Has a US president ever sided with the enemy, before today?

[HAnnA MArin County]

Russia is not our enemy.

#AlternativeFacts

[GoTfan]

It's getting harder and harder to deny that Russia had some involvement for Republicans, but at the same time, the fact that Democrats are becoming incredibly jingoistic worries me to the point where I think some might vote for a candidate whose main plank is "I'll declare war on Russia."

[Sadader]

It's getting harder and harder to deny that Russia had some involvement for Republicans, but at the same time, the fact that Democrats are becoming incredibly jingoistic worries me to the point where I think some might vote for a candidate whose main plank is "I'll declare war on Russia."

are you real???

[courts]

Obama was good friends with a terrorist sympathizer and went to an anti-American church for 20 years...does this count for anything?

Well, yes, that's true.  Jeremiah Wright is a Walking Abscess; a breathing pool of anti-Jewish Pond Scum that does little to mask his hatred of white Americans, and of America as a nation.  "God DAMN America!"  That's a Jeremiah Wright quote, and it's not taken out of context; it's representative of what he thinks.

But in terms of being a potential harm to me, and to my country, Jeremiah Wright is a mere pimple on the posterior compared to Putin.  Annoying that he may be, Jeremiah Wright isn't armed with nuclear weapons.  And while Vladamir Putin hasn't aimed his weapons at us, he HAS used them in conflicts knowing that his actions opposed our own defined interests (e. g. Syria).

To want better relations with Russia is a good thing.  But not at any price.  And even if, indeed, our intelligence community is to blame for part of our current difficulties in our relations with Russia, Trump actually saying it in a joint statement with Putin represents the part of today's events that was "too much of a price".  He didn't have to say that.  But he did, and that wasn't good at all.

If Trump said it because he "wanted a deal", he ended up looking weak, as if Putin had played him, and I think he's got to know that.  If he said that because of his political difficulties, he made his situation worse.  People don't believe Putin had nothing to do with the hacking, and while there is no evidence that any of this changed the outcome, it's something that Presidents are expected to show outrage over.

Now there are Chicken Littles galore, and I'm not convinced that this is the kind of catastrophe people are making it out to be.  But it looks bad, and that fact makes it bad; perceptions are reality at this level.  I will say this; if REPUBLICANS think this is THAT BAD, they need to resign their offices, and they need to call for Trump's resignation.  Immediately.  Given how much Republicans would love to be rid of Trump, that shouldn't be a big deal to do if this thing is as bad as even some Republicans say it is.

trump did nothing wrong

[Reaganfan]

The overreaction is laughable. Almost every person, with extremely few exceptions, who is "outraged", is already not a fan of President Trump.

John McCain
John Kasich
Rob Portman
Mitt Romney
Nicole Wallace
Anderson Cooper
Jim Acosta
John Brennon
Jeff Flake
Chuck Schumer
David Frum
David French
James Comey
Walter Jones
Will Hurd
Arnold Schwartzenegger

What do these people who are "outraged" have in common? They never liked Trump to begin with. With the exception of Newt Gingrich who was constructively critical, I have yet to hear such negative reactions from those who actually are Trump supporters. Anderson Cooper's objecting reporting at the conclusion of the press conference began with, "Hey folks, this is CNN Live Coverage of one of the most disgraceful performances..." Unbelievable.

We just have to push on and remember, those people outraged never liked him, didn't vote for him, and won't vote for him next time. In other words, these people are electorally dispensable.

[courts]

well yes.never trump people are more annoying than anti-trump democrats

[AtorBoltox]

The overreaction is laughable. Almost every person, with extremely few exceptions, who is "outraged", is already not a fan of President Trump.

John McCain
John Kasich
Rob Portman
Mitt Romney
Nicole Wallace
Anderson Cooper
Jim Acosta
John Brennon
Jeff Flake
Chuck Schumer
David Frum
David French
James Comey
Walter Jones
Will Hurd
Arnold Schwartzenegger

What do these people who are "outraged" have in common? They never liked Trump to begin with. With the exception of Newt Gingrich who was constructively critical, I have yet to hear such negative reactions from those who actually are Trump supporters. Anderson Cooper's objecting reporting at the conclusion of the press conference began with, "Hey folks, this is CNN Live Coverage of one of the most disgraceful performances..." Unbelievable.

We just have to push on and remember, those people outraged never liked him, didn't vote for him, and won't vote for him next time. In other words, these people are electorally dispensable.

Breaking news. Members of cult not outraged at actions of cult leader; non members are

[Reaganfan]

well yes.never trump people are more annoying than anti-trump democrats

My point is that almost every Republican who is outraged beyond belief are the Republicans like Kasich or McCain or Flake or Hurd or the MSNBC "Republicans" who claimed they don't support Trump or didn't vote for him.

