Is the Reformation Over?

[Frodo]

I was reading over a Pew survey from last year, and it is striking how much Catholics and Protestants have converged in their beliefs.

Is the Reformation effectively over?  Is there even a reason for it to continue anymore? 

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So basically you're saying that the hundreds of types of Protestants are all going to just decide to reunite with the Catholic Church, and accept all Catholic dogma and the Pope's authority.

Uh, no.

[Blue3]

There's quite a variety among Protestant denominations.

Also, most Protestants still strongly oppose the idea of not only a Pope, but of a clergy, as well as the Catholic idea of saints. Then there's the whole faith/works debate.


Bridging the Catholic/Orthodox great schism would be much easier... and that isn't easy.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I could possibly see the Anglican Communion rejoin the Roman Church, but only if the Papacy adopts a primus inter pares view of itself. The extrabiblical doctrines of Papal supremacy and Papal infallibility are the primary stumbling blocks to full reunification with various Protestant and Eastern Orthodox groups that otherwise would be doctrinally similar enuf to consider full communion.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I could possibly see the Anglican Communion rejoin the Roman Church, but only if the Papacy adopts a primus inter pares view of itself. The extrabiblical doctrines of Papal supremacy and Papal infallibility are the primary stumbling blocks to full reunification with various Protestant and Eastern Orthodox groups that otherwise would be doctrinally similar enuf to consider full communion.

Why would married/gay/female Episcopal priests accept reunification with the Catholic Church?

[Georg Ebner]

We do not exist.

Because the fools are living 200 years ago, the perfect fools are living 300 years ago.

The perfect fools - what includes all those sects with their vulgar variants of pietism - are caught by the de-facto atheism of the "enlightenment". The idiosyncratistic pseudoChristianity of protestantism and catholicism (since Vaticanum II) has been, is, will be dying.

The fools - what means few genii, who have been absolutely isolated so far - have already seen the resurrection of religiosity in the scepticism of DESCARTES, HUME, KANT and in the preChristian paganism of HAMANN, HERDER, HÖLDERLIN, GOETHE, scottish ossianism and german romanticism.

[DC Al Fine]

I could possibly see the Anglican Communion rejoin the Roman Church, but only if the Papacy adopts a primus inter pares view of itself. The extrabiblical doctrines of Papal supremacy and Papal infallibility are the primary stumbling blocks to full reunification with various Protestant and Eastern Orthodox groups that otherwise would be doctrinally similar enuf to consider full communion.

Why would married/gay/female Episcopal priests accept reunification with the Catholic Church?

On the other side of the spectrum, my understanding is that the African Anglicans are rather Evangelical. A merger would have to be limited to a rather narrow spectrum of conservative Anglo-Catholics.

[Torie]

What percentage of rank and file Catholics care about the issues that divide mainline Protestants from Catholics? What percentage of rank and file Catholics agree actually with the Protestant point of view (they don't take saints seriously, including selecting more based on the three miracles test, think Priests should marry, along with gays, birth control is moral and necessary, etc.) Is it fair to say that the divide is more a function of what the top hierarchy believes, rather than what the congregants believe?

On the other hand, how many of either faith really care much about reunion? What is the point, particularly when so many are perfectly willing to switch churches based on other factors, such as what a spouse wants, how much they like the pastor, convenience, and so forth?

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I could possibly see the Anglican Communion rejoin the Roman Church, but only if the Papacy adopts a primus inter pares view of itself. The extrabiblical doctrines of Papal supremacy and Papal infallibility are the primary stumbling blocks to full reunification with various Protestant and Eastern Orthodox groups that otherwise would be doctrinally similar enuf to consider full communion.

Why would married/gay/female Episcopal priests accept reunification with the Catholic Church?

A Roman church that adopts primus inter pares is likely to also have other doctrinal shifts as well.  Also, who says the Episcopal Church will still be part of the Anglican Communion by the time that happens? Or still exist, for that matter, given how it keeps bleeding money and members!

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I was reading over a Pew survey from last year, and it is striking how much Catholics and Protestants have converged in their beliefs.

Is the Reformation effectively over?  Is there even a reason for it to continue anymore? 

