should sex dolls that look like kids be banned?
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  should sex dolls that look like kids be banned?
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Question: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned?
#1
yes
 
#2
no
 
#3
yes, but only if it can be proven it helps
 
#4
coward option
 
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Author Topic: should sex dolls that look like kids be banned?  (Read 2191 times)
dead0man
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« on: June 15, 2018, 11:03:03 PM »

the House passed a law this week banning the import and traficking of them.
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Atlantic article on dude that says they help him mange his urges (but he is selling something, so grain of salt and all that)
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dead0man
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2018, 11:03:55 PM »

the third option should be "no, but only if they are proven to help"
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2018, 11:41:09 PM »

No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course.

No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys.  The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like.

And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them.
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Cathcon
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2018, 08:36:52 AM »

No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course.

No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys.  The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like.

And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them.

I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2018, 09:01:41 AM »

Yeah, presumably the First Amendment allows for actual real life CP to be banned, so I'm not sure it's relevant here.

Anyway, I think if it leads to paedos being more likely to move on to real kids, it should be banned.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2018, 09:06:51 AM »

No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course.

No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys.  The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like.

And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them.

I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to.

It just says speech
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Cathcon
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2018, 09:08:12 AM »

Yeah, presumably the First Amendment allows for actual real life CP to be banned, so I'm not sure it's relevant here.

Anyway, I think if it leads to paedos being more likely to move on to real kids, it should be banned.

Yeah, I think a utilitarian approach is probably best here. If... well, I don’t know how we’d research it without putting people in harm’s way, but if the evidence showed that it could contain the pedo population, it has its uses. Otherwise, discard and ban. And regardless, not the type of thing that should be made available on-demand to the general public.
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Cathcon
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2018, 09:09:08 AM »

No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course.

No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys.  The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like.

And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them.

I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to.

It just says speech

And it’s okay to punish people for shouting “fire” in a crowded movie theater because...?
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Goldwater
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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2018, 09:15:48 AM »

Yeah, presumably the First Amendment allows for actual real life CP to be banned, so I'm not sure it's relevant here.

The difference here is that real life child porn invloves real life children who can't consent to such things, while consent isn't an issue for inanimate objects.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2018, 10:09:56 AM »
« Edited: June 16, 2018, 10:13:40 AM by Free Speech Hawk🦋 »

Yeah, presumably the First Amendment allows for actual real life CP to be banned, so I'm not sure it's relevant here.

Anyway, I think if it leads to paedos being more likely to move on to real kids, it should be banned.

The First Amendment protects speech as well as art/porn and I think sex dolls would fall into the latter category.  Real child porn is banned because children cannot consent.  Fake porn doesn't cause demonstrable harm to any human being in its, erm, production.

Why would they make pedophiles more likely to prey on real children?  The purpose of the dolls is to deter would-be predators so that their perverted fantasies remain just that - fantasies.

I agree with Cath that they shouldn't be available on-demand.  Should psychiatrists be required to write prescriptions for child sex dolls?  I dunno.  I doubt anyone's gone through the lengths to study it, but until science finds the 'cure' for pedophilia, then the dolls are probably the best available option.
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CrabCake
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2018, 10:21:46 AM »

Read the Atlantic article - there is just as much evidence that it will cause a higher chance of offending than the opposite. Personally I'm very sceptical that these people will be satisfied by their dolls, although I admit that's more of a gut feeling (because there isn't much hard evidence either way).
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Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 03:43:06 PM »

No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course.

No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys.  The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like.

And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them.

I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to.

It just says speech

And it’s okay to punish people for shouting “fire” in a crowded movie theater because...?

It's only punishable if there is no fire and it creates a panic. Freedom of speech is not limited to political speech.
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Cathcon
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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2018, 10:02:08 PM »

No, and neither should artistic depictions of children in sexual situations - with reasonable obscenity laws in place, of course.

No matter how appalling or distasteful, the government has no place to regulate art or inanimate sex toys.  The First Amendment still applies, even to things we don't like.

And, if it prevents a pedophile from going after a real child, I honestly don't see the reason to ban them.

I mean, the First Amendment seems pretty obviously to have been referring to political speech, not what one wanked to.

It just says speech

And it’s okay to punish people for shouting “fire” in a crowded movie theater because...?

It's only punishable if there is no fire and it creates a panic. Freedom of speech is not limited to political speech.

Far be it from me to argue the Constitution with a lawyer, but if we imagine why someone would author such an amendment in the environment of the founding and shortly thereafter, it seems rather obvious that the goal was to secure the ability to trade political ideas freely. Beyond that, my comment was not related to "what is", or perhaps even "what should be", but "what was". Pulling some literalist argument seems to miss the point. I understand if your political goals are to maximize liberty and thus to willfully interpret things a certain way; my goals are not.
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Co-Chair Bagel23
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2018, 12:55:08 AM »

No.
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2018, 02:19:25 PM »

No. It's been well-proven that pedophiles have an intense compulsion that is extremely hard for them to regulate. Many give into their compulsions and wind up in prison for child porn or child molestation (where they belong) and many others are fully aware of how horrible these compulsions are and wind up taking their own life.

I can't say I'm not revolted by the idea, but if things like these "dolls" and animated child porn with no real children involved in the making help them to alleviate those compulsions enough to function in society, aren't they actually protecting children?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2018, 03:23:17 PM »

...oh boy, I had forgotten just how depraved this place is when something like that is even up for debate. Yes, of course it should be banned (literally normal and sane).
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dead0man
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2018, 03:42:06 PM »

...oh boy, I had forgotten just how depraved this place is when something like that is even up for debate. Yes, of course it should be banned (literally normal and sane).
hey, this is a two way street here, we forgot how conservative you were too.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2018, 06:14:33 PM »

I'm torn between "f**k, this is just sick" and "this is sick, but better than actual child getting exploited". One already has to have pedophile fantasies to even try that.
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nclib
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2018, 10:25:17 PM »

It seems like there are two unproven hypotheses here:

1) Using a child sex doll will lead towards a pedophile offending a real life child
2) Using a child sex doll will give an outlet to a pedophile and decrease the chance of their offending a real life child

Since both are unproven and it is not obvious which is more likely, I'd say not to ban them.
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TPIG
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2018, 12:03:39 AM »

...oh boy, I had forgotten just how depraved this place is when something like that is even up for debate. Yes, of course it should be banned (literally normal and sane).

Agreed. I'm sorry, but it's not society's job to make life easier for pedophiles, and I think dolls like these would lead to a normalization of the idea of adult-on-child sex acts and make abuse more, not less, likely.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2018, 02:59:17 AM »

...oh boy, I had forgotten just how depraved this place is when something like that is even up for debate. Yes, of course it should be banned (literally normal and sane).
hey, this is a two way street here, we forgot how conservative you were too.

Right, the extreme fringe conservative position that mimicking sex acts with children is wrong. Roll Eyes
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dead0man
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« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2018, 05:24:28 AM »

not "extreme fringe", just regular old conservatism
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2018, 06:03:01 AM »

not "extreme fringe", just regular old conservatism

So being a progressive requires condoning pedophilic roleplaying now?
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2018, 06:11:35 AM »

dead0man really jumped the gun here. What the hell does it have to do with conservatism or liberalism?
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dead0man
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« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2018, 06:18:00 AM »

not "extreme fringe", just regular old conservatism

So being a progressive requires condoning pedophilic roleplaying now?
I don't know what being progressive requires, those people are hard to pin down.  The main through line seems to be anger, but not aimed at anything consistent (except maybe rich, white, males...which is odd, since so many progressives, especially here, are rich, white, males).
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