Even still, the outrage is a definite overreaction. I don't know what they wanted him to do. If he had refused to shake Putin's hand, they'd be criticizing him. If he punched Putin in the face, they'd be criticizing him. He has a cordial meeting...they criticize him.

If he started a war with North Korea, they'd go crazy. So then he talks to North Korea, and they go crazy. I asked a liberal friend what she wanted him to do about North Korea a few months ago. I laid out several different options, she said no to all of them. Then it struck me...she didn't want Trump to do anything. Her attitude was almost like saying, "Stay right here, but don't touch anything!"

That isn't the way the Presidency works. This isn't about North Korea or Russia, it's about Donald Trump. The Trump derangement syndrome on steroids.

[courts]

i agree with a lot of that.frankly i give trump credit for having a more coherent foreign policy than he did a little over a year ago.i think his worst trait actually has been indecisiveness.perhaps out of laziness, or feeling totally in over his head, i don't know. but i don't really get that sense right now

[UncleSam]

Can someone explain to me why the Atlas hacks have decided that Russia is our mortal enemy and must be purged from existence. It’s kind of ridiculous that they think trying to play nice with Russia is somehow disgraceful when the last guy tried to play nice with most of the Middle East.

There’s no harm to trying to get along with Russia, it’s what we should be doing. Dems are just upset that Russia put up propaganda to hurt them in 2016, if it had been the other way around you think any Dems anywhere would have anything but nice things to say about Putin? Of course not.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Can someone explain to me why the Atlas hacks have decided that Russia is our mortal enemy and must be purged from existence. It’s kind of ridiculous that they think trying to play nice with Russia is somehow disgraceful when the last guy tried to play nice with most of the Middle East.

There’s no harm to trying to get along with Russia, it’s what we should be doing. Dems are just upset that Russia put up propaganda to hurt them in 2016, if it had been the other way around you think any Dems anywhere would have anything but nice things to say about Putin? Of course not.

[twenty42]

well yes.never trump people are more annoying than anti-trump democrats

My point is that almost every Republican who is outraged beyond belief are the Republicans like Kasich or McCain or Flake or Hurd or the MSNBC "Republicans" who claimed they don't support Trump or didn't vote for him.

Even still, the outrage is a definite overreaction. I don't know what they wanted him to do. If he had refused to shake Putin's hand, they'd be criticizing him. If he punched Putin in the face, they'd be criticizing him. He has a cordial meeting...they criticize him.

If he started a war with North Korea, they'd go crazy. So then he talks to North Korea, and they go crazy. I asked a liberal friend what she wanted him to do about North Korea a few months ago. I laid out several different options, she said no to all of them. Then it struck me...she didn't want Trump to do anything. Her attitude was almost like saying, "Stay right here, but don't touch anything!"

That isn't the way the Presidency works. This isn't about North Korea or Russia, it's about Donald Trump. The Trump derangement syndrome on steroids.

This is the problem in a nutshell. I happen to agree with Newt that Trump stumbled badly on Monday and made a pretty big mistake in some of the words he chose. But I also believe that the never-ending criticism of Trump from Democrats, NeverTrump Republicans, and the MSM has sort of reached a point of diminishing returns.

These groups have spent every day since November 9, 2016 criticizing the way Trump breathes, sneezes, and sleeps, which makes their criticisms of Monday come across as typical noise that we are used to hearing every day. The denunciations of the summit from the latter two groups I mentioned would carry much more weight if those groups were less critical of the president in everyday life, but they will be looked upon as normal reactions in today’s political climate.

From the day he was elected, Trump’s foes went all-in on a strategy of universal condemnation and blind criticism of his every action. While this may have kept polarization strong and kept his approval ratings below 50%, it also somewhat robbed them of a chance to take advantage of a true Trump blunder such as what we saw on Monday.

[ON Progressive]

Russia is not a true enemy, as much as democrats and neocons wish it was. A competitor? Yes. An enemy? No.

I have to laugh

Please, tell me exactly how Russia is a direct enemy of the United States.

     It isn't, and the utterly facile nature of the responses here demonstrates that the opposition doesn't have a leg to stand on. Russia is not an enemy of the United States for Constitutional purposes. They are certainly not friends of ours and I am concerned by Trump's dismissal of concerns about them, but that does not make them an enemy.

They're trying to disrupt the most serious political alliance of the last century and they are working actively to undermine the faith of our citizens in our democratic process.

Holy mother of god you people are obtuse. You people are getting played so ing hard by the Russians. They know that half of the country would be too busy playing red vs. blue to take a well-concealed threat from them seriously and they're going to be able to do whatever they want as long as Trump is in charge and people like the blue avatars on this board enable him. They have you people hook, line and sinker.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I love Special K's complete lack of any sense of history as well as self-indignant conviction that U.S. politics was some sphere of a special virtue that only the coming of Trump destroyed.

