism is an elitist issue? I do agree that there is a perception that it is, and all the Gores and DiCaprios and the upscale hispters who shop at Whole Foods don't help.

But at the end, when environmental damage comes, it's the working poor that gets screwed. And this is not just a "long-term" issue; people are suffering and dying from pollution as we speak.

For example, people in poor neighborhoods breathe in more hazardous particles

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It's the poor and working class that is the most affected, while the "environmental elitists" you may be picturing in your head are the least affected.

Also, what's more elitist than Trump giving away bailouts to his billionaire coal buddies? Or of Trump viewing the people of West Virginia as votes and not people?

[Koharu]

Coal dying is long term good, but basically gloating about the miners getting shafted is f##ked.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Just so we're clear and all on the same page, the consensus here agrees that the govt shouldn't pick and choose winners and losers?  That's good news.


It's much less good if you all just think Trump shouldn't pick winners and losers that you don't approve of.

Picking renewable energy as a winner is fine simply because there is a definitive positive externality from their operations over those of rivals; people don't make economic decisions factoring in very long term considerations, and by the time climate change and environmental issues are an imminent danger, it'll be too late.

The basic problem here is renewable energy isn't a single thing, so it's very easy for govt to bark up the wrong tree when it comes to some forms of renewable energy over those with actual potential.

This strikes me as a less than genuine argument. We have lots of information about which types of energy are suitable for which types of climate/setting, and the technology for addressing their respective shortcomings is growing cheaper and accessible every month. The main problem with renewables right now isn't that they are unreliable, it's that they produce energy periodically and don't currently have battery technology to store excess energy generated during peak times to slowly release during off-peak times. Under this constraint, shoveling more money into coal makes zero sense.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

There is actually no reason to do this. If coal plants are dying, that is good. It's time to move on. Somehow Trump can't understand this.

It's a subsidy to the coal industry of WV, whose workers supported Trump in record numbers.

Many of the Red Avatars here would be fine with this if it were some other type of industry with unionized workers.  At that level, factoring out the environmental issue, I'm fine with that as well.

Perhaps the Democratic Party needs to come to grips with the fact that environmentalism is, on many levels, an elitist issue that, in the short and medium run, crushes some folks at the lower end of the economic scale for the interests of rich liberals who are well-heeled enough to consider the "long run" and are not living in the "tyrrany of the moment" as many of the working poor with little or no savings are.

Sounds more to me like an excuse for old selfish members of the GOP cult to avoid feeling bad about sacrificing the future - of our children and our civilization - for their own immediate comfort.

[HillGoose]

Stupid socialist bull sh**t

[Intell]

Natural gas is just as bad as coal.

Instead of digging coal in America to hire workers we instead just import fossil fuels from overseas, so libs can feel good about themselves. Endorsed, the coal industry should be protected until we transition into diversifying economies focused on natural extraction and transition to an energy source without fossil fuels.

We should protect and dig coal (even if we don't burn it), invest in renewables (including nuclear) and ban fracking.

Endorsed.

[DINGO Joe]

Instead of digging coal in America to hire workers we instead just import fossil fuels from overseas, so libs can feel good about themselves. Endorsed, the coal industry should be protected until we transition into diversifying economies focused on natural extraction and transition to an energy source without fossil fuels.

We should protect and dig coal (even if we don't burn it), invest in renewables (including nuclear) and ban fracking.

Endorsed.

Did you mean Australia? cause this makes no sense.

[Intell]

Instead of digging coal in America to hire workers we instead just import fossil fuels from overseas, so libs can feel good about themselves. Endorsed, the coal industry should be protected until we transition into diversifying economies focused on natural extraction and transition to an energy source without fossil fuels.

We should protect and dig coal (even if we don't burn it), invest in renewables (including nuclear) and ban fracking.

Endorsed.

Did you mean Australia? cause this makes no sense.

Born in america, lived in la. Cool.

[DINGO Joe]

Instead of digging coal in America to hire workers we instead just import fossil fuels from overseas, so libs can feel good about themselves. Endorsed, the coal industry should be protected until we transition into diversifying economies focused on natural extraction and transition to an energy source without fossil fuels.

We should protect and dig coal (even if we don't burn it), invest in renewables (including nuclear) and ban fracking.

Endorsed.

Did you mean Australia? cause this makes no sense.

Born in america, lived in la. Cool.

So, you're saying the US imports fuel from overseas instead of digging coal?  Cause that's not how it works.

[Intell]

Instead of digging coal in America to hire workers we instead just import fossil fuels from overseas, so libs can feel good about themselves. Endorsed, the coal industry should be protected until we transition into diversifying economies focused on natural extraction and transition to an energy source without fossil fuels.

We should protect and dig coal (even if we don't burn it), invest in renewables (including nuclear) and ban fracking.

Endorsed.

Did you mean Australia? cause this makes no sense.

Born in america, lived in la. Cool.

So, you're saying the US imports fuel from overseas instead of digging coal?  Cause that's not how it works.

Yes it does.

[DINGO Joe]

Instead of digging coal in America to hire workers we instead just import fossil fuels from overseas, so libs can feel good about themselves. Endorsed, the coal industry should be protected until we transition into diversifying economies focused on natural extraction and transition to an energy source without fossil fuels.

We should protect and dig coal (even if we don't burn it), invest in renewables (including nuclear) and ban fracking.

Endorsed.

Did you mean Australia? cause this makes no sense.

Born in america, lived in la. Cool.

So, you're saying the US imports fuel from overseas instead of digging coal?  Cause that's not how it works.

Yes it does.

Well, we do still import some oil for transportation and Hawaii does import coal from Indonesia and a couple of Florida plants may still burn some Columbian coal, but the natural gas used in the US for electricity and everything else is from North America.  The US is actually a net exporter of natural gas, and a net exporter of coal for that matter.  I still don't get what you think is going on.