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June 19, 2019, 08:27:12 am
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  Ukrainian presidential election, 2019
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Poll
Question: Who will make it into the second round? (2 votes)
#1Petro Poroshenko (BPP)  
#2Yulia Tymoshenko (BA)  
#3Anatoliy Hrytsenko (GP)  
#4Yuri Boyko (OB)  
#5Vladimir Zelenski (SN)  
#6Svyatoslav Vakarchuk (IND)  
#7Oleg Lyashko (RP)  
#8Vadim Rabynovych (ZZ)  
#9Andrii Sadovyi (SP)  
#10Evgeny Murayev (IND)  
#11Other (please specify)  
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 57

Calculate results by number of options selected
Author Topic: Ukrainian presidential election, 2019  (Read 9792 times)
LoneStarDem
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« Reply #125 on: April 12, 2019, 05:29:47 am »

What did Poroshenko do to piss people off ?
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Hydera
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« Reply #126 on: April 12, 2019, 10:23:17 am »

What did Poroshenko do to piss people off ?


The economy wasn't good although thats the fault of Russia and the separtists, however on corruption he was lackluster and corruption was one of the things he could have done something on if he wanted.
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kelestian
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« Reply #127 on: April 13, 2019, 07:40:31 am »
« Edited: April 13, 2019, 01:50:49 pm by kelestian »

Another interesting fact: debates could be bad for Zelenskiy because... his Ukrainian language is bad! Usually he speaks Russian, only in some pre-scripted videos he spoke in Ukrainian. He said he has started Ukrainian about 2-3 years ago. Also his English is just terrible.

 
What did Poroshenko do to piss people off ?

Failed people's expectations. You know. only Kuchma of all Ukrainian presidents was re-elected (with major falsifications), so nothing strange here. People wanted better economic situation, raising of wages etc. They got tariff increasing. Honestly, i don't think Poroshenko could do anything big to improve economy. Demographics, geopolitics, local politics, history etc are too strong to radically change path of the country.

However, Poroshenko could do something against corruption. Unfortunately, he didn't. His closest allies are involved in corrupt schemes, but even his enemies were not prosecuted.

Third thing is ethnonationalism, which alienated eastern electorate.
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #128 on: April 13, 2019, 10:06:58 am »
« Edited: April 13, 2019, 11:46:05 am by smoltchanov »

What did Poroshenko do to piss people off ?


The economy wasn't good although thats the fault of Russia and the separtists, however on corruption he was lackluster and corruption was one of the things he could have done something on if he wanted.

It's (the state of Ukranian economy) NOT the fault of Russia generally (which wasn't obliged to support Poroshenko's regime, with it's many anti-Russia overtones, first of all). According to such logic one could say, that bad state of Venezuelan economy is a US fault..... IF a state of your economy is heavily dependent on good relations with some other country - it's rather natural at least to try to normalize these relations (as old Russian saying goes: "Don't spit in the well you are drinking from"). May be cynical, but - true. Corruption is another matter...
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Russian Bear
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« Reply #129 on: April 14, 2019, 01:00:47 pm »

Another interesting fact: debates could be bad for Zelenskiy because... his Ukrainian language is bad! Usually he speaks Russian, only in some pre-scripted videos he spoke in Ukrainian. He said he has started Ukrainian about 2-3 years ago.
He will speak Russian, won't he? I don't know if it is the bad thing for him. He already lost the die-hard anti-Russians...
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #130 on: April 15, 2019, 03:27:43 am »

Another interesting fact: debates could be bad for Zelenskiy because... his Ukrainian language is bad! Usually he speaks Russian, only in some pre-scripted videos he spoke in Ukrainian. He said he has started Ukrainian about 2-3 years ago.
He will speak Russian, won't he? I don't know if it is the bad thing for him. He already lost the die-hard anti-Russians...

Vast majority of die-hard anti-Russians in Ukraine speak Russian fluently. And i almost never heard Ukranian spoken in the eastern part of Ukraine - only on official ceremonies...
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Russian Bear
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« Reply #131 on: April 15, 2019, 02:07:36 pm »

From the poll I posted before >>>

Img




Also, if I understand it all correctly, it is not clear there will be a debate... Po & his aides say that Po (according to the Ukraine law?) come only if there is no other debates at the same time. And since there seems to be a debates on national TV at the same time, he will come there as he should due to Ukraine law...


