Would Jesus condemn or condone Yahweh for his crimes against humanity?

[Greatest I am]

Would Jesus condemn or condone Yahweh for his crimes against humanity?

I see more than one Jesus speaking through the bible. The good Jesus would likely condemn while the less moral and good Jesus that most follow might not. A number of his policies have been found wanting, --- in moral terms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfGRN4HVrQ

Dogma says that Jesus ascended to heaven and his rightful place as judge of the universe at Yahweh’s right hand. The pure hand says tradition.

Would Jesus dethrone Yahweh for the insane genocidal example he shows for a god, or would Jesus somehow justify what Yahweh, and himself to Trinitarians, did?

Would Jesus say that genocide was good?

Heaven forbid.

Condemn or Condone?

I say Jesus would condemn Yahweh.

What say you my moral friends?

https://vimeo.com/7038401

Regards
DL
   

[Mopsus]

Jesus would condemn you for not reciprocating your father's love.

[NewYorkExpress]

Would you condemn your father for slaying the Sodomites?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Jesus, Jehovah and Yahweh are the samething, due to the fact, the chosen ones can't eat pork, clearly stated by Moses and the chosen ones were Hebrews, the ancestors of the first Caucasian man.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

John 3:17 (not a typo)

[MAINEiac4434]

Catholics would say that Jesus wouldn't condemn himself, as God (Yahweh) is simultaneously God The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Jesus, Jehovah and Yahweh are the samething, due to the fact, the chosen ones can't eat pork, clearly stated by Moses and the chosen ones were Hebrews, the ancestors of the first Caucasian man.

Different branches of Noah's family tree: The Hebrews are descendants of Noah's son Shem (hence Semites) along with the Arabs, Syrians and various other Middle Eastern peoples. Those from in Caucasus and Europe were descended from Shem's bro Japheth.  Brother Ham's descendants populated Africa and parts of the Eastern Mediterranean.

Jesus and Yahweh are the same God, yes, though I'm confused about how pork plays into this?

[Greatest I am]

Would you condemn your father for slaying the Sodomites?

Yes, if like god, he could cure as well as kill.

If you would not, then you show how your beliefs have corrupted your moral sense.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Jesus, Jehovah and Yahweh are the samething, due to the fact, the chosen ones can't eat pork, clearly stated by Moses and the chosen ones were Hebrews, the ancestors of the first Caucasian man.

Mine is a moral question, not the history of mythological constructs.

Do you have a moral judgement?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

John 3:17 (not a typo)

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

There goes your salvation.

That aside, it would take quite the fool to think god would condemn you then turn around and die for you.

If you were the one who condemned, would you be as stupid as him and die to forgive instead of just forgiving outright?

Regards
DL

[Greatest I am]

Catholics would say that Jesus wouldn't condemn himself, as God (Yahweh) is simultaneously God The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

So you do not think a Catholic Jesus would give a fair judgement. Ok.

BTW. Most protestants also believe in the stupid trinity concept.

Regards
DL

[136or142]

I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkin's hectoring and polemic style, but I find it hard to dispute much of anything here:  https://www.richarddawkins.net/2014/03/gods-psychological-profile/

The first time I read the Old Testament (up to Psalm 119, or whichever the really long psalm is) I was shocked at how 'bad' God was.  What I find most interesting is the claim that God is 'perfect.'  I don't recall any old Testament description of God as 'perfect' so I wonder what the definition of 'perfect' was at the time.  God 'himself' refers to 'himself' as both 'jealous' and 'vengeful' not normally the sorts the sorts of things associated with modern ideas of a perfect being.

Outside of Dawkin's psychological profile of God, I have wondered who does God most remind me of.  If we accept that God was the creator of the universe, the earth and set the motion in play through evolution for humanity (and I personally believe these things) but leave out the idea that God is 'perfect' God basically comes across as the stereotype of the temperamental artist/creator. 

[Mopsus]

I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkin's hectoring and polemic style, but I find it hard to dispute much of anything here:  https://www.richarddawkins.net/2014/03/gods-psychological-profile/

The first time I read the Old Testament (up to Psalm 119, or whichever the really long psalm is) I was shocked at how 'bad' God was.  What I find most interesting is the claim that God is 'perfect.'  I don't recall any old Testament description of God as 'perfect' so I wonder what the definition of 'perfect' was at the time.  God 'himself' refers to 'himself' as both 'jealous' and 'vengeful' not normally the sorts the sorts of things associated with modern ideas of a perfect being.

