Italian Elections and Politics 2022 - Our Time to Schlein

[Antonio the Sixth]

The old thread reached 85 pages, so I guess it's time for a new one.

For anyone who's joining us now, the M5S-Lega coalition government ostensibly "led" by Random Guy Giuseppe Conte has swiftly devolved into the Salvini Government, as the xenophobic neckbeard continues to monopolize attention with provocative statements and actions, like closing off Italian ports to the ships of NGOs rescuing migrants (which is, you know, against international law, but who's counting?).

So yeah, good times.

[Diouf]

Lega first in the polls for the first time

[Tender Branson]

Lega first in the polls for the first time.

Not surprising, considering 60% of Italians agree with Salvini's common-sense policy on immigration.

Also: Antonio, please remove your (broken) signature.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Lega first in the polls for the first time

...well, it had to happen. Now let's see how long it takes for Salvini to topple the government, re-form the right coalition, and win an absolute majority. I say it won't be more than two years.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Government's honeymoon period - Lega's especially. Not much can be read into that - remember where the PD were during the first phase of the Renzi government and where they ended up...

...of course the absolute state of all parties not in the government can be raised at this juncture, but, hey, it isn't as if MS5 (for instance) was in good nick going into the last election really, what with the failing municipal administrations etc.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Government's honeymoon period - Lega's especially. Not much can be read into that - remember where the PD were during the first phase of the Renzi government and where they ended up...

The difference here is that Salvini, being technically a "junior" partner (despite having written 70% of the government's program) can always turn and blame M5S for everything he fails to do, while getting credit for everything he succeeds in. It's a win-win situation.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I wonder who is actually voting for FI at this point - bored housewives who watch Berlusconi stations all day?

[Tintrlvr]

I wonder who is actually voting for FI at this point - bored housewives who watch Berlusconi stations all day?

Conservative southerners with memories longer than two years?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Government's honeymoon period - Lega's especially. Not much can be read into that - remember where the PD were during the first phase of the Renzi government and where they ended up...

The difference here is that Salvini, being technically a "junior" partner (despite having written 70% of the government's program) can always turn and blame M5S for everything he fails to do, while getting credit for everything he succeeds in. It's a win-win situation.

Possibly, yes. But there's no way the government overall ends up unscathed by being in power, even if one of the parties in it is that lucky: it's actually quite likely that if that's the case it will be by cannibalising its own partner. No government of the Second Republic has been re-elected* and there's no reason (other than a certain understandable pessimism) to expect that to change...

<sub>(flash forward: government is defeated by an entirely new party of moronic populism as yet unknown. PD somehow manage to lose further support).

*Quite a fact when you think about it...</sub>

[MAINEiac4434]

Lega first in the polls for the first time

PD SURGE

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1008726533832429568

[Former President tack50]

Well, seems like Italy didn't learn the lesson 80 years ago

Still, wouldn't most Roma gypsies be either Italians or from other EU countries? (ie still can't be deported unless they make a crime). How many non EU Roma people can there be?

[DavidB.]

Well, seems like Italy didn't learn the lesson 80 years ago

Still, wouldn't most Roma gypsies be either Italians or from other EU countries? (ie still can't be deported unless they make a crime). How many non EU Roma people can there be?

France did it too, in 2009, deporting them to Romania and Bulgaria. I believe there used to be certain options for EU member states to deport other EU nationals, for instance when they are homeless or do not have work. Not sure if that's still the case.

[Classic Conservative]

Why don’t people like the Roma? I’ve always been confused by that.

[Devout Centrist]

Why don’t people like the Roma? I’ve always been confused by that.

You can’t imagine why Certain People would dislike brown, vaguely Eastern itinerants?

[rob in cal]

  Isn't it the perception, fair or unfair, that they are involved in tonnes of petty crimes, such as pick pocketing and various scams?

