Economic anxiety is not why Trump was elected.
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 10:14:33 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Economic anxiety is not why Trump was elected.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5
Author Topic: Economic anxiety is not why Trump was elected.  (Read 5849 times)
ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
New Frontier
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,230
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -1.22

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2018, 11:03:10 AM »

Why do so many hispanics love Trump if this is true?  Do they hate themselves?  I really dk.
There are a few self-hating Hispanics, of course.

The main reason though is the fervent Catholicism among Latinos.

Keep in mind though, the overwhelming majority of Latinos voted for Hillary and a significant percentage of Latinos that voted for Trump were Cubans who escaped a "communist" country. Many Cubans feel turned off by the supposed "socialist" & "communist" policies of the Democrats. Most young Cubans don't feel that way though and the 2016 election shwoed that but older Cubans still vote in greater numbers.
Logged
TheSaint250
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,067


Political Matrix
E: -2.84, S: 5.22

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2018, 11:17:35 AM »

Stop.
Logged
Lord Admirale
Admiral President
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,880
United States Minor Outlying Islands


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -0.70

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2018, 11:51:43 AM »

Logged
Confused Democrat
reidmill
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,055
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2018, 02:30:52 PM »


It's true though.

Literally every interaction I've had with Trump supporters is the same. It's anecdotal, sure, but I've dealt with many, my family is made up of many, and they all seem to be a carbon copy of one another.

They hate immigrants, full stop. They try to play coy by saying they love legal immigrants, but that facade falls apart when they try to interact with someone who can't speak English. I've seen it happen over and over.

Logged
Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
olawakandi
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 87,809
Jamaica
Political Matrix
E: -6.84, S: -0.17


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2018, 02:31:04 PM »

We are going from a cyber economy instead of manufacturing. We have outsoursed many customer service jobs to India. Other countries have adapted to the new economy, but ours is slow. So, if you're not ethnic minority immigrant, you are gonna blame
Logged
Lord Admirale
Admiral President
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,880
United States Minor Outlying Islands


Political Matrix
E: -1.94, S: -0.70

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2018, 03:09:04 PM »


It's true though.

Literally every interaction I've had with Trump supporters is the same. It's anecdotal, sure, but I've dealt with many, my family is made up of many, and they all seem to be a carbon copy of one another.

They hate immigrants, full stop. They try to play coy by saying they love legal immigrants, but that facade falls apart when they try to interact with someone who can't speak English. I've seen it happen over and over.


Well I guess that's more of a problem with your racist family members, not so much people who voted for Donald Trump.

That's something you have to take up with them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Logged
The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow
slightlyburnttoast
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,050
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.42, S: -5.43

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2018, 03:19:47 PM »

I don't think it was entirely racial resentment, but also regional and intellectual resentment, that Trump effectively utilized. There was undoubtedly a 1920s-esque cultural dislocation feeling among "Middle Americans" that had never disappeared since the '20s but was in full force in 2016; fear of "coastal elites" and the "fake news media" was a driving force behind Trump's election, as was distrust in American universities and higher education. A recent poll of Republicans actually suggested that a majority of the GOP believes that going to college is a net negative for the country. This, plus the racial elements you mentioned, results in a very... "anxious" white rural working class. Trump stoked a feeling of discontent with popular culture and government and turned it into a cult following for himself, one that did not care for precision when it came to facts.

I'm not going to say that no poorer Trump voter was motivated by economic interest, even though I think such individuals were terribly misguided. To be fair, even though I think most of us could see through it, Trump promised lots of respectable positions regarding the social safety net, although it's clear he had absolutely no intention of sticking to those promises. The bigger reason I think some less financially well-off voters gravitated to the Trump, though, was simply discontent with the economy under a two-term Democratic administration, despite the economy being very strong for most of the country; there will forever be some Americans who don't feel the benefits of a strong economy and thus will seek whatever turnover is necessary to achieve those benefits for themselves.

