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December 13, 2019, 10:34:05 am
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  International General Discussion (Moderators: Gustaf, afleitch, Hash, Kutasoff Hedzoff)
  Should There be a Revote on Brexit?
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Poll
Question: Should Britons be able to have a revote on Brexit?
#1
Briton: Yes
 
#2
Briton: No
 
#3
Non-Briton: Yes
 
#4
Non-Briton: No
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 160

Author Topic: Should There be a Revote on Brexit?  (Read 5966 times)
ingemann
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2018, 01:15:08 am »

No I think a revote would be a bad idea, we can always discuss whether this was "the People's Choice", but it would be destructive for British political discource to have a revote and moreso than leaving EU already have been, and that effect would spread to the rest of EU. But UK are welcome to rejoin later if it want to.
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rc18
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2018, 08:53:26 am »

I think the fact this protest only managed a few tens of thousands of participants in London of all places speaks volumes.

Thing is, the idea that any given issue should only be voted on once has never been how direct democracy works in practice.

We held dozens of referendums on "limiting mass immigration" until one eventually passed. Should the right-wing nationalists have just shut up when they lost the first one in the 1970s? or when they lost the Schengen vote in 2005? or the free movement vote in 2009?

There is a significant difference between having a vote, enacting the decision, and then later revisiting the issue versus attempting to stop the decision being enacted in the first place.

If we ever do actually leave then ardent remainers are well within their rights to campaign to rejoin, but it will be an even tougher sell than at the EUref. That's the real reason for arguing for a vote to overturn the referendum.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2018, 12:25:15 am »

No. Sorry, you can march on the Parliament waving EU flags all you want, doesn't change the result. People only started taking it seriously after they lost, when they should've been doing it during the f***ing campaign.

You've had the referendum, so stop crying about it and try to work out a decent deal with them.
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Grand Mufti of Northern Virginia
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« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2019, 11:58:01 pm »

Looks like a plurality of Britons now want to undo Brexit:

Britons would now vote to stay in EU, want second referendum: poll
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PSOL
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« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2019, 12:01:10 am »

No. Sorry, you can march on the Parliament waving EU flags all you want, doesn't change the result. People only started taking it seriously after they lost, when they should've been doing it during the f***ing campaign.

You've had the referendum, so stop crying about it and try to work out a decent deal with them.
This, they need to accept their failures and accept this mistake of a Democratic process like a big boy.

Maybe then people will be wiser down the road due to getting retribution for their actions.
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thr33_
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« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2019, 12:58:21 am »

Absolutely not. The British people voted to leave the EU. Sorry cosmopolitans, you lost and you don't get to have the nation vote on the same issue over and over again until they finally give you the answer you want.
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True Federalist
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« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2019, 01:04:28 am »

Absolutely not. The British people voted to leave the EU. Sorry cosmopolitans, you lost and you don't get to have the nation vote on the same issue over and over again until they finally give you the answer you want.

They voted to leave the EU with a wonderful deal in place that would give the UK everything it could ever want in a trade deal and more, as that's what the Leave campaign promised.  That's not what's gonna happen.  At this point, it looks like the only two options are a hard no-deal Brexit or staying in the EU.
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thr33_
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« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2019, 01:08:49 am »

Absolutely not. The British people voted to leave the EU. Sorry cosmopolitans, you lost and you don't get to have the nation vote on the same issue over and over again until they finally give you the answer you want.

They voted to leave the EU with a wonderful deal in place that would give the UK everything it could ever want in a trade deal and more, as that's what the Leave campaign promised.  That's not what's gonna happen.  At this point, it looks like the only two options are a hard no-deal Brexit or staying in the EU.
Odd reply.

They can pursue whichever trade deals with the US and other countries they want under WTO rules, and they won't have to deal with the cancer of open borders or exploitation RE:fisheries.
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Mangez des pommes !
Antonio V
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« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2019, 01:10:10 am »

Yes and no:

The best choice for the UK policy-wise would be to leave the EU but stay in the common market, Norway-style, and then call a new referendum specifically on whether they should also leave the common market, in full knowledge of the potentially disastrous economic implications. That way, the mandate of the referendum will have been formally respected, but those who call for a new referendum would also get a chance to make their case.
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Elect Bloomberg, Crush Corbyn
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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2019, 12:35:46 pm »

Unambiguously yes now that it's clear Jeremy Corbyn supports Brexit as a way to force the UK into crushing austerity.
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True Federalist
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« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2019, 01:35:51 pm »

Absolutely not. The British people voted to leave the EU. Sorry cosmopolitans, you lost and you don't get to have the nation vote on the same issue over and over again until they finally give you the answer you want.

