opinion of straw bans

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

I'm not a big fan of the EU, but in this case I have to praise them. We use way too much plastics, which pollute the seas and make marine animals starve when they it them.
A EU-wide straw ban makes much more sense in an environmental sense than that unnecessary lightbulb ban.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Never really felt the need for straws myself.  The adult sippy cup lids that will be the likely replacement for most uses will do the job for about the same cost and a smidgen less plastic.

not at Starbucks.  link

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Making a regular lid into a sippy lid shouldn't add all that much more plastic and the amount added should be less than a straw.  Sounds like Starbucks must be having their sippy lids do something more than making it possible to sip their drinks. Either that or they have horrible designers,

Starbucks:
>Bans Plastic Straws
>Still Uses Plastic Cups

Star$$$ wants people to see their drinks, but yea, a plastic cup ban would be better plastic wise than a plastic straw ban.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

They should go after styrofoam instead.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Starbucks:
>Bans Plastic Straws
>Still Uses Plastic Cups

One is recyclable, the other is not.

And how much actually gets recycled?

[136or142]

I think the issue is whether this a just a meaningless one off  or part of a necessary wider campaign on plastic.  One thing to keep in mind is this isn't the first plastic to be targeted, at the very least, plastic bags were targeted before that.

There are lots of other things that need to be done to deal with plastics pollution but not all of them need to be bans.

In regards to the 'banning plastic straws is insignificant' the other way to look at it is: every little bit adds up.  So, if it's just 'now that the straws are banned we can all feel good and move on' then this was stupid and pointless, if it's 'now that we've shown proof of concept, we've successfully moved on from using non-reusable plastic straws, this is the next step' then it should be useful.

So, it's too soon to say.

The banning of the incandescent light bulb is actually quite instructive here.  At first the eventual cost savings of the alternatives were highlighted, but due to inertia (or status quo bias) it was difficult to get anybody interested in the alternatives.  There were also complaints about the alternatives (the quality of the light).  However, the technology of the alternatives improved and I don't think many people outside of the incandescent industry miss them anymore.

I suspect this will be the same with the non-reusable plastic straws, though I admit I'm not familiar with any possible technological developments of the alternatives.

[dead0man]

but again, plastic straws from the US are not what is trashing the ocean.  They make up a tiny fraction of garbage, and most of that garbage in the US ends up in land fills or a recycling center.  You want to clean up plastic in the ocean you're going to have to go after the fishermen and set up proper garbaging collection systems in the third world.

[136or142]

but again, plastic straws from the US are not what is trashing the ocean.  They make up a tiny fraction of garbage, and most of that garbage in the US ends up in land fills or a recycling center.  You want to clean up plastic in the ocean you're going to have to go after the fishermen and set up proper garbaging collection systems in the third world.

I don't know if anything is being done in those regards. If nothing is, it's pointless, if things are in the works, again, every little bit adds up.

[dead0man]

but you've got to factor in the harm.  If it helps a tiny bit, but harms a lot, it's not really helping anything.

[136or142]

but you've got to factor in the harm.  If it helps a tiny bit, but harms a lot, it's not really helping anything.

How does it harm a lot?

[dead0man]

people like straws.  If you're taking away something the vast majority of people like, you need to have a really good reason for it.  Plastic straws in the US almost always end up in a landfill* or a recycling center.



*I'm old enough to remember hippies freaking out over them too and since everything is cyclical, I keep expecting that one to come back around.

[136or142]

people like straws.  If you're taking away something the vast majority of people like, you need to have a really good reason for it.  Plastic straws in the US almost always end up in a landfill* or a recycling center.



*I'm old enough to remember hippies freaking out over them too and since everything is cyclical, I keep expecting that one to come back around.

Taking away something people like is not really 'a harm.'  You really don't believe that the vast majority of people will easily adjust?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Isn't most of the garbage the west creates exported to the third world anyway?

[dead0man]

people like straws.  If you're taking away something the vast majority of people like, you need to have a really good reason for it.  Plastic straws in the US almost always end up in a landfill* or a recycling center.



*I'm old enough to remember hippies freaking out over them too and since everything is cyclical, I keep expecting that one to come back around.

Taking away something people like is not really 'a harm.'

it is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

and bitch about it the entire time.  Who do you think they're going to be bitching at?  Do you think this will make it easier or harder to pass future environmental things that, ya know, might actually do something good for the environment?  Unlike straw bans.

Isn't most of the garbage the west creates exported to the third world anyway?

I can't find any numbers, my Google Fu is weak today.  I would be shocked if that was the case though.  I know we ship a lot of recyclable stuff (or at least used to), plastics and paper and what have you.  We don't have the facilities to recylce it all.  They use it to make stuff.  There would be no point in having your trash shipped halfway 'round the world to be put in a hole.  You can dig holes in the UK and save on shipping.

[136or142]

people like straws.  If you're taking away something the vast majority of people like, you need to have a really good reason for it.  Plastic straws in the US almost always end up in a landfill* or a recycling center.



*I'm old enough to remember hippies freaking out over them too and since everything is cyclical, I keep expecting that one to come back around.