But let's not forget that a majority of poor people in this country are not rural West Virginians, but rather the urban poor. Clinton handily won a majority of people in the lowest income bracket in 2016, and I'm getting a little tired of seeing pundits using the term "working class" to solely refer to the white rural poor, and of seeing pundits consider Trump as the supposed voice for all struggling poor people in this country.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,610
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #82 on: June 17, 2018, 03:31:51 PM »

Unless we make these distinctions then there's little hope of meaningful debate on this matter. But I wonder sometimes whether that's the point.

Alas...
Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,258
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #83 on: June 17, 2018, 04:52:13 PM »

I don't think it was entirely racial resentment, but also regional and intellectual resentment, that Trump effectively utilized. There was undoubtedly a 1920s-esque cultural dislocation feeling among "Middle Americans" that had never disappeared since the '20s but was in full force in 2016; fear of "coastal elites" and the "fake news media" was a driving force behind Trump's election, as was distrust in American universities and higher education. A recent poll of Republicans actually suggested that a majority of the GOP believes that going to college is a net negative for the country. This, plus the racial elements you mentioned, results in a very... "anxious" white rural working class. Trump stoked a feeling of discontent with popular culture and government and turned it into a cult following for himself, one that did not care for precision when it came to facts.

I'm not going to say that no poorer Trump voter was motivated by economic interest, even though I think such individuals were terribly misguided. To be fair, even though I think most of us could see through it, Trump promised lots of respectable positions regarding the social safety net, although it's clear he had absolutely no intention of sticking to those promises. The bigger reason I think some less financially well-off voters gravitated to the Trump, though, was simply discontent with the economy under a two-term Democratic administration, despite the economy being very strong for most of the country; there will forever be some Americans who don't feel the benefits of a strong economy and thus will seek whatever turnover is necessary to achieve those benefits for themselves.

But let's not forget that a majority of poor people in this country are not rural West Virginians, but rather the urban poor. Clinton handily won a majority of people in the lowest income bracket in 2016, and I'm getting a little tired of seeing pundits using the term "working class" to solely refer to the white rural poor, and of seeing pundits consider Trump as the supposed voice for all struggling poor people in this country.

Indeed. What's ironic is that the only way you could really give those people what they want - a guarantee that their "way of life" will be kept alive forever and they will always be at the head of the table in terms of their place in the national culture - is through a program of authoritarian communism.

(1) Nationalize the coal industry (and other "old school" industries like steel) so that it can be kept operating at full capacity even if it isn't profitable. Treat it as a jobs program - substitute labor for capital wherever possible so you are employing the maximum number of miners possible. Stack management and supervisory roles with political loyalists.

(2) Cut off foreign trade in the name of "self reliance" and have the government open and operate factories if it's not profitable for private firms to do so. As above, the goal isn't efficiency, innovation or producing good products; it's just to employ as many people as possible.

(3) Control the organs of mass culture and present the idealized "real Americans" as white European-American Christians. Encourage other groups to assimilate into this identity, not unlike the Russification that was encouraged in the Soviet Union. "Subversive" art that does not fit this standard will be ruthlessly suppressed.

(4) Use economic central planning to evenly allocate industries among cities and regions, without regard to logistics or efficiency. The goal is simply to ensure that no one ever has to move away from the city/town they were born in to find employment.
Logged
Famous Mortimer
WillipsBrighton
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,010
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #84 on: June 17, 2018, 05:00:35 PM »


It's true though.

Literally every interaction I've had with Trump supporters is the same. It's anecdotal, sure, but I've dealt with many, my family is made up of many, and they all seem to be a carbon copy of one another.

They hate immigrants, full stop. They try to play coy by saying they love legal immigrants, but that facade falls apart when they try to interact with someone who can't speak English. I've seen it happen over and over.



People who immigrate to the United States should speak English. Why is this considered offensive?
Logged
💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)
peenie_weenie
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,416
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #85 on: June 17, 2018, 05:32:13 PM »
« Edited: June 17, 2018, 05:35:35 PM by peenie_weenie »


Excellent counter-argument, I am convinced.



