Some Nazis hunt random foreigners in Chemnitz, Germany

[palandio]

[...]

I'm generally not a friend of empty quotes and I don't always agree with you, coloniac, but I wanted to post something and before it was possible for me to post something, you had already written up basically all of what I wanted to say.

Regarding the concert, it is true that the initiating band Kraftklub, who are from Chemnitz, has never made a secret of their left-wing sympathies, but they are far away from extremism. Feine Sahne Fischfilet has been under surveillance for calling for violence against the police in the past. They probably are far-left. K.I.Z. are very provocative and clearly left-wing, if you don't understand their irony you might call them sexist and anti-white racist. Die Toten Hosen would strongly object to what I'm saying about them, but they are comfortable mainstream nowadays. Finally Marteria and Casper are quite inoffensive and barely political, as far as I know.

[parochial boy]

And tbh, I'm kind of sick of this narrative that Europeans are all inveterate xenophobes when it was the Americans who elected Donald Trump. Parties like SD, of AfD, or the UDC are polling in the teens or twenties, and those are in countries that all have higher rates of immigration than the US does.

Germany and Austria have pretty much the same percentage of it's population as immigrants compared to America (14.9-Ger, 15.2-Aus and 14.3-US) and every other country in Europe (that counts) is lower than America.  cite

granted, Mexican immigrants NEVER blow sh**t up or drive a truck through a crowd and rarely rape your little sister and also, we let them work and don't round them up into cages. (well, maybe a little)

The US had 1.2million migrants in 2016, (fluctuating 1-1.2m per year over the course of the century). Whereas the UK has been getting as many as 600k per year, and Germany took in over 1 million in 2015 at the height of the migrant crisis. So in the last few years, certainly when this became a hot button issue, immigration was relatively higher in Western Europe. (Also, I'm mildly offended by the implication that Switzerland doesn't count?).

And bear in mind that the immigration to the US is , in this day an aged, increasingly limited to the wealthy and well educated - which is not the sort of immigration that lots of European countries have been having. And even before you talk about "cultural proximity" (or racist jibes about arabs), it is much easier for a society to accept/integrate university educated professionals - which is why Switzerland doesn't have neonazis running on the streets, despite having twice the levels of immigration that the US, UK or Germany do.

[dead0man]

And tbh, I'm kind of sick of this narrative that Europeans are all inveterate xenophobes when it was the Americans who elected Donald Trump. Parties like SD, of AfD, or the UDC are polling in the teens or twenties, and those are in countries that all have higher rates of immigration than the US does.

Germany and Austria have pretty much the same percentage of it's population as immigrants compared to America (14.9-Ger, 15.2-Aus and 14.3-US) and every other country in Europe (that counts) is lower than America.  cite

granted, Mexican immigrants NEVER blow sh**t up or drive a truck through a crowd and rarely rape your little sister and also, we let them work and don't round them up into cages. (well, maybe a little)

The US had 1.2million migrants in 2016, (fluctuating 1-1.2m per year over the course of the century). Whereas the UK has been getting as many as 600k per year, and Germany took in over 1 million in 2015 at the height of the migrant crisis. So in the last few years, certainly when this became a hot button issue, immigration was relatively higher in Western Europe. (Also, I'm mildly offended by the implication that Switzerland doesn't count?).

that was honestly accidental....funny though!

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most immigrants to America are low educated Hispanics.  Yes, most of our non Hispanic immigration is of the type you speak, but they make up a relatively small percentage of our immigrants.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

What exactly is wrong with the concept of anti-fascism as a political idea? I disagree with a lot of the methods of the Alerta Network (as it sometimes comes close to the topic), and I don't like the holier-than-thou liberal-left that sometimes inhabits it, but I don't see how it can be in any way put on the same level as the far right.

The Antifa is not against fascism, they are as fascist as the SS.

In my 30 years of life, I myself nor someone who I know has ever had problems with right-wing facists, only with left-wing-fascists. I even know several people who studied in Bremen or Berlin and have moved to East Germany because they were threatened by Muslim street gangsters or left-wing terrorists.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

This was Hamburg during last year's G20 summit, when the left-wing extremist Antifa held the reins of the city tightly. Some of them even tried to murder policemen by throwing concrete slab from buildings onto them.

