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| |-+  International General Discussion (Moderators: Gustaf, afleitch, Hash, Mr. Rogers' Bunkerhood)
| | |-+  Should There be a Revote on Brexit?
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Poll
Question: Should Britons be able to have a revote on Brexit?
Briton: Yes   -8 (5%)
Briton: No   -10 (6.3%)
Non-Briton: Yes   -62 (39%)
Non-Briton: No   -79 (49.7%)
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Total Voters: 159

Author Topic: Should There be a Revote on Brexit?  (Read 4937 times)
Hardline Remainer
Blairite
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« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2019, 07:26:07 pm »

My own preference is that parliament -- the current one, and all later ones -- to simply ignore the referendum. It was just a campaign gimmick (a lot like Trump's wall) that no government need acknowledge. If it comes to it, jurists can discover or invent a Latin legal jargon to the effect that "Parliament refuses to smell a noisome odour."

Realistically, though, I agree with most everyone else here: there will be no second referendum. The thing is done.

This is correct. However, if popular democracy is going to be a thing (ick), there should be a referendum between May's deal and remaining in the European Union.

(Though part of me is really looking forward to the UK getting its economy smashed and becoming even more peripheral to world affairs until is comes crawling back to the EU begging for readmission with Schengen and the Euro.)


Or they could try to pass a trade deal with the US similar to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93United_States_Free_Trade_Agreement
The European Union is many times more important to the UK than America is.
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MakeAmericaBritishAgain
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« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2019, 09:18:37 pm »

We should have a second vote, and then when we vote to remain, the leavers will demand best out of three, and then a fourth and fifth, every year for the rest of time. It could be like a new British tradition, national referendum day!

First, welcome to Atlas!

Secondly, I love your username.  Smiley

Thx, good to be here, also yeah I do think America should join us again, I mean we're gonna need some new friends after March Wink
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PSOL
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« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2019, 09:21:01 pm »

We should have a second vote, and then when we vote to remain, the leavers will demand best out of three, and then a fourth and fifth, every year for the rest of time. It could be like a new British tradition, national referendum day!

First, welcome to Atlas!

Secondly, I love your username.  Smiley

Thx, good to be here, also yeah I do think America should join us again, I mean we're gonna need some new friends after March Wink
#NoRepublicanismNoUnity
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MakeAmericaBritishAgain
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« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2019, 09:48:43 pm »

We should have a second vote, and then when we vote to remain, the leavers will demand best out of three, and then a fourth and fifth, every year for the rest of time. It could be like a new British tradition, national referendum day!

First, welcome to Atlas!

Secondly, I love your username.  Smiley

Thx, good to be here, also yeah I do think America should join us again, I mean we're gonna need some new friends after March Wink
#NoRepublicanismNoUnity

That might be a sticking point but I'll have a chat with Liz, also you guys are cool with taxation without representation right?
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2019, 10:09:03 pm »

We should have a second vote, and then when we vote to remain, the leavers will demand best out of three, and then a fourth and fifth, every year for the rest of time. It could be like a new British tradition, national referendum day!

First, welcome to Atlas!

Secondly, I love your username.  Smiley

Thx, good to be here, also yeah I do think America should join us again, I mean we're gonna need some new friends after March Wink


How about Americanizing Britain instead
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MakeAmericaBritishAgain
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« Reply #55 on: January 08, 2019, 10:20:44 pm »

We should have a second vote, and then when we vote to remain, the leavers will demand best out of three, and then a fourth and fifth, every year for the rest of time. It could be like a new British tradition, national referendum day!

First, welcome to Atlas!

Secondly, I love your username.  Smiley

Thx, good to be here, also yeah I do think America should join us again, I mean we're gonna need some new friends after March Wink


How about Americanizing Britain instead

We're already pretty Americanised, but anyway I think we'll pass on that offer
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thumb21
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« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2019, 06:53:02 pm »

I support a vote on no deal vs Theresa May's deal, but whether or not we're leaving has already been decided.
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Secret Cavern Survivor
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« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2019, 05:24:24 pm »

We should have a second vote, and then when we vote to remain, the leavers will demand best out of three, and then a fourth and fifth, every year for the rest of time. It could be like a new British tradition, national referendum day!

First, welcome to Atlas!

Secondly, I love your username.  Smiley

Thx, good to be here, also yeah I do think America should join us again, I mean we're gonna need some new friends after March Wink


How about Americanizing Britain instead

We're already pretty Americanised, but anyway I think we'll pass on that offer

If you spell it "Americanised" you're clearly not Americanized enough. Tongue
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rc18
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« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2019, 10:41:25 pm »

If Remainers wanted to smash the UK economy they'd vote Leave.

A wonderfully glib comment.  But the fact remains that it doesn't take much for many of those who express support for remain to reveal anti-British sentiment. For some, usually a subset of leftwing anti-Westerners, they saw the EU as diluting the "anglo-saxon" worlds influence, so the vote to leave unleashes their contempt. For others it is an elitist counter-peasant revolt, a kind of cynical response to loss of power that reveals little actual care for the UK, only their position. This is not a new observation.  Matthew Goodwin wrote a good article on the subject of Brexit including;

Quote
Many found further solace in a revival of elite theory, joining a long tradition of voicing suspicion of, if not open hostility toward, the mass public that can be traced back to Ancient Greece. The EU is simply too complex for ordinary people to understand. Elites know better. Apathy might be a good thing after all. But it has now gotten to the point where some jump on anything that goes wrong in Britain as a vindication of their anti-Brexit stance. A bank relocates workers to Frankfurt? Good! Economic growth down? Told you so! Food is a bit more expensive? Tough luck! I’ve grown tired of watching my fellow citizens cheer anything that looks even vaguely like national decline.
https://quillette.com/2018/08/03/britains-populist-revolt/


Project fear is turning out to be project fact and they don't care.