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Well, Roma people generally are not integrated with the rest of the society. At least in case of Poland the mechanism looked like this: in the sixties govt decided to ban nomadism and Roma people had to settle what was not really natural for them as they used to wander freely around the country (and not only). Until that moment they were always aliens to other nationalities, contacts were limited to some trade and parties (as Roma also used to be employed as musicians before II World War, as for now Roma music is still distinct music genre). There were a lot of negative stereotypes - as always with isolated, hermetic groups which about general populace do not know much. On the other hand many stereotypes are unfortunately true. Roma people generally have problem to get normal jobs as they are perceived as thieves (data is not easily accessible but generally in that case stereotype is reflection of reality) - but this is also self-enforcing stereotype because when some member of Roma community want to get job employer who knows that he or she is a Roma will not employ him. Also often Roma people make begging as their main source of income. The bigger social problems with Roma are obviously in countries like Slovakia (infamous Lunik XI https://www.google.pl/search?q=lunik+IX&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiy9pCkjd_bAhVIApoKHVB9B4w4FBD8BQgKKAE&biw=1707&bih=808), Hungary, Bulgaria or Romania where Roma population is the biggest and obviously anti-Roma sentiments are the strongest. I guess due to former nomadic lifestyle Roma people do not have any sort of need for taking care of their homes, as I seen some Roma districts also in Poland there were a lot of kitsch and dirt. Similarly cultural issues did not let them easy to live a lifestyle of the rest of society. Also Roma societies are strongly patriarchal and isolated, with strong distinction of Roma and non-Roma what also does not help with integration. There are a lot of conflicts in towns where there is strong Roma minority. But obviously there are Roma people who live normal, ordinary people lives. There are also positive stereotypes about Roma people, mainly those oriented around their freedom and musicality as people tend to romanticize times of Roma nomads. But negative ones dominate, and unfortunately they are often true.

[Antonio the Sixth]

https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1008726533832429568

"Unfortunately, we can't kick out these people who are citizens of our country merely on the basis of their ethnicity (even though we'd very much like to)."

Yup, totally not racist or anything...

[parochial boy]

I see that Salvini is following the Kurz precedent of government by photo-opportunity

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Why don’t people like the Roma? I’ve always been confused by that.

You can’t imagine why Certain People would dislike brown, vaguely Eastern itinerants?

It's deeper than that: Roma are normally even lower on the totem pole than similarly disliked or poorly integrated groups like Maghrebis, Somalis, Kashmiris and Afghans. In northern Sheffield, for instance, there a quite a lot of Slovakian Roma people who have a highly tense relationship with locals of all races, who associate them with all kinds of petty crime. Crucially though, a lot of the tension has deflated since a few years ago, when people like David Blunkett were starting to proclaim that riots would be breaking out any minute.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/analysis/how-they-reduced-sheffield-s-boiling-pot-of-racial-tension-to-a-simmer-1-7860134

Anyway this is disturbing, although unfortunately not surprising.

[Tender Branson]

The Roma here are pretty well integrated and economically as well. I have never seen them as a problem.

Things changed a lot since the mid-1990s when right-wing extremist Franz Fuchs blew up and killed 3 of them (he lost both his hands as well and later hanged himself in his prison cell ... ironic, considering he had no hands left).

[jaichind]

Why don’t people like the Roma? I’ve always been confused by that.

My visits to Rome over the years gives me the impression that
a) Pickpockets are a big problem in Rome
b) A lot of the Pickpockets are Roma.

If my impression represents how local Italians see things I can see why action to deport non-citizen Roma could have political traction.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Transient groups on the margins of society are despised and maltreated the world over. It isn't very nice, but it also isn't unique to Europe and its various Gypsy populations. I gather that in North America they have these things called 'Reservations'.

[rob in cal]

  So, what is going on with Salvini and the migrant ships? On the one hand he refuses to take the Acquarius, but still Italian coast guard ships are bringing in others migrants, with more coming soon on the Diciotti.

[rob in cal]

  Is he talking about cleansing of cities of Roma or migrants or both?