I don't understand why people are so resistant to this point. Arguing that white grievance and class politics was an animating, if not the animating, factor of Trump's campaign isn't an argument that all 62,984,828 people who voted for Trump are robe-wearing Klansmen. It's an argument that Trump resonated in a unique way with Republican voters (at least among people running for President and the "party elites") because he was so open to vocalizing resentment towards immigrants, minorities, other countries, progressive women, etc. in a way that the party hadn't been openly doing before. That doesn't mean that people didn't vote for Trump for other reasons as well, but to anyone who has paid any attention in the last four years it should be obvious that open grievance politics is Trump's game.

edit: this (which I'm sure everyone here has seen at this point) is evidence that the economic anxiety card is way overplayed

Logged
Tekken_Guy
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,768
United States


P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #86 on: June 17, 2018, 05:54:14 PM »

Trump support, kind of like Sanders support, is linked to a feeling that Washington insiders have screwed people over for a long time. Support for Trump, however, can be fueled more by distrust of the media, academia, internet titans, Hollywood, international alliances, and world leaders. They feel there is a giant globalist network of elitists virtue signalers who are trying to get Clinton into office. Support for Clinton and Sanders comes more from distrust of older Americans, the criminal justice system, police, billionaires and corporations, and Evangelical Christians. They believe American society is at the whim of institutional racism, corporatocracy, and Religious influence.
Logged
💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)
peenie_weenie
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,416
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #87 on: June 17, 2018, 08:41:37 PM »

Excellent counter-argument, I am convinced.

Not saying "economic anxiety" is a real thing. In fact, the only people who seem to put forward that theory, albeit in sarcastic terms, are idiots on this website and on Twitter.

I simply disagree, coming from the knowledge of someone who once supported Trump, that "white identity politics" or some other crap is why Trump won. In fact, this makes me close to throwing up every time because of its disgusting implications, blatant lies, and easiness in fooling those who refuse critical analysis.

But there's not point in arguing that here. Let the echo chamber be an echo chamber I guess Smiley

Right, which is why I said:

Arguing that white grievance and class politics was an animating, if not the animating, factor of Trump's campaign isn't an argument that all 62,984,828 people who voted for Trump are robe-wearing Klansmen. It's an argument that Trump resonated in a unique way with Republican voters (at least among people running for President and the "party elites") because he was so open to vocalizing resentment towards immigrants, minorities, other countries, progressive women, etc. in a way that the party hadn't been openly doing before. That doesn't mean that people didn't vote for Trump for other reasons as well, but to anyone who has paid any attention in the last four years it should be obvious that open grievance politics is Trump's game.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Never Trump contingency of the Republican party can't swallow this argument because they think it's tantamount to personally accusing them of being racist. It's not -- I'm sure you guys have your own reasons for being Republican. But you come across as incredibly out of touch with the rest of your party when you try to fight the idea that most of your party's energy these days is being drawn from resentment.
Logged
TheSaint250
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,067


Political Matrix
E: -2.84, S: 5.22

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #88 on: June 17, 2018, 08:55:17 PM »

Excellent counter-argument, I am convinced.

Not saying "economic anxiety" is a real thing. In fact, the only people who seem to put forward that theory, albeit in sarcastic terms, are idiots on this website and on Twitter.

I simply disagree, coming from the knowledge of someone who once supported Trump, that "white identity politics" or some other crap is why Trump won. In fact, this makes me close to throwing up every time because of its disgusting implications, blatant lies, and easiness in fooling those who refuse critical analysis.