You have no idea what facts are as discussed below.  Besides under which scenario did Project Fear predict probable recessions in Germany, France etc. but not in Brexit Britain?  We were meant to be in recession merely for having the temerity to vote to leave, let alone actually act on it.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-6578731/Recession-stalks-eurozone-Germany-France-stall-just-ECB-ends-quantitative-easing.html

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/08/its-not-brexit-britain-most-likely-to-suffer-recession-its-germany

Your faith is completely detaching you from reality.


And it wasn't some lone individual. It was someone who knew full well what they were doing who had been influenced by the language of Brexit supporters who paint remainers as traitors, saboteurs, and every other name under the sun.

So it was one lone individual then.


Even Brexiteers like Owen Jones get threatened. Why? Because they're the wrong sort of brexiteer. They're not racist and happen to be gay.

What?!

Why are you making such an absurd, blatant, and easily refutable lie?

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1010934366300786688
Quote
Basically - as somebody who voted and campaigned for Remain, and would vote Remain in a hypothetical second referendum - the official Remain campaign was an embarrassing catastrophe, and official continuity Remain is even worse. The strategy and messaging is just dire.


700,000 Remainers marched peacefully throughout London.

Check your facts, even the pro-EU GLA says it was far less than that.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/05/peoples-vote-march-attended-third-number-organisers-claimed/


But sure, Remainers are the more awful people who must be stopped.

All you've demonstrated is you cannot structure a coherent argument in favour of your attitude without lies and misrepresentation.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 10:46:54 pm by rc18 »Logged
GoTfan
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« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2019, 04:49:31 am »

I think we should take the Lord Buckethead approach. That is; there should be a referendum on whether there should be another referendum.
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#WalkAwayFromDesantis
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« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2019, 10:20:09 pm »

I think yes, but it should have been stated before the first Brexit vote. In the 1995 Quebec referendum the first vote was about authorizing the Quebec government to start separation or autonomy talks with the feds. There was supposed to be a second referendum on if Quebec would accept or not the provincial government's new deal with Canada. With Brexit there should have been a second vote on the final deal.
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God-Empress Brie Larson
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« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2019, 10:32:08 pm »

tag yourself I'm wanting a foreign country's economy to be devastated so that that country will implement your preferred foreign and trade policies towards other foreign countries
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bronz4141
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« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2019, 02:42:56 pm »

Yes.
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fluffypanther19
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« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2019, 03:10:06 pm »

No, Brexit means Brexit. Understand?
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Julian Assange is a Snowflake
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« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2019, 03:32:51 pm »

Yes because Brexit is bad and therefore anything that could block it is good.
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Frodo
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« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2019, 07:26:34 pm »

tag yourself I'm wanting a foreign country's economy to be devastated so that that country will implement your preferred foreign and trade policies towards other foreign countries

Huh

Whom are you referring to?
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God-Empress Brie Larson
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« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2019, 07:34:45 pm »

tag yourself I'm wanting a foreign country's economy to be devastated so that that country will implement your preferred foreign and trade policies towards other foreign countries

Huh

Whom are you referring to?

Blairite, the Californian who's "looking forward to the UK getting its economy smashed".
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Secret Cavern Survivor
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« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2019, 07:47:29 pm »

Again, just get out of the EU, keep the Norway model provisionally, and hold a new referendum on that vs No Deal. Win-win.
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Mr. Rogers' Bunkerhood
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« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2019, 08:34:06 pm »

There must be consequences. You can't just make such a decision and then say "well, wait, we've changed out mind". It is both immature and disrespectful toward a democratic process.
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New Frontier
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« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2019, 12:12:54 am »

There must be consequences. You can't just make such a decision and then say "well, wait, we've changed out mind". It is both immature and disrespectful toward a democratic process.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2019, 01:19:03 am »

Some of you might do well to remember that Brexit is something that is going to have a huge human cost.

As it stands it's going to break up families, destroy livelihoods and so on. But sure, Britain should go through with it because I've got a bunch of facile clichés to flog
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YL
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« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2019, 03:42:36 am »

Again, just get out of the EU, keep the Norway model provisionally, and hold a new referendum on that vs No Deal. Win-win.

The Norway model doesn't deal with the Irish border issue, because Norway isn't in the Customs Union.
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YL
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« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2019, 03:48:42 am »

Some of you might do well to remember that Brexit is something that is going to have a huge human cost.

As it stands it's going to break up families, destroy livelihoods and so on. But sure, Britain should go through with it because I've got a bunch of facile clichés to flog

This.

Given how vague the choice in the original referendum was, I think it is also perfectly reasonable to have a second vote to confirm the decision once it is reasonably clear what "Leave" actually means.
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Lechasseur
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« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2019, 05:47:51 am »

Some of you might do well to remember that Brexit is something that is going to have a huge human cost.

As it stands it's going to break up families, destroy livelihoods and so on. But sure, Britain should go through with it because I've got a bunch of facile clichés to flog

This.

Given how vague the choice in the original referendum was, I think it is also perfectly reasonable to have a second vote to confirm the decision once it is reasonably clear what "Leave" actually means.

Agreed
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Velasco
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« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2019, 07:18:36 am »

Brexit is a disaster. However you look, the prospects for the UK outside Europe are anything but bright. The Britons who voted Brexit made a decision based on fake news and incorrect data. The Parliament voted against the deal and there are no feasible alternatives, only 'hard Brexit' and pain. Why not giving them the chance to reverse their decision or make the same mistake again?
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