Po said this yesterday in the stadium (I think) where he wanted to have debate with Ze who didn't come because Ze wants to have debate on 19... So... It is likely just the rhetoric... Hahaha, a sh**tshow in a sh**thole country...  as some would put it.
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Russian Bear
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« Reply #132 on: April 16, 2019, 08:19:21 am »

New poll


(UKR) https://www.kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=851&page=1

90% Donbass (among those who have decided) would vote for Ze.


They asked as well about next parliamentary election.

Ze 26%
Bo 16% (a "pro-Russian" party, gained)
Po 14%
Ti 12% (collapsed?)


Overall "pro-Russian" parties get about 20%.
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kelestian
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« Reply #133 on: April 19, 2019, 03:04:39 am »

https://www.twitch.tv/mortis_gamer Debates with english translation, will start at 19-00 (GMT+3)

Also will be broadcasted on many ukrainian and russian tv-channels.
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АndriуValeriovich
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« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2019, 08:14:12 am »

New poll shows:
Zelensky 54%
Poroshenko 44%
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #135 on: April 19, 2019, 08:20:50 am »

New poll shows:
Zelensky 54%
Poroshenko 44%

Much closer, then previous. Why such change?
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kelestian
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« Reply #136 on: April 19, 2019, 08:55:11 am »

not a very credible pollster (Dragomanov centre), numbers very different from most respected firms (KIIS, Rating). I don't think we should pay much attention to this (and only pro-Poroshenko media are paying it now)

New poll shows:
Zelensky 54%
Poroshenko 44%

Much closer, then previous. Why such change?

links for debates in Ukrainian/Russian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9oEAXL1qE8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei1_hzGpBQc
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Russian Bear
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« Reply #137 on: April 19, 2019, 11:30:26 am »
« Edited: April 19, 2019, 11:48:58 am by Russian Bear »

The debates in English by RT's Ruptly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGUuAMi2jls



Ze sometimes changes to Russian language.


Also, the debates are somewhat similar to American one.
- Po says that he is "most qualified candidate" (among other to meet Putin) while Ze is Putin's and oligarchs' puppet,
- while Ze says that Po is crooked and if Ze is the president Po might be locked up  Pacman (Ze said literally that Po might end up "seeing" a prosecutor).

A lot of a sh**t throwing...
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kelestian
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« Reply #138 on: April 19, 2019, 12:06:22 pm »

Very good performance from Zelenskiy. Average from Poroshenko
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #139 on: April 19, 2019, 12:11:12 pm »

Ze sometimes changes to Russian language.

I'm not a linguist, but for those who know both languages:

Is Ukrainian quite different to Russian or just some estranged dialect of Russian, similar to Dutch relative to Standard/High-German or Austrian-German relative to Standard/High-German ?

It would come across as very odd to Austrian voters for example if some major politician with origins in Germany would debate on TV here, speaking High-German ... because it is so distinct to our German. And vice-versa it would be weird as well.
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #140 on: April 19, 2019, 12:14:24 pm »

Ze sometimes changes to Russian language.

I'm not a linguist, but for those who know both languages:

Is Ukrainian quite different to Russian or just some estranged dialect of Russian, similar to Dutch relative to Standard/High-German or Austrian-German relative to Standard/High-German ?

Not a linguist too, but i would answer "different, but not SO different"... I never studied Ukranian, but understand 80-90% of spoken words nevertheless....
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #141 on: April 19, 2019, 12:17:40 pm »
« Edited: April 19, 2019, 12:24:07 pm by Tender Branson »

Ze sometimes changes to Russian language.

I'm not a linguist, but for those who know both languages:

Is Ukrainian quite different to Russian or just some estranged dialect of Russian, similar to Dutch relative to Standard/High-German or Austrian-German relative to Standard/High-German ?

Not a linguist too, but i would answer "different, but not SO different"... I never studied Ukranian, but understand 80-90% of spoken words nevertheless....

OK, so it is probably the same as Swiss German relative to Austrian German, but not relative to Standard/High-German:

While Austrians understand ca. 80-90% of what the Swiss say, the Northern Germans only understand some 20-30% of what the Swiss say when they talk plain Schwitzerdütsch ... (the Swiss notoriously have an inferiority complex when talking Swiss-German, because they think nobody understands them in Austria or Germany, which is absolutely not the case for Austrians ... but for North Germans, so they almost always try to speak High-German with us and the Germans. This results in the Swiss speaking High-German really well, better than Austrians, yet Austrians simply don't give a sh*t if North Germans understand us or not. Austrians think if someone from Hamburg wants to understand us, this person should simply learn Austrian German ... Tongue)
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Russian Bear
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« Reply #142 on: April 19, 2019, 01:46:43 pm »

Very good performance from Zelenskiy. Average from Poroshenko

I'd say awful from Poroshenko given that he trailing by like 30-40% in polls. Average from Ze, but he didn't need anything special.


Ze sometimes changes to Russian language.

I'm not a linguist, but for those who know both languages:

Is Ukrainian quite different to Russian or just some estranged dialect of Russian, similar to Dutch relative to Standard/High-German or Austrian-German relative to Standard/High-German ?

It would come across as very odd to Austrian voters for example if some major politician with origins in Germany would debate on TV here, speaking High-German ... because it is so distinct to our German. And vice-versa it would be weird as well.
I don't know. I'd say they are not just dialects, but they are quite similar. Probably more similar than Spanish/Portuguese etc.

The thing is that neither Po or Ze are native Ukrainian speakers (though Poroshenko's has always been way better and significantly improved his skills) so it's much easier (to me) to understand them than native speakers.
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Third Party
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« Reply #143 on: April 19, 2019, 09:49:23 pm »

What is most interesting is the ethnic dynamics at play here. Zelensky (who is Jewish) is a creature of Igor Kolomoyskyi (a very powerful, super-rich oligarch, who also happens to be Jewish). Meanwhile, all the Bandera* loving Neo-Nazi groups are supporting Poroshenko. It will be very interesting to see how they respond to having an openly Jewish leader. Its easy to imagine there being another "Maidan"...

* Note for Westerners, Stepan Bandera was a brutal Ukrainian nationalist who collaborated with the Nazi occupation during WW2. He and his followers killed up to one million people, including tens of thousands of Jews. Bandera is beloved by all the extreme Ukrainian nationalist groups (Pravy Sektor, Svoboda, C14 etc) and Poroshenko (as well as Yushchenko back in the 2000s) pander to Bandera's fanatical followers. Even Zelensky will probably try pandering to them, if he is allowed to win (especially considering that Kolomoyskyi himself has funded Bandera-loving groups in the past).
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kelestian
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« Reply #144 on: April 20, 2019, 03:46:54 am »
« Edited: April 20, 2019, 05:05:05 am by kelestian »

What is most interesting is the ethnic dynamics at play here. Zelensky (who is Jewish) is a creature of Igor Kolomoyskyi (a very powerful, super-rich oligarch, who also happens to be Jewish). Meanwhile, all the Bandera* loving Neo-Nazi groups are supporting Poroshenko. It will be very interesting to see how they respond to having an openly Jewish leader. Its easy to imagine there being another "Maidan"...

* Note for Westerners, Stepan Bandera was a brutal Ukrainian nationalist who collaborated with the Nazi occupation during WW2. He and his followers killed up to one million people, including tens of thousands of Jews. Bandera is beloved by all the extreme Ukrainian nationalist groups (Pravy Sektor, Svoboda, C14 etc) and Poroshenko (as well as Yushchenko back in the 2000s) pander to Bandera's fanatical followers. Even Zelensky will probably try pandering to them, if he is allowed to win (especially considering that Kolomoyskyi himself has funded Bandera-loving groups in the past).


From what i see, noone talks about Zelenskiy jewish heritage. However rightwingers are infuriate by the fact that he is primarily Russian-speaking.


Some observations about Ukrainian Far-right: they are not about antisemitism at all. Yes, those groups glorified many antisemitic figures from the past (from Bandera to Corneliu Zelea Codreanu), but don't focused on antisemitic views of those figures. Main enemies of far-right groups are: migrants (but there aren't a lot of them in Ukraine), romani people, ethnic minorities like Russian and Hungarian