Some Nazis hunt random foreigners in Chemnitz, Germany

[palandio]

Well that's sad but unsurprising,
The left hardly ever make the positive case for immigration, the benefits and positive contribution immigrants offer,
while the far right been generalising and scapegoating immigration for the ills of society, many untruths sprouted by the right, left unchallenged by the left.
Hence the public is anxious about immigrants and immigration,

In England places with lowest level of migration tend to be the areas most skeptical about migration, while areas with highest level of migration tend to have positive views toward immigrants, unfortunately it's the fear of the other and the unknown, and false perceptions whats causing this...

Until the political establishment particularly the left start to make the positive case for immigration and spell the economic and social benefits migrants contribute to the country, nothing will change and people will remain sceptical about migration.

I genuinely think Merkel meant well when she invited the refugees, however lack of preparation and high number of people crossing the Mediterranean was overwhelming, and the failure to have a united front all didn't go well...

Oh, the positive case has been made.

The thing is that when something like a fatal knife-stabbing occurs and unsurprisingly the two perpetrators are young Arab men, the positive case for the immigration of exactly these two people is hard to make. Immigration can have both positive and negative effects, sometimes the effects are mostly very negative. Of course there might be solutions to the problem that go beyond "don't let them in" or "throw them out", i.e. better integration, assimilation, cultural re-education and economic perspectives for young Arab men, but that's where the discussion begins.

[Zinneke]

Well, I told you 3 years ago already that this would happen eventually ... but Merkel thought otherwise.

I understand there may arguments against the open borders policy or at least the way it's being conducted, but "it may make our own fascists angry" is a deplorable one.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding Tender's use of the dog whistle here, he has no problem with 800 natives committing crimes, the real issue is the 1 migrant and how the people from his background should be punished collectively.

Surprised to not see more R-xx avatars like DC Al Fine that usually pounce upon the first muslim that commits a crime to say that the streets are not safe. Here you have literally a pack of thugs hunting down innocent people...oh wait here he is encouraging it :

An incredibly sad story. I have to say that I was skeptical at first, but now it has been revealed that the mayor of The Hague, Pauline Krikke, knew about Dille's story, as did the police. Dille's video with subtitles can be viewed here. If this really happened, this country is sick.

Honestly I'm surprised similar scandals (eg Rotherham) haven't caused mass riots. The police not doing their jobs because they're worried that arresting rapists might create anti-immigrant sentiment is a big effort into deal. It's outrageous.

Look dude, if you don't want to understand what I wrote that's not my problem. There's a difference between being surprised there aren't riots and wanting them to happen.

Even if we are to give you the benefit of the doubt, its the exact rhetoric so prelavent now is Western society that leads to actions like these. Actions that have undermined the rule of law in our cities as much as the Sharia4XX crowd. Thus, if Merkel has blood on her hands for her naive, erratic, if inevitable, acceptance of several hundred thousand migrants  - the politically engaged hyenas who type furiously from far away lands about "occupation" and a need for "popular uprising" or rioting have as much blood on theirs.

[Tender Branson]

Well, I told you 3 years ago already that this would happen eventually ... but Merkel thought otherwise.

I understand there may arguments against the open borders policy or at least the way it's being conducted, but "it may make our own fascists angry" is a deplorable one.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding Tender's use of the dog whistle here, he has no problem with 800 natives committing crimes, the real issue is the 1 migrant and how the people from his background should be punished collectively.

Stop posting false interpretations. I certainly have a problem with "800 natives" committing crimes, but my concern is more the high share of foreign criminals (and it's rising constantly in recent years). Foreigners make up 40-50% of criminals and the local prison population, but their share in the population is "only" 15%. Of course that's concerning me a bit more than the much lower crime rate by the local population. And importing more young males leads to more foreigner crime. Why would anyone want this ?

[Tender Branson]

Crystal Meth-Nazis crash live RTL reporting in Chemnitz:

https://twitter.com/boulevard_blum/status/1034202758495125507

[Meclazine for Israel]

I did not know the Nazi salute was illegal in Germany.

10 people under investigation from the video apparently.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I did not know the Nazi salute was illegal in Germany.

I thought it was a common knowledge.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Well, I told you 3 years ago already that this would happen eventually ... but Merkel thought otherwise.

I understand there may arguments against the open borders policy or at least the way it's being conducted, but "it may make our own fascists angry" is a deplorable one.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding Tender's use of the dog whistle here, he has no problem with 800 natives committing crimes, the real issue is the 1 migrant and how the people from his background should be punished collectively.

Stop posting false interpretations. I certainly have a problem with "800 natives" committing crimes, but my concern is more the high share of foreign criminals (and it's rising constantly in recent years). Foreigners make up 40-50% of criminals and the local prison population, but their share in the population is "only" 15%. Of course that's concerning me a bit more than the much lower crime rate by the local population. And importing more young males leads to more foreigner crime. Why would anyone want this ?