They voted to leave the EU with a wonderful deal in place that would give the UK everything it could ever want in a trade deal and more, as that's what the Leave campaign promised.  That's not what's gonna happen.  At this point, it looks like the only two options are a hard no-deal Brexit or staying in the EU.
Odd reply.

They can pursue whichever trade deals with the US and other countries they want under WTO rules, and they won't have to deal with the cancer of open borders or exploitation RE:fisheries.

It would be shocking if the UK were able to get better deals with any non-Anglophone countries than the EU can. In some cases, they won't even get as good as they currently have as a member of the EU. Plus under a no-deal Brexit, the UK will see half its trade be subject to higher tariffs and additional delays and paperwork.
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2019, 03:04:04 pm »

Absolutely not. The British people voted to leave the EU. Sorry cosmopolitans, you lost and you don't get to have the nation vote on the same issue over and over again until they finally give you the answer you want.
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Alabama_Indy10
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« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2019, 03:33:00 pm »

Absolutely not. The British people voted to leave the EU. Sorry cosmopolitans, you lost and you don't get to have the nation vote on the same issue over and over again until they finally give you the answer you want.
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Storebought
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« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2019, 06:12:54 pm »

My own preference is that parliament -- the current one, and all later ones -- to simply ignore the referendum. It was just a campaign gimmick (a lot like Trump's wall) that no government need acknowledge. If it comes to it, jurists can discover or invent a Latin legal jargon to the effect that "Parliament refuses to smell a noisome odour."

Realistically, though, I agree with most everyone else here: there will be no second referendum. The thing is done.
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Izzyeviel
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« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2019, 07:09:30 pm »

Absolutely not. The British people voted to leave the EU. Sorry cosmopolitans, you lost and you don't get to have the nation vote on the same issue over and over again until they finally give you the answer you want.

This was the second referendum on the subject. We had to have another because Leavers demanded another ref after losing the first one by 9 million votes & 30%.
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MakeAmericaBritishAgain
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« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2019, 07:48:11 pm »

We should have a second vote, and then when we vote to remain, the leavers will demand best out of three, and then a fourth and fifth, every year for the rest of time. It could be like a new British tradition, national referendum day!
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Grand Mufti of Northern Virginia
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« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2019, 10:19:39 pm »

We should have a second vote, and then when we vote to remain, the leavers will demand best out of three, and then a fourth and fifth, every year for the rest of time. It could be like a new British tradition, national referendum day!

First, welcome to Atlas!

Secondly, I love your username.  Smiley
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Blairite
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« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2019, 10:27:51 pm »

My own preference is that parliament -- the current one, and all later ones -- to simply ignore the referendum. It was just a campaign gimmick (a lot like Trump's wall) that no government need acknowledge. If it comes to it, jurists can discover or invent a Latin legal jargon to the effect that "Parliament refuses to smell a noisome odour."

Realistically, though, I agree with most everyone else here: there will be no second referendum. The thing is done.

This is correct. However, if popular democracy is going to be a thing (ick), there should be a referendum between May's deal and remaining in the European Union.

(Though part of me is really looking forward to the UK getting its economy smashed and becoming even more peripheral to world affairs until is comes crawling back to the EU begging for readmission with Schengen and the Euro.)
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rc18
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« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2019, 08:08:28 am »

My own preference is that parliament -- the current one, and all later ones -- to simply ignore the referendum. It was just a campaign gimmick (a lot like Trump's wall) that no government need acknowledge. If it comes to it, jurists can discover or invent a Latin legal jargon to the effect that "Parliament refuses to smell a noisome odour."