God's character always reflects the character of humanity. Throughout Genesis, God repeatedly tries to show us mercy, only for us to throw it back in His face again and again. In Israel, God attempts to create a nation of priests, but we learn that even if we execute people for thought crimes, we can't force perfection on people from the outside. That lesson learned, God sends us Jesus Christ, to change our hearts, and thus perfect us from the inside out. Even then, people like Greatest I am continue to reject their Father's envoys, likely for unfortunate psychological reasons.

[Greatest I am]

I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkin's hectoring and polemic style, but I find it hard to dispute much of anything here:  https://www.richarddawkins.net/2014/03/gods-psychological-profile/

The first time I read the Old Testament (up to Psalm 119, or whichever the really long psalm is) I was shocked at how 'bad' God was.  What I find most interesting is the claim that God is 'perfect.'  I don't recall any old Testament description of God as 'perfect' so I wonder what the definition of 'perfect' was at the time.  God 'himself' refers to 'himself' as both 'jealous' and 'vengeful' not normally the sorts the sorts of things associated with modern ideas of a perfect being.

Outside of Dawkin's psychological profile of God, I have wondered who does God most remind me of.  If we accept that God was the creator of the universe, the earth and set the motion in play through evolution for humanity (and I personally believe these things) but leave out the idea that God is 'perfect' God basically comes across as the stereotype of the temperamental artist/creator. 

If you are going to believe in some supernatural god, then it would be foolish to not see such an entity as making him or herself perfect and setting the standards he or she wants.

I do not advise that anyone put their brain into dissonance and believe in the supernatural.

Regards
DL

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

That aside, it would take quite the fool to think god would condemn you then turn around and die for you.

Except the condemnation comes not from God but from ourselves.  The crucifixion was necessary not because God required it but because our stiff-necked nature required such an extravagant demonstration of God's love for us to believe in it.

[Greatest I am]

That aside, it would take quite the fool to think god would condemn you then turn around and die for you.

Except the condemnation comes not from God but from ourselves.  The crucifixion was necessary not because God required it but because our stiff-necked nature required such an extravagant demonstration of God's love for us to believe in it.

So you are basically saying that Jesus is not our god and judge and we are our own judges.

Get the scriptures for this strange view as I do not think we judge as black and white as you are suggesting, while ignoring that man does not have the power to create hell.

Regards
DL

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Well, Jesus would know what his Father did makes since in a certain context. (A lot of stuff in the Bible looks awful without a religious context, and God being kind of racist in the OT is just part of it.) (By racist, he did have Jews as the "chosen people" and non-Jews are always bad guys.)

[Greatest I am]

Well, Jesus would know what his Father did makes since in a certain context. (A lot of stuff in the Bible looks awful without a religious context, and God being kind of racist in the OT is just part of it.) (By racist, he did have Jews as the "chosen people" and non-Jews are always bad guys.)

That is a part of why Gnostic Christians have tied equality in god to righteousness in god. We cannot embrace racism as we are Universalists.

I take it you would join Jesus, if he were real, in condemning Yahweh. Yes?

Regards
DL

[136or142]

I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkin's hectoring and polemic style, but I find it hard to dispute much of anything here:  https://www.richarddawkins.net/2014/03/gods-psychological-profile/

The first time I read the Old Testament (up to Psalm 119, or whichever the really long psalm is) I was shocked at how 'bad' God was.  What I find most interesting is the claim that God is 'perfect.'  I don't recall any old Testament description of God as 'perfect' so I wonder what the definition of 'perfect' was at the time.  God 'himself' refers to 'himself' as both 'jealous' and 'vengeful' not normally the sorts the sorts of things associated with modern ideas of a perfect being.

God's character always reflects the character of humanity. Throughout Genesis, God repeatedly tries to show us mercy, only for us to throw it back in His face again and again. In Israel, God attempts to create a nation of priests, but we learn that even if we execute people for thought crimes, we can't force perfection on people from the outside. That lesson learned, God sends us Jesus Christ, to change our hearts, and thus perfect us from the inside out. Even then, people like Greatest I am continue to reject their Father's envoys, likely for unfortunate psychological reasons.

I don't know about that. I haven't read the Old Testament for several years.  My recollection is that the things God cared most about was being shown respect and being feared and being worshipped.

I know this is disputed by some, but the continued bad acts of the Pharaoh with Joseph is literally described in the Bible that the Pharaoh had finally given in, but that "God hardened his (The Pharaoh's) heart" just so that God could keep punishing the Pharaoh and the Egyptians.

To me it was as if God was thinking "You haven't seen anything yet.  I'm want to really make you be afraid of me."

Even worse is God's treatment of Job.  Not only does God make Job suffers simply because Satan made a bet with him, but when Job asks outright 'why is this being done to me' God tells him an outight lie.

From my recollection, I just don't see a God trying to be merciful and teach mercy, I see a complete jerk.