But there's not point in arguing that here. Let the echo chamber be an echo chamber I guess Smiley

Right, which is why I said:

Arguing that white grievance and class politics was an animating, if not the animating, factor of Trump's campaign isn't an argument that all 62,984,828 people who voted for Trump are robe-wearing Klansmen. It's an argument that Trump resonated in a unique way with Republican voters (at least among people running for President and the "party elites") because he was so open to vocalizing resentment towards immigrants, minorities, other countries, progressive women, etc. in a way that the party hadn't been openly doing before. That doesn't mean that people didn't vote for Trump for other reasons as well, but to anyone who has paid any attention in the last four years it should be obvious that open grievance politics is Trump's game.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Never Trump contingency of the Republican party can't swallow this argument because they think it's tantamount to personally accusing them of being racist. It's not -- I'm sure you guys have your own reasons for being Republican. But you come across as incredibly out of touch with the rest of your party when you try to fight the idea that most of your party's energy these days is being drawn from resentment.

Maybe it's something along the lines of us NeverTrumpers resenting hearing our family members, our friends, our teachers, our teammates, and more being called racist. I hate hearing that my family members are supposedly hateful people because they support Trump when these are not the values we were raised with; this is common for a strong majority of pro-Trump Americans. Do I agree with their support of him? No. But I'm not going to resort to inflammatory, blatantly false rhetoric because I disagree with them.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and that's all I'd like to say on the topic. There's a reason I don't respond to false claims of racism and discrimination often, but there's only so much I can take reading this garbage before I throw up.
Logged
heatcharger
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,238
Sweden


Political Matrix
E: -1.04, S: -0.24

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #89 on: June 17, 2018, 09:24:06 PM »

Anyway, that's my two cents, and that's all I'd like to say on the topic. There's a reason I don't respond to false claims of racism and discrimination often, but there's only so much I can take reading this garbage before I throw up.

Actually it feels like it's one of the topics you speak up most about, so...
Logged
💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)
peenie_weenie
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,416
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #90 on: June 17, 2018, 09:30:46 PM »

Excellent counter-argument, I am convinced.

Not saying "economic anxiety" is a real thing. In fact, the only people who seem to put forward that theory, albeit in sarcastic terms, are idiots on this website and on Twitter.

I simply disagree, coming from the knowledge of someone who once supported Trump, that "white identity politics" or some other crap is why Trump won. In fact, this makes me close to throwing up every time because of its disgusting implications, blatant lies, and easiness in fooling those who refuse critical analysis.

But there's not point in arguing that here. Let the echo chamber be an echo chamber I guess Smiley

Right, which is why I said:

Arguing that white grievance and class politics was an animating, if not the animating, factor of Trump's campaign isn't an argument that all 62,984,828 people who voted for Trump are robe-wearing Klansmen. It's an argument that Trump resonated in a unique way with Republican voters (at least among people running for President and the "party elites") because he was so open to vocalizing resentment towards immigrants, minorities, other countries, progressive women, etc. in a way that the party hadn't been openly doing before. That doesn't mean that people didn't vote for Trump for other reasons as well, but to anyone who has paid any attention in the last four years it should be obvious that open grievance politics is Trump's game.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Never Trump contingency of the Republican party can't swallow this argument because they think it's tantamount to personally accusing them of being racist. It's not -- I'm sure you guys have your own reasons for being Republican. But you come across as incredibly out of touch with the rest of your party when you try to fight the idea that most of your party's energy these days is being drawn from resentment.

Maybe it's something along the lines of us NeverTrumpers resenting hearing our family members, our friends, our teachers, our teammates, and more being called racist. I hate hearing that my family members are supposedly hateful people because they support Trump when these are not the values we were raised with; this is common for a strong majority of pro-Trump Americans. Do I agree with their support of him? No. But I'm not going to resort to inflammatory, blatantly false rhetoric because I disagree with them.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and that's all I'd like to say on the topic. There's a reason I don't respond to false claims of racism and discrimination often, but there's only so much I can take reading this garbage before I throw up.

Hmm... but I have family members, friends, teachers, and former teammates who support Trump and actually are motivated by anger, fear, and resentment.

Whose annecotes will win?!?!
Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,258
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2018, 09:58:50 PM »

Excellent counter-argument, I am convinced.