👽INDEPENDENCE DAY HAS BECOME REAL👾

Don't get me wrong: I despise neo-Nazis and I'm not fond of their marches, but never have such war scenes been initiated by right-wing extremists after WWII, only by left-wing extremists.
I am just sick of tired of constantly hearing that the Antifa is the "morally superior" extremists; they are just as disgusting and aggressive and anti-democratic as their right-wing brethren.

[Zinneke]

This was Hamburg during last year's G20 summit, when the left-wing extremist Antifa held the reins of the city tightly. Some of them even tried to murder policemen by throwing concrete slab from buildings onto them.

👽INDEPENDENCE DAY HAS BECOME REAL👾

Not condoning the Hamburg riots. You've missed the point, haven't you? I should have phrased it better but one of my reservation with antifa is precisely their disregard for the rule of law in favour of some warped belief that their mass action constitutes the will of the people. It does not, however, make them worse than the SS.

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How are lynch mobs attacking migrants for what they are rather than what they have done not reminiscent of pre-War Germany?

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No, they really are not, when you take into account what the objectives of both parties are. That's the level of analysis I am looking at. You're looking at personal anecdotes, and thinking your own perceptions are an accurate depiction of reality. You can cite Hamburg, but can you cite a single left-wing Anders Breivik since Baader-Meinhof? I can use individual cases to back up my close minded perceptions too : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43316735

The modern far right in Europe are a much greater threat than the far left. Both on the streets and in the higher political arena. While the former is admittedly difficult to argue (because its hard if your cousins mother had a bad experience in Berlin and the media won't report on it because conspiracy!), the latter can be seen by how the far right are slowly regaining ground in our insitutions and undermining them, and our sovereignty in favour of their foreign sponsors.




Tender Branson still hasn't provided a single source detailing directly that refugees have committed hundreds of thousands of crimes, or that hundreds of thousands of refugees have committed crimes. What is keeping you Tender, I thought you were keeping a detailed account of crime on our continent.

[Proto]

Agreed. I think Merkel did it with good intensions, but it created too much problems after all.

C'est pire qu'un crime, c'est une faute. Merkel actually played along with fascists.

[Tender Branson]

Tender Branson still hasn't provided a single source detailing directly that refugees have committed hundreds of thousands of crimes, or that hundreds of thousands of refugees have committed crimes. What is keeping you Tender, I thought you were keeping a detailed account of crime on our continent.

I have posted the link to the German crime statistics.

There you can see the following:

Foreign crime suspects

2017: 736.265 (35% of all criminals)
2016: 953.744 (40% of all criminals)
2015: 911.864 (39% of all criminals)
2014: 617.392 (29% of all criminals)
2013: 538.449 (26% of all criminals)
2012: 502.390 (24% of all criminals)

2017/2016 data:

https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2017/pks2017Jahrbuch3TV.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2

2015/2014 data:

https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2015/pks2015Jahrbuch.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=8

2013/2012 data:

https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2013/pks2013Jahrbuch.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=1

As you can see, while the number of foreign criminals has risen steadily over the past years, there has been a significant additional jump after the 2015 migrant invasion - leading to about 300.000 additional cases committed by foreigners in 2015 and 2016 each.

The number dropped back a bit in 2017, because many probably have left Germany again, were deported or simply because the number of newly arrived dropped.

But still, my point remains: the migrant swamp in 2015 led to many additional crimes in the hundreds of thousands.

[palandio]

As far as I know a part of the 2015/2016 peak can be explained by crimes related to the act of illegal immigration itself. But yes, there has been a significant increase for certain other categories of crime as well.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

How are lynch mobs attacking migrants for what they are rather than what they have done not reminiscent of pre-War Germany?

There was no - I repeat - no neo-Nazi lynch mob at the Chemnitz protests.
The attorney-generalship of Saxony got that straight today!

[President Johnson]

As far as I know a part of the 2015/2016 peak can be explained by crimes related to the act of illegal immigration itself. But yes, there has been a significant increase for certain other categories of crime as well.

This. Especially bank fraud and other financial crimes.