Realistically, though, I agree with most everyone else here: there will be no second referendum. The thing is done.
(Though part of me is really looking forward to the UK getting its economy smashed and becoming even more peripheral to world affairs until is comes crawling back to the EU begging for readmission with Schengen and the Euro.)
When this is the attitude of remain supporters you canít exactly blame people for voting to leave.
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Izzyeviel
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« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2019, 08:41:54 am »

My own preference is that parliament -- the current one, and all later ones -- to simply ignore the referendum. It was just a campaign gimmick (a lot like Trump's wall) that no government need acknowledge. If it comes to it, jurists can discover or invent a Latin legal jargon to the effect that "Parliament refuses to smell a noisome odour."

Realistically, though, I agree with most everyone else here: there will be no second referendum. The thing is done.
(Though part of me is really looking forward to the UK getting its economy smashed and becoming even more peripheral to world affairs until is comes crawling back to the EU begging for readmission with Schengen and the Euro.)
When this is the attitude of remain supporters you canít exactly blame people for voting to leave.

Leave voters have assassinated an MP, plotted to kill another, publicly harass and threaten other MP's , cheer at the prospect of people losing their jobs and have no consideration for the negative effects Brexit will have on various industries. When that's the attitude of leave voters, can you really blame people for wanting to rejoin the EU?
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rc18
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« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2019, 10:11:18 am »

Here comes the whataboutery. Clearly I hit a nerve.

Leave voters have assassinated an MP, plotted to kill another, publicly harass and threaten other MP's
Ah yes, the actions of one deranged individual is clearly equivalent to opinions repeated ad nauseam on this forum.

cheer at the prospect of people losing their jobs and have no consideration for the negative effects Brexit will have on various industries.

Not believing project fear is not in the same universe as "cheer at the prospect of people losing their jobs".  Besides if this was actually a concern for you then you would care just as much about people saying they "want the UK economy smashed".  But you don't, why?


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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2019, 10:38:33 am »

They shouldn't need a re-vote to cancel Brexit. But, if that's what's politically necessary to avoid Brexit, sure, vote again.
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Izzyeviel
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« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2019, 11:18:53 am »

Here comes the whataboutery. Clearly I hit a nerve.

Leave voters have assassinated an MP, plotted to kill another, publicly harass and threaten other MP's
Ah yes, the actions of one deranged individual is clearly equivalent to opinions repeated ad nauseam on this forum.

cheer at the prospect of people losing their jobs and have no consideration for the negative effects Brexit will have on various industries.

Not believing project fear is not in the same universe as "cheer at the prospect of people losing their jobs".  Besides if this was actually a concern for you then you would care just as much about people saying they "want the UK economy smashed".  But you don't, why?




If Remainers wanted to smash the UK economy they'd vote Leave.

Project fear is turning out to be project fact and they don't care.

And it wasn't some lone individual. It was someone who knew full well what they were doing who had been influenced by the language of Brexit supporters who paint remainers as traitors, saboteurs, and every other name under the sun. Other Brexiteers have been jailed for attempting to assassinate other remain MP's, and just look at the abuse dealt out by them to Anna Soubry over the past month. Journalists need police protection from these guys.

Even Brexiteers like Owen Jones get threatened. Why? Because they're the wrong sort of brexiteer. They're not racist and happen to be gay.

700,000 Remainers marched peacefully throughout London. Several thousand brexiteers trashed Trafalgar square and attacked police horses.

But sure, Remainers are the more awful people who must be stopped.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2019, 11:29:46 am »

Of course not, Britain voted to leave so leave she must.
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2019, 05:18:28 pm »

My own preference is that parliament -- the current one, and all later ones -- to simply ignore the referendum. It was just a campaign gimmick (a lot like Trump's wall) that no government need acknowledge. If it comes to it, jurists can discover or invent a Latin legal jargon to the effect that "Parliament refuses to smell a noisome odour."

Realistically, though, I agree with most everyone else here: there will be no second referendum. The thing is done.

This is correct. However, if popular democracy is going to be a thing (ick), there should be a referendum between May's deal and remaining in the European Union.

(Though part of me is really looking forward to the UK getting its economy smashed and becoming even more peripheral to world affairs until is comes crawling back to the EU begging for readmission with Schengen and the Euro.)


Or they could try to pass a trade deal with the US similar to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93United_States_Free_Trade_Agreement
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