My impressions from this Pew article is it shows a few different things:
* there has been a greater meeting of minds of Catholic and Protestant theology on some important issues since the Reformation
* people often don't understand or follow their own religious traditions
* the media/researchers often don't understand these religious traditions


1. Sola fide is pretty much the historic Protestant position here, though the phrasing of the question doesn't reflect the complexity of the issue:  the general idea is that faith if true leads to good works, but it is faith itself that saves. The question of "Get into heaven" I suppose would mean different things to Protestants and Catholics since Protestants don't have Purgatory.   But a lot of people who are Protestants and aren't connected in any real way to the theological tradition of their churches and may just think of going to heaven if you are good or to hell if you are bad.   

There has been significant progress in Catholics and Protestants coming together to reevaluate the extent of differences on this issue:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Declaration_on_the_Doctrine_of_Justification

2. There has been since Protestant's beginnings a division between those who see Scripture as sufficient in itself to guide individual Christians and congregations, and those who see a large role for the authority of the church as an institution and its historic creeds as important guides for interpreting and living out Scripture.  So the split here is nothing new and does not signal Protestants are becoming more like Catholics.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Shock news as laypeople don't understand their own religion! (As has been the case since time immemoriam)

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Of course not, many people believe the Catholic Church and many Churches that reflect the Catholic Church like Lutherism or Presbyterian Churches, that are set up like them or even the Church of England are elitism.  Many people are going about spirituality in a sense of not going to church at all or listening to televangelist on tv. 

However, Churches are places for people to form communities in, and people go there for socializing rather than worshipping only.  The Reformation is alive and well.

[7,052,770]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

Bring them along. The Catholic Church needs them now more than ever!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

Bring them along. The Catholic Church needs them now more than ever!

But the Catholic Church wouldn't accept them. That's the point.

[7,052,770]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

Bring them along. The Catholic Church needs them now more than ever!

But the Catholic Church wouldn't accept them. That's the point.

This is a fantasy thread, not a reality one. We're all just talking about what we want to happen.

[Classic Conservative]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

Bring them along. The Catholic Church needs them now more than ever!

But the Catholic Church wouldn't accept them. That's the point.

And they should never accept them.

[7,052,770]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

Bring them along. The Catholic Church needs them now more than ever!

But the Catholic Church wouldn't accept them. That's the point.

And they should never accept them.

Yes we should.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

Bring them along. The Catholic Church needs them now more than ever!

But the Catholic Church wouldn't accept them. That's the point.

And they should never accept them.

Yes we should.

Why?  Just because civil marriage makes no distinction between between the genders of the partners (which is as it should be) does not mean that a church marriage should make no distinction. There's an important distinction between governmental action and non-governmental actions that those of us on the left often dismiss too readily. Just because non-governmental actions happen in public does not mean that society at large always gets to decide what actions are permissible.

[Kingpoleon]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

Or the Methodist lesbian bishop?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

Bring them along. The Catholic Church needs them now more than ever!

But the Catholic Church wouldn't accept them. That's the point.

This is a fantasy thread, not a reality one. We're all just talking about what we want to happen.

That's not what the OP implies.

[libertpaulian]

I mean yeah what's going to happen to all the female pastors and married ones? And ones that marry gay couples? Etc.

Bring them along. The Catholic Church needs them now more than ever!

But the Catholic Church wouldn't accept them. That's the point.

And they should never accept them.

Yes we should.

Why?  Just because civil marriage makes no distinction between between the genders of the partners (which is as it should be) does not mean that a church marriage should make no distinction. There's an important distinction between governmental action and non-governmental actions that those of us on the left often dismiss too readily. Just because non-governmental actions happen in public does not mean that society at large always gets to decide what actions are permissible.

I think the poster means that the Church morally should accept such people, not that they should be legally compelled.

[J. J.]

I've thought that the Reformation was effectively over by 1600.  Basically, no other Protestant denomination sprung from the Catholic Church after that point.

At some point, I think the Anglican Communion and the Orthodox Churches will be in communion with the Catholic Church. 

[DINGO Joe]

I will fight to the death the issue of transubstantiation vs consubstantiation.  Even if I can't remember which side I'm on.  I personally don't expect the Missouri Synod and the ELCA to ever merge, much less larger churches. 

[Greatest I am]

I was reading over a Pew survey from last year, and it is striking how much Catholics and Protestants have converged in their beliefs.

Is the Reformation effectively over?  Is there even a reason for it to continue anymore? 

I hope it is not over as Christianity has many moral tenets that they do not follow and many poor moral tents that they do follow.

That is why it is still based on a barbaric human sacrifice and a genocidal son murdering god who is somehow good.

Regards
DL