Maybe my recollection is poor, but I think you are rationalizing, just as I think those who say 'well Pharaoh really hardened his own heart', are rationalizing.

[Greatest I am]

I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkin's hectoring and polemic style, but I find it hard to dispute much of anything here:  https://www.richarddawkins.net/2014/03/gods-psychological-profile/

The first time I read the Old Testament (up to Psalm 119, or whichever the really long psalm is) I was shocked at how 'bad' God was.  What I find most interesting is the claim that God is 'perfect.'  I don't recall any old Testament description of God as 'perfect' so I wonder what the definition of 'perfect' was at the time.  God 'himself' refers to 'himself' as both 'jealous' and 'vengeful' not normally the sorts the sorts of things associated with modern ideas of a perfect being.

God's character always reflects the character of humanity. Throughout Genesis, God repeatedly tries to show us mercy, only for us to throw it back in His face again and again. In Israel, God attempts to create a nation of priests, but we learn that even if we execute people for thought crimes, we can't force perfection on people from the outside. That lesson learned, God sends us Jesus Christ, to change our hearts, and thus perfect us from the inside out. Even then, people like Greatest I am continue to reject their Father's envoys, likely for unfortunate psychological reasons.

I don't know about that. I haven't read the Old Testament for several years.  My recollection is that the thing God cared most about was being shown respect and being feared and being worshipped.

I know this is disputed by some, but the continued bad acts of the Pharaoh with Joseph is literally described in the Bible that the Pharaoh had finally given in, but that "God hardened his (The Pharaoh's) heart" just so that God could keep punishing the Pharaoh and the Egyptians."

To me it was as if God was thinking "You haven't seen anything yet.  I'm want to really make you fear me."

Even worse is God's treatment of Job.  Not only does God make Job suffers simply because Satan made a bet with him, but when Job asks outright 'why is this being done to me' God tells him a complete lie.

From my recollection, I just don't see a God trying to be merciful and teach mercy, I see a complete jerk.

U C 20/20.

I have to wonder why Christians are so blind.

Regards
DL

[Ban my account ffs!]

I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkin's hectoring and polemic style, but I find it hard to dispute much of anything here:  https://www.richarddawkins.net/2014/03/gods-psychological-profile/

The first time I read the Old Testament (up to Psalm 119, or whichever the really long psalm is) I was shocked at how 'bad' God was.  What I find most interesting is the claim that God is 'perfect.'  I don't recall any old Testament description of God as 'perfect' so I wonder what the definition of 'perfect' was at the time.  God 'himself' refers to 'himself' as both 'jealous' and 'vengeful' not normally the sorts the sorts of things associated with modern ideas of a perfect being.

God's character always reflects the character of humanity. Throughout Genesis, God repeatedly tries to show us mercy, only for us to throw it back in His face again and again. In Israel, God attempts to create a nation of priests, but we learn that even if we execute people for thought crimes, we can't force perfection on people from the outside. That lesson learned, God sends us Jesus Christ, to change our hearts, and thus perfect us from the inside out. Even then, people like Greatest I am continue to reject their Father's envoys, likely for unfortunate psychological reasons.

I don't know about that. I haven't read the Old Testament for several years.  My recollection is that the thing God cared most about was being shown respect and being feared and being worshipped.

I know this is disputed by some, but the continued bad acts of the Pharaoh with Joseph is literally described in the Bible that the Pharaoh had finally given in, but that "God hardened his (The Pharaoh's) heart" just so that God could keep punishing the Pharaoh and the Egyptians."

To me it was as if God was thinking "You haven't seen anything yet.  I'm want to really make you fear me."

Even worse is God's treatment of Job.  Not only does God make Job suffers simply because Satan made a bet with him, but when Job asks outright 'why is this being done to me' God tells him a complete lie.

From my recollection, I just don't see a God trying to be merciful and teach mercy, I see a complete jerk.

U C 20/20.

I have to wonder why Christians are so blind.

Regards
DL

Most of them don't read the Bible.  They're cultural Christians.  They are convinced God is something very different than what scripture says. 

[Greatest I am]

I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkin's hectoring and polemic style, but I find it hard to dispute much of anything here:  https://www.richarddawkins.net/2014/03/gods-psychological-profile/

The first time I read the Old Testament (up to Psalm 119, or whichever the really long psalm is) I was shocked at how 'bad' God was.  What I find most interesting is the claim that God is 'perfect.'  I don't recall any old Testament description of God as 'perfect' so I wonder what the definition of 'perfect' was at the time.  God 'himself' refers to 'himself' as both 'jealous' and 'vengeful' not normally the sorts the sorts of things associated with modern ideas of a perfect being.