Not saying "economic anxiety" is a real thing. In fact, the only people who seem to put forward that theory, albeit in sarcastic terms, are idiots on this website and on Twitter.

I simply disagree, coming from the knowledge of someone who once supported Trump, that "white identity politics" or some other crap is why Trump won. In fact, this makes me close to throwing up every time because of its disgusting implications, blatant lies, and easiness in fooling those who refuse critical analysis.

But there's not point in arguing that here. Let the echo chamber be an echo chamber I guess Smiley

Right, which is why I said:

Arguing that white grievance and class politics was an animating, if not the animating, factor of Trump's campaign isn't an argument that all 62,984,828 people who voted for Trump are robe-wearing Klansmen. It's an argument that Trump resonated in a unique way with Republican voters (at least among people running for President and the "party elites") because he was so open to vocalizing resentment towards immigrants, minorities, other countries, progressive women, etc. in a way that the party hadn't been openly doing before. That doesn't mean that people didn't vote for Trump for other reasons as well, but to anyone who has paid any attention in the last four years it should be obvious that open grievance politics is Trump's game.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Never Trump contingency of the Republican party can't swallow this argument because they think it's tantamount to personally accusing them of being racist. It's not -- I'm sure you guys have your own reasons for being Republican. But you come across as incredibly out of touch with the rest of your party when you try to fight the idea that most of your party's energy these days is being drawn from resentment.

Maybe it's something along the lines of us NeverTrumpers resenting hearing our family members, our friends, our teachers, our teammates, and more being called racist. I hate hearing that my family members are supposedly hateful people because they support Trump when these are not the values we were raised with; this is common for a strong majority of pro-Trump Americans. Do I agree with their support of him? No. But I'm not going to resort to inflammatory, blatantly false rhetoric because I disagree with them.

Anyway, that's my two cents, and that's all I'd like to say on the topic. There's a reason I don't respond to false claims of racism and discrimination often, but there's only so much I can take reading this garbage before I throw up.

But by voting for Trump, they were tacitly saying that overt racism does not bother them. Is that really so much better?
Logged
junior chįmp
Mondale_was_an_insidejob
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,396
Croatia
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #92 on: June 17, 2018, 10:03:24 PM »

Trump support, kind of like Sanders support, is linked to a feeling that Washington insiders have screwed people over for a long time. Support for Trump, however, can be fueled more by distrust of the media, academia, internet titans, Hollywood, international alliances, and world leaders. They feel there is a giant globalist network of elitists virtue signalers who are trying to get Clinton into office. Support for Clinton and Sanders comes more from distrust of older Americans, the criminal justice system, police, billionaires and corporations, and Evangelical Christians. They believe American society is at the whim of institutional racism, corporatocracy, and Religious influence.

In a country where shows like ''Ancient Aliens'' and ''Storage Wars'' get high ratings...do you honestly think that Trump voters put that much thought into it? Just lol...apparently Trump voters are now intellectual savants of philosophy, economics, and sociology.

While I have no doubt that the American system is one big joke and con job rigged to screw over average workers...the idea that Joe the Trump voter from the holler put as much though into it as your post suggest is laughable. The average Trump voter puts more thought into what frozen dinner he's going to re-heat for dinner or who he's gonna vote for American idol than who he voted for in 2016. Most walked into the voting booth, scratched their ass and let out a fart, and mindlessly voted for Trump.
Logged
Rookie Yinzer
RFKFan68
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,188
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #93 on: June 17, 2018, 10:34:49 PM »

The triggered snowflakes in this thread who can't handle the fact that the vast majority of white people do hold racially biased views is funny. Newsflash, racism is not just about burning crosses and calling people the N word. Smiley

Most walked into the voting booth, scratched their ass and let out a fart, and mindlessly voted for Trump.
Lmaoooooooo. I literally can't breathe.
Logged
Sprouts Farmers Market ✘
Sprouts
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,752
Italy


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: 1.74

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #94 on: June 17, 2018, 11:02:26 PM »


It's true though.