Taking away something people like is not really 'a harm.'

it is.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

and bitch about it the entire time.  Who do you think they're going to be bitching at?  Do you think this will make it easier or harder to pass future environmental things that, ya know, might actually do something good for the environment?  Unlike straw bans.

Isn't most of the garbage the west creates exported to the third world anyway?

I can't find any numbers, my Google Fu is weak today.  I would be shocked if that was the case though.  I know we ship a lot of recyclable stuff (or at least used to), plastics and paper and what have you.  We don't have the facilities to recylce it all.  They use it to make stuff.  There would be no point in having your trash shipped halfway 'round the world to be put in a hole.  You can dig holes in the UK and save on shipping.

This is purely anecdotal, but from what I've seen, people in the restaurants I go to have already adjusted to drinking without using straws.  For the vast majority of people, there was no practical reason to use a straw anyway.  I know some people claim it's better for teeth health, and that may be true, but I don't think most people who used straws did so for their teeth health.

So, ultimately, while people may have enjoyed using straws, I don't think the vast majority care that they don't have the plastic disposable anyway straws anyway.  The only exceptions except for those who actually need to use straws are those who are ideologically opposed to all government regulations and they'll complain about anything.  These are the same people as the truckers who intentionally disable their truck's pollution reduction equipment to intentionally pollute as much as possible. Some people are just jerks.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Needless government interference and also has the unintended consequences of making things harder for disabled people.

[136or142]

This article by the (Canadian) National Post's Tristin Hopper is a really good examination of both sides of the argument.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-truth-about-ocean-plastic-why-straw-bans-are-not-the-earth-saving-milestone-you-might-think

During the time of the Harper government I dismissed Hopper as a toady for the Harper Conservatives for which he banned me on twitter.  He has since shown that he is a very fair minded journalist as well as a very fine writer.  He is one  of two people on twitter who I really regret being banned by.  (I have no idea what caused the other person to ban me.)

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

The idea of a plastic straw ban is a really good one, so long as we know that whatever replaces plastic straws has less plastic. I really disagree with the idea that banning plastic straws is useless under all circumstances. For one thing, as others have pointed out, plastic straws are in many (but not all -- thank you scarlet, and I'm not being sarcastic) cases unnecessary, and people should be aware of how much waste they are producing on items they use for literal minutes. That waste, in many cases, takes centuries if not more to degrade. Second, bans (and discourse around them) like this make people aware of their consumption patterns, which is more likely to stimulate change than the absence of those discussions. As long as people who drink using plastic straws, eat using plastic forks, etc. don't stop with those small first steps but instead continue to cut other wasteful parts of their daily routines out of their diets, it's totally worth that first step. People who get defensive at the idea of these bans (or the absurd reductionist notion that "one person's individual plastic straws don't make a difference" as if that was a relevant or meaningful scale to think about these things at all) are really not being helpful and are missing a great opportunity for some very easy introspection.

But, I also agree with the sentiment here:

Starbucks:
>Bans Plastic Straws
>Still Uses Plastic Cups

Really, all single-use containers should be banned and people should carry around reusuable containers of all types with them wherever they go. It can even be something as simple as an old peanut butter jar in a can coozie. If you don't have a reusable container, and there are no in-house mugs to use, then you can't drink your coffee. I think environmentalist who drinks Iced Coffee out of a plastic cup is a fraud, regardless of whether or not they use straws.

[dead0man]

This article by the (Canadian) National Post's Tristin Hopper is a really good examination of both sides of the argument.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-truth-about-ocean-plastic-why-straw-bans-are-not-the-earth-saving-milestone-you-might-think

indeed, he hammers on the exact same points (ocean plastic isn't coming from the West, straws make up a tiny fraction of a fraction of trash, the ban will probably make things worse) I've been hammering on.  Except that the straw stats are almost certainly bull sh**t bit, I didn't want to get into that aspect of it as I thought it might derail the thread.

[Dr. MB]

FBs. Generally I'd be opposed to this, but I don't use straws, probably haven't since I was extremely young, and it's annoying to be given one every damn time I go to a restaurant, when I never want one.

[dead0man]

FBs. Generally I'd be opposed to this, but I don't use straws, probably haven't since I was extremely young

how very BRTD of you



meanwhile, in SF....

You must be logged in to read this quote.

now that'f funny, I don't care who you are.  (except for people that work for Boba Guys)

[Coolface Sock #42069]

More nanny state garbage.

[Hammy]

It seems like another one of those things people do when they openly recognize a problem (in this case litter), but don't want to actively solve it (getting involved in beach cleanup, paying a bit more in taxes for recycling, etc), so they support nonsensical things like this so they can pat themselves on the back and say they made a difference without actually doing anything of substance.

[Sir Mohamed]

Honestly, I would support a ban. I mean, we can't just complain, we also have to do something about the environment and keep it clean. The same reason I supported the 2014 plastic bag ban in CA. Each time I see plastic garbage in the Pacific I could cry. The ocean is so beautiful, we must do everything to protect this beauty.

[Figueira]

Have them as an option for people who need them due to disability. On a personal level, if you don't have a legitimate reason to use them, don't take one. Aside from that I don't think this is an issue getting worked up about either way.