[Beezer]

So the Saxon state premier has come out and said there was no lynch mob that was just hunting down random foreigners...

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Es-gab-keine-Hetzjagd-keinen-Mob-article20607961.html

[Tender Branson]

Thread title adjusted because of Beezer's post.

[Tender Branson]

https://twitter.com/GeorgiGotev/status/1037210083497848835?s=19

^^ just a perfect example of how the far right are setting the agenda, this would've've been said by Front National or UKIP here in the UK...

French foreign Minister (Jean-Yves Le Drian) was a member of  socialist party until last year...
If the left thinks you can neutralise the far right by using their language they're wrong, they are normalising them ...

There should indeed be a phase-out for money transfers from wealthy EU countries to Eastern Europe, but their tough position on immigration is not the reason IMO.

The gradual phase-out is about time, because Poland etc. are growing rather fast right now and have already "got on their own feet" after the collapse of the Warsaw Pact some 30 years ago. No need to subsidize them further right now. They can do so alone.

It would be better is all the money that is saved would be put into a really tough and effective border patrol on the EU's South and South-East. Some sort of European ICE. There need to be 100.000 or so border agents stationed there and proper equipment to keep the illegals out and to transport them immediately back to Africa when caught.

[Tender Branson]

Helene Fischer:

"Nazi-less through the night."

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/kultur/helene-fischer-chemnitz-1.4117608

[Zinneke]

Tender Branson still hasn't provided a single source detailing directly that refugees have committed hundreds of thousands of crimes, or that hundreds of thousands of refugees have committed crimes. What is keeping you Tender, I thought you were keeping a detailed account of crime on our continent.

I have posted the link to the German crime statistics.

There you can see the following:

Foreign crime suspects

2017: 736.265 (35% of all criminals)
2016: 953.744 (40% of all criminals)
2015: 911.864 (39% of all criminals)
2014: 617.392 (29% of all criminals)
2013: 538.449 (26% of all criminals)
2012: 502.390 (24% of all criminals)

2017/2016 data:

https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2017/pks2017Jahrbuch3TV.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2

2015/2014 data:

https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2015/pks2015Jahrbuch.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=8

2013/2012 data:

https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Publikationen/PolizeilicheKriminalstatistik/2013/pks2013Jahrbuch.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=1

As you can see, while the number of foreign criminals has risen steadily over the past years, there has been a significant additional jump after the 2015 migrant invasion - leading to about 300.000 additional cases committed by foreigners in 2015 and 2016 each.

The number dropped back a bit in 2017, because many probably have left Germany again, were deported or simply because the number of newly arrived dropped.

But still, my point remains: the migrant swamp in 2015 led to many additional crimes in the hundreds of thousands.

Thank you Tender.

I would still make some points :

1. The subject is refugees. The concerned citizens movement hold up banners with "rapefugees not welcome". Illegal migration is a different issue. The seperation needs to be clearer.

2. The insinuation you made was that refugees committed hundreds of thousands of violent crime.  Can you prove this?

3. If Austrians were forced to leave their country, would you enjoy being judged and deported based on crimes committed by other Austrians in your host country?

[Beezer]

Now the head of Germany's Office for the Protection of the Constitution also claims there were no "hunts", arguing that this was an example of "deliberate misinformation" by the media to shift attention away from the murder that set all of this off.

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/maassen-chemnitz-103.html

[palandio]

During one of the demonstrations on Sunday, August 27, there seems to have occurred an attack on a Jewish restaurant in Chemnitz, involving circa 12 perpetrators, probably far-right extremists.

[EPG]

During one of the demonstrations on Sunday, August 27, there seems to have occurred an attack on a Jewish restaurant in Chemnitz, involving circa 12 perpetrators, probably far-right extremists.

Nobody cares when it is the far-right doing it.

[Beezer]

Yeah, we hardly ever hear anything about far right crimes in Germany...

BTW, apparently 2 Afghans killed a German in another east German town: https://www.bild.de/regional/sachsen-anhalt/sachsen-anhalt-news/zwei-tatverdaechtige-festgenommen-deutscher-bei-streit-mit-auslaendern-getoetet-57148804.bild.html