Literally every interaction I've had with Trump supporters is the same. It's anecdotal, sure, but I've dealt with many, my family is made up of many, and they all seem to be a carbon copy of one another.

They hate immigrants, full stop. They try to play coy by saying they love legal immigrants, but that facade falls apart when they try to interact with someone who can't speak English. I've seen it happen over and over.



People who immigrate to the United States should speak English. Why is this considered offensive?

Because you are forcefully tearing a culture away from people, which is no different than genocide. America is an enormous country, and we have plenty of room for people to self segregate into a group based on shared values including language. This is - or should be - the beauty of America. We need to prevent contamination of the pieces that make the whole and that includes many languages.
Logged
Badger
badger
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 40,258
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #95 on: June 17, 2018, 11:14:19 PM »

Unless we make these distinctions then there's little hope of meaningful debate on this matter. But I wonder sometimes whether that's the point.

Alas...

And it just keeps going......
Logged
KingSweden
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,227
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #96 on: June 17, 2018, 11:15:37 PM »


It's true though.

Literally every interaction I've had with Trump supporters is the same. It's anecdotal, sure, but I've dealt with many, my family is made up of many, and they all seem to be a carbon copy of one another.

They hate immigrants, full stop. They try to play coy by saying they love legal immigrants, but that facade falls apart when they try to interact with someone who can't speak English. I've seen it happen over and over.



People who immigrate to the United States should speak English. Why is this considered offensive?

Because you are forcefully tearing a culture away from people, which is no different than genocide. America is an enormous country, and we have plenty of room for people to self segregate into a group based on shared values including language. This is - or should be - the beauty of America. We need to prevent contamination of the pieces that make the whole and that includes many languages.

I (as a child of immigrants myself) do think it is valuable for immigrants to learn the language of the country, though. Not because it appeases bigoted nativists but because it does genuinely make their lives easier, especially if they don’t live in a place with a large and active expat community from their homeland.
Logged
Confused Democrat
reidmill
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,055
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #97 on: June 18, 2018, 12:14:45 AM »


It's true though.

Literally every interaction I've had with Trump supporters is the same. It's anecdotal, sure, but I've dealt with many, my family is made up of many, and they all seem to be a carbon copy of one another.

They hate immigrants, full stop. They try to play coy by saying they love legal immigrants, but that facade falls apart when they try to interact with someone who can't speak English. I've seen it happen over and over.


Well I guess that's more of a problem with your racist family members, not so much people who voted for Donald Trump.

That's something you have to take up with them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I Think you misread my post.

I was referring to many people outside of my family, as well as my family.
Logged
Sir Mohamed
MohamedChalid
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,468
United States



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #98 on: June 18, 2018, 02:41:49 AM »

I haven't read the entire four pages of discussion, but there is not just one type of Trump voter. There are a few different categories, who had their own motives for voting for him. Of course, these categories are not fixed and overlap each other.

A brief summary:

- The economic depressed ones, who are mostly in the Rust Belt. Many voted for Obama twice, but blamed globalism, trade deals and "the system" for their struggles to make ends meat.

- The traditional conservatives and wealthy businessmen, who were mostly not enthusiastic about the many scandals, but couldn't vote for Hillary for a number of reasons. The Supreme Court, of course, was a main issue for them (tax cuts a mative for the wealthy businesspeople).

- And then there are the so-called deplorables, who voted for racist and xenophobic reasons for Trump. Some of them belong to the first group but didn't vote at all in previous elections (the older ones supported dudes like Pat Buchanan in the past or were called Dixiecrats).

What unifies them is their desire to shake up a system they don't feel represented by. Each for their own reasons. So, it's more complicated than suggested by the OP. I'd say: Not all Trump voters are racist, but almost all racists are Trump voters.
Logged
Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,504
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #99 on: June 18, 2018, 05:51:16 AM »
« Edited: June 18, 2018, 05:54:48 AM by Fuzzy Bear »


It's true though.