No one disputes there's a problem, but I'm concerned about taking one-sided view, as a dangerous slippery stone. Because we can say the same things about Latinos in America. The percentage of Hispanics held in U.S. prisons is also higher than their share of general population, but I don't see many people on the Atlas, aside of few usual suspects, who would subscribe to Trumpesque "some, I assume, are good people, but..."

I'm gravely concerned about this line of thinking. Higher crime rate among the refugee population should be addressed, but should not be used to lay the blame on the entire group, or employ the collective responsibility. "Let's deport the lot of them/close the borders for everybody until we figure out what is going on" is punishing people who have nothing in common with the criminals aside of their ethnic and religious origins.

I do not pretend to have ready answers, but the above is not an answer either. I think both sides of this argument can at least agree, albeit from diffrent reasons, the policy was executed poorly. But if there's, let's say, one criminal per eight authentic asylum seekers, the latter seven shouldn't suffer because of it.

[Zinneke]

Well, I told you 3 years ago already that this would happen eventually ... but Merkel thought otherwise.

I understand there may arguments against the open borders policy or at least the way it's being conducted, but "it may make our own fascists angry" is a deplorable one.

You're fundamentally misunderstanding Tender's use of the dog whistle here, he has no problem with 800 natives committing crimes, the real issue is the 1 migrant and how the people from his background should be punished collectively.

Stop posting false interpretations. I certainly have a problem with "800 natives" committing crimes, but my concern is more the high share of foreign criminals (and it's rising constantly in recent years). Foreigners make up 40-50% of criminals and the local prison population, but their share in the population is "only" 15%. Of course that's concerning me a bit more than the much lower crime rate by the local population. And importing more young males leads to more foreigner crime. Why would anyone want this ?

You wanna play ball with (unsourced) statistics, but, for example, how many middle class white drug dealers are arrested vs Morroccan street dealers? Can you provide an explanation for that?

Eventually if the narrative of immigrant more likely to be a criminal, which is what you are suggesting, there will be confirmation bias.

I'd prefer we judge people as individuals though, because thats what our entire legal acquis is based on.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Literally the one thing I know about Chemnitz is that used to be called Karl-Marx-Stadt back in the GDR days...

Anyway, this is disturbing as anything.

They have a great fossilised forest in Chemnitz.

[Silent Hunter]

Literally the one thing I know about Chemnitz is that used to be called Karl-Marx-Stadt back in the GDR days...

Anyway, this is disturbing as anything.

They have a great fossilised forest in Chemnitz.

That's an interesting designation for Nazis. ;-)

[dead0man]

I do not pretend to have ready answers, but the above is not an answer either. I think both sides of this argument can at least agree, albeit from diffrent reasons, the policy was executed poorly.

maybe it's time to stop listening to the people who executed poorly and and start listening to the people that warned that it was being executed poorly?  How many times should we get burned by the people who "executed poorly" on the same issue?



Also, it's fun to watch as  the refugee issue turns collectivists into individualists...which is good, I just wish it wasn't such a temporary condition.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Also, it's fun to watch as  the refugee issue turns collectivists into individualists...which is good, I just wish it wasn't such a temporary condition.

Nice strawman here, man. You never dissapoint.

[dead0man]

weird that you quoted my throwaway line and not the part that actually commented on your post....also, I'm pretty sure that's not what a strawman is.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

From my vantage point, the EU has moved on from any rhetorical and practical interest in "open borders" and are (rightly or wrongly) doubling down on fortress europe/the turkey  deal. The main dispute at present is to what degree deportations should be carried out anf whether countries like Afghanistan truly count as "safe" countries, but almost all governments (including those reliant on far left and green parties) seem to be participating in prudent deportations.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Crystal Meth-Nazis crash live RTL reporting in Chemnitz:

https://twitter.com/boulevard_blum/status/1034202758495125507

Jan Timke, federal policeman and member of the Bremen state parliament for the right-wing party Bürger in Wut ("citizens in a rage") illegally published the arrest warrant of an Iraqi asylee, which is a criminal offense in Germany. The warrant contains the murderer's full name and address, the name of the judge and witnesses and the number of knife stabs the Iraqi conflicted on his victim.
Timke received the document from a judicial officer who works in Dresden, and it went viral via social media accounts of right-wing organizations.

[Tender Branson]

Btw, Chemnitz is the European city with the highest Crystal Meth concentration in its municipal sewage water system, out of 56 European cities surveyed:

240 milligrams per 1.000 persons and day.