[mvd10]

I mean, it's pretty obvious that Russia atleast is very unfriendly to the US and the broader Western World. But I guess most American blue avatars would love a white nationstate where domestic violence against women is allowed and an unholy alliance between the Church and some corporatist oligarchs dominates politics amirite? Bonus points if the leader is a dictator who locks up journalists! Damn, that almost sounds like Erdogan too .

Sadly Russia isn't really your average Trump cultist's dream state as they're one of the world leaders in female business leaders (muh evul feminists don't know their place!) and Putin still ships billions of dollars to backwards Muslims.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Anyway, it's pretty hard to clearly define what "treason" and "enemy" are. Article 3, Section III of the Constitution states:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Now, I've never been a fan of "muh framers' intent", but I'd bet that by "enemy" they meant country that it at war with the U.S. of possibly some rebels. For all Russia has done, they doesn't meet the definition at this moment. If we were to consider unethical, covert operations conducted by countries in peacetime, the entire world would be at "war" now, with the U.S. being a prominent aggressor as well.

Trump is clearly acting against U.S. national interest, but calling him a traitor makes no more sense than callling GWB a traitor because his idiotic action also seriously damaged the actual U.S. interests.

[Crumpets]

Just because I spend a lot of time at work having to parse words very specifically on how to describe our relationship with global actors, I do think calling Russia an enemy is too strong, simply because we are not actively engaged in a direct war with one another (no, Syria doesn't count). The best ways to describe Russia would be as an adversary in general discussions, and the Putin regime specifically as "hostile."

And not to go all Kissinger, but it's very hard to create a global system where two countries in the position of the US and Russia aren't adversarial in some way. It's not because it's a good vs. evil struggle, although Putin can sometimes make it feel that way. At the same time, we also have an adversarial relationship with China. The difference is that Xi is not a hostile leader the way Putin is, although granted, I know less about the Xi administration, so he probably does done hostile things now and then just as we do.

[Karpatsky]

Russia is not our enemy.

>reagan fan

wonder what Reagan would have thought about all this invading your neighbors and undermining NATO business.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

ITT: People who think that the USSR wasn't an "enemy" of the United States because the US never had boots on the ground there, apparently.

[Landslide Lyndon]

LOL at people taking so long to understand that Naso doesn't give a rat's ass about America and is just an extremist hack.

[RINO Tom]

well yes.never trump people are more annoying than anti-trump democrats

My point is that almost every Republican who is outraged beyond belief are the Republicans like Kasich or McCain or Flake or Hurd or the MSNBC "Republicans" who claimed they don't support Trump or didn't vote for him.

Even still, the outrage is a definite overreaction. I don't know what they wanted him to do. If he had refused to shake Putin's hand, they'd be criticizing him. If he punched Putin in the face, they'd be criticizing him. He has a cordial meeting...they criticize him.

If he started a war with North Korea, they'd go crazy. So then he talks to North Korea, and they go crazy. I asked a liberal friend what she wanted him to do about North Korea a few months ago. I laid out several different options, she said no to all of them. Then it struck me...she didn't want Trump to do anything. Her attitude was almost like saying, "Stay right here, but don't touch anything!"

That isn't the way the Presidency works. This isn't about North Korea or Russia, it's about Donald Trump. The Trump derangement syndrome on steroids.

SO WHAT?  Lol. 

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Can someone explain to me why the Atlas hacks have decided that Russia is our mortal enemy and must be purged from existence. It’s kind of ridiculous that they think trying to play nice with Russia is somehow disgraceful when the last guy tried to play nice with most of the Middle East.

There’s no harm to trying to get along with Russia, it’s what we should be doing. Dems are just upset that Russia put up propaganda to hurt them in 2016, if it had been the other way around you think any Dems anywhere would have anything but nice things to say about Putin? Of course not.

That's quite the fantasy world you are living in.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The overreaction is laughable. Almost every person, with extremely few exceptions, who is "outraged", is already not a fan of President Trump.

This is the problem in a nutshell. I happen to agree with Newt that Trump stumbled badly on Monday and made a pretty big mistake in some of the words he chose. But I also believe that the never-ending criticism of Trump from Democrats, NeverTrump Republicans, and the MSM has sort of reached a point of diminishing returns.

This is the weakest defence of a politician I can imagine. I think you guys should unplug yourselves from what other people think and judge the President on your own terms according to your own judgement, instead of hiding behind "people I don't like are criticising Trump so I have to keep liking him".

[Inmate Trump]

At what point did Republicans become the party weak on foreign policy?  Weak on Russia?

Ronald Reagan is spinning in his grave.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Trump would've been great 100 years ago before tweets and TV.  He could've joked around about the intelligence community that has spent the last two years prosecuting him to get a leverage with a former enemy to accomplish peace, and no one would've saw it - only the result.