God's character always reflects the character of humanity. Throughout Genesis, God repeatedly tries to show us mercy, only for us to throw it back in His face again and again. In Israel, God attempts to create a nation of priests, but we learn that even if we execute people for thought crimes, we can't force perfection on people from the outside. That lesson learned, God sends us Jesus Christ, to change our hearts, and thus perfect us from the inside out. Even then, people like Greatest I am continue to reject their Father's envoys, likely for unfortunate psychological reasons.

I don't know about that. I haven't read the Old Testament for several years.  My recollection is that the thing God cared most about was being shown respect and being feared and being worshipped.

I know this is disputed by some, but the continued bad acts of the Pharaoh with Joseph is literally described in the Bible that the Pharaoh had finally given in, but that "God hardened his (The Pharaoh's) heart" just so that God could keep punishing the Pharaoh and the Egyptians."

To me it was as if God was thinking "You haven't seen anything yet.  I'm want to really make you fear me."

Even worse is God's treatment of Job.  Not only does God make Job suffers simply because Satan made a bet with him, but when Job asks outright 'why is this being done to me' God tells him a complete lie.

From my recollection, I just don't see a God trying to be merciful and teach mercy, I see a complete jerk.

U C 20/20.

I have to wonder why Christians are so blind.

Regards
DL

Most of them don't read the Bible.  They're cultural Christians.  They are convinced God is something very different than what scripture says. 

Both the scriptures and the way churches teach of god are supposed to be secondary to what we think of god. Both have many lies that they use.

I would say that a good 90% who claim to be Christians, do not practice their religions at all.

Given the laws in the bible, let's thank all the gods that Christians do not walk their religions laws.

Best to live with their hypocrisy than the bibles laws.

Regards
DL 

[Mopsus]

Maybe my recollection is poor

It is. You’re forgetting about how God could have demanded the life of Cain in retribution for murdering his brother, but instead He protected it. You’re forgetting about how God promised to never again destroy humanity in a global flood, in spite of our constant inclination towards evil. You’re forgetting about how God told Abraham that He would spare the city of Sodom (or any city) if it had just five righteous inhabitants. You’re forgetting about the Book of Jonah.

When you read the Bible, you probably made the mistake of reading it as a collection of disconnected events. It’s a story.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

That aside, it would take quite the fool to think god would condemn you then turn around and die for you.

Except the condemnation comes not from God but from ourselves.  The crucifixion was necessary not because God required it but because our stiff-necked nature required such an extravagant demonstration of God's love for us to believe in it.

So you are basically saying that Jesus is not our god and judge and we are our own judges.

Get the scriptures for this strange view as I do not think we judge as black and white as you are suggesting, while ignoring that man does not have the power to create hell.

We all create our own hells as no one can judge us more harshly than ourselves. That doesn't mean we always judge ourselves fairly.

The Bible is a collection of texts of humanity's search for the Divine. As with anything human, it is not inerrant. Analyzing it as such is a mistake both fundamentalists and critics make.

[136or142]

Maybe my recollection is poor

It is. You’re forgetting about how God could have demanded the life of Cain in retribution for murdering his brother, but instead He protected it. You’re forgetting about how God promised to never again destroy humanity in a global flood, in spite of our constant inclination towards evil. You’re forgetting about how God told Abraham that He would spare the city of Sodom (or any city) if it had just five righteous inhabitants. You’re forgetting about the Book of Jonah.

When you read the Bible, you probably made the mistake of reading it as a collection of disconnected events. It’s a story.

In reverse order,

1.Not at all, I thought I made clear that I was commenting on the Old Testament God from my reading of the Old Testament up to Psalm 119 (121?) We can each pick and choose the events in the Bible that highlight our arguments, but God's behaviour is consistent throughout.

2.If God is going to kill everybody, shouldn't He already known if there was a righteous person there or not?  Otherwise, it's just mass collective guilt.

3.Why is a 'just God' committing genocide with a flood in the first place? In addition to killing somebody by drowning being absolutely vicious, we have the issue in the prior point: there wasn't a single other person deserving to live other than Noah and his family?

This brings up a point I find interesting then that I don't often see discussed:  If God is perfect, how could he do so badly with humans?  A mediocre baseball player at least has a .250 hitting percentage. If out of the entire population on earth at the time, there was a single decent (or righteous) family for a 'perfect God' that's a pretty bad batting average.

Also, God just says he won't commit genocide again by flood, He doesn't say He won't commit genocide again.

4.Ultimately I guess it depends on your (through God) definition of 'evil.'  A lot of the Old Testament laws are pretty strange and prescribe disproportionate punishments, and of the 10 Commandments themselves, half deal with praising God.  I think a fair reading of the Old Testament suggests that when God refers to evil, what it means (in part) is 'they didn't praise me sufficiently.'