For comparison, Innsbruck (an Austrian city), had a rate of 2.9 milligrams in 2017 in the same study. Berlin was at 15 mg.

https://www.freiepresse.de/chemnitz/chemnitz-hat-europaweit-das-meiste-crystal-im-abwasser-artikel10151227

http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/system/files/publications/2757/POD_Wastewater%20analysis.pdf

[DavidB.]

The state's first and foremost duty is to protect its citizens. The German state has failed to do so in the most fundamental way. This creates vigilantism. Either the state gets its act together or citizens will start protecting themselves - the former, of course, would be the preferable option.

[Tender Branson]

On Saturday, a huge "commemoration march" for the German victim who got killed by the illegal Arab immigrants is planned in the city - organized by the AfD, Pegida and Pro Chemnitz.

Maybe there will be even more than the 5.000 right-wingers/Nazis on Monday and Tuesday.

There will also be a massive counter-protest by the Left and the Civil Society, called "Chemnitz Nazi-free", incl. many popular bands, actors and artists.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I'd argue domestic-grown Neonazis and other militant far-right circles pose bigger domestic threat than criminals among refugees. True, they're benefiting from mistakes made in implementing government refugee policies, mistakes that should be corrected asap (I'm referring to the lack of proper processing, that would allow genuine people in distress to claim one of the fundamental human rights, the right of asylum), to prevent the ordinary people from being influenced by the neonazi propaganda. But we should be really, really careful not to actually cave in to the far right, to avoid the vicious circle that pretty much says "well, we don't like their methods, but they do make some good points", nor to punish the entire refugee community etc. as part of such short term "damage control", because this is what will make the bastards even stronger and more dangerous in long term.

Attempts to accomodate or appease the Nazis never worked.

[palandio]

The asylum application of the arrested Iraqi had already been rejected and he was to be deported to Bulgaria in 2016.

And he has multiple priors for drugs, fraud, malicious mischief and dangerous interference into street traffic. Plus a suspended eight month sentence for aggravated assault (he is still on parole, the victims were other asylum seekers, by the way).

So once again we're not talking about the average asylum seeker, but about a known criminal who could have been treated appropriately, but wasn't.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

There will also be a massive counter-protest by the Left and the Civil Society, called "Chemnitz Nazi-free", incl. many popular bands, actors and artists.

... including the neoliberal, Merkel-loving "punk" Campino ...

[fluffypanther19]

Correction: Merkel overburdened neo-Nazis beyond their point of tolerance of foreigners. That is an extremely low threshold, and policy cannot be subjugated to the preferences of Nazis.

Nobody is saying the government should follow the preferences of Nazis. However, it is observable that it has helped contribute to the rise of Neo-Nazis which is creating more violence.

Reason #82983 why Merkel's immigration policy was a bad idea.

Agreed. I think Merkel did it with good intensions, but it created too much problems after all.

[EPG]

Whatever. How many of these refugees' excess deaths are worth the comfort of Herr Mueller seeing fewer brown youths on the street?

Maybe twenty thousand would have been too many excess deaths? Anyone willing to choose a number?

[Tender Branson]

Whatever. How many of these refugees' excess deaths are worth the comfort of Herr Mueller seeing fewer brown youths on the street?

Maybe twenty thousand would have been too many excess deaths? Anyone willing to choose a number?

Fact is that there has been a pile of so-called "unique cases" recently, in which Arab/African immigrants (mostly illegals, with their asylum claims already rejected or with previous crimes) have killed or raped German citizens. These cases are in the hundreds of thousands by now.

Of course the Germans are getting annoyed, now that they are being hunted and killed in the streets. And some are opting for the "eye-for-an-eye" option because of Merkel's failures.

Most people simply do not wanna act like the ultra-leftists any longer and tolerate all of these imported crimes.

Anyway: police are expecting up to 20.000 people in Chemnitz today for another round of protests, called for by the AfD (from 3 states), Pegida and Pro-Chemnitz - as well as leftist groups. This could get nasty.

[Zinneke]

Whatever. How many of these refugees' excess deaths are worth the comfort of Herr Mueller seeing fewer brown youths on the street?

Maybe twenty thousand would have been too many excess deaths? Anyone willing to choose a number?

Fact is that there has been a pile of so-called "unique cases" recently, in which Arab/African immigrants (mostly illegals, with their asylum claims already rejected or with previous crimes) have killed or raped German citizens. These cases are in the hundreds of thousands by now.

Of course the Germans are getting annoyed, now that they are being hunted and killed in the streets. And some are opting for the "eye-for-an-eye" option because of Merkel's failures.

Most people simply do not wanna act like the ultra-leftists any longer and tolerate all of these imported crimes.

Anyway: police are expecting up to 20.000 people in Chemnitz today for another round of protests, called for by the AfD (from 3 states), Pegida and Pro-Chemnitz - as well as leftist groups. This could get nasty.

source on the hundreds of thousands claim?

Do you also understand why vigilantism is illegal in our societies?