Literally every interaction I've had with Trump supporters is the same. It's anecdotal, sure, but I've dealt with many, my family is made up of many, and they all seem to be a carbon copy of one another.

They hate immigrants, full stop. They try to play coy by saying they love legal immigrants, but that facade falls apart when they try to interact with someone who can't speak English. I've seen it happen over and over.



People who immigrate to the United States should speak English. Why is this considered offensive?

Because you are forcefully tearing a culture away from people, which is no different than genocide. America is an enormous country, and we have plenty of room for people to self segregate into a group based on shared values including language. This is - or should be - the beauty of America. We need to prevent contamination of the pieces that make the whole and that includes many languages.

I (as a child of immigrants myself) do think it is valuable for immigrants to learn the language of the country, though. Not because it appeases bigoted nativists but because it does genuinely make their lives easier, especially if they don’t live in a place with a large and active expat community from their homeland.

Immigration should not be a burden on taxpayers in the say that, say, the safety net is.  It's one thing to have social welfare benefits for American citizens; it's quite another to have these benefits for non-citizens, and especially for folks who are not legally in America.  And while many of the memes on Facebook and such that talk about "Illegal Aliens getting welfare" are false, they DO impact our safety net when they go to a public hospital ER or a public psychiatric unit.  Their children DO go to school here, and that adds to the education budget.  

The issue with English is simple.  Americans should not be forced to learn Spanish simply because a large percentage of its new immigrants are Spanish-speakers that don't wish to learn English.  This is a different issue than in Ellis Island years because the Ellis Island immigrants came from diverse places across the sea, while current Hispanic immigrants from Mexico come from next door.  The idea of forsaking their homeland and becoming American doesn't apply in the way it does for someone from Europe or Asia.  

Many folks are resentful of having a greater need to learn a foreign language.  They are resentful about having to provide bi-lingual services at their businesses, and they resent (in some areas) how NOT being bi-lingual puts them at a disadvantage for some jobs.  This wasn't the case prior to 1965, when immigration was based on quotas designed to ensure that the ethnic makeup of America didn't radically change.

These changes have been great for industry; they now have a base of low-wage non-unionized workers for their businesses (in the case of much of the Hispanic immigrants).  They have been good for the immigrants, who do enjoy a higher standard of living in America than they did in their country of origin.  But has it been good for American citizens that we have had large influxes of immigrants from other places who are, culturally, quite different, and whose legitimate needs have placed a burden on American taxpayers?

The American citizens who ask these sorts of questions never really get a straight answer.  They get lectures about how in diversity there is strength, without really showing how that principle applies to their situation (let alone demonstrating how it is actually true).  And, yes, they get the xenophobic reactions to evaluate, but they also get to be called xenophobes just for asking the question of "How is this good for the folks who have been citizens of this country for their whole lives?"  When they see "diversity" in other parts of the world, they see it not as part of the richness of those nations, but as a problem that needs to be overcome or managed.  Greeks and Turks on Cyprus.  Flemish and Walloons in Belgium.  The problems of unassimilated Muslims in much of old Europe.  Hindus and Muslims in India.  The world has not become the Melting Pot America tries to be.

If folks want to know the cause of much of the "anger" surrounding this issue, it is simple; folks are angry because they have to bear the costs of these non-citizens to some degree, they don't get an honest answer as to why this is either right or good for them from their government, they get lectures on diversity that range from political correctness to indoctrination, and they experience their intelligence being insulted on a number of levels.  And the ILLEGAL immigrants make that worse.  When their kids mess up, they go to jail.  When their tag light is out, they get a costly ticket from Officer Friendly, often after being pulled over with a request to search their car.  When folks crash the border, however, they seem to get to stay endlessly, without consequence.  The illegal addition to their home will come down faster than an illegal alien will be deported, even if the illegal addition to one's home is safe and functional.  

Perhaps someone here will be able to explain why immigration in the manner that we have now is good for me and for my family (as well as for my country) without mentioning how good it is for the immigrants.  
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.09 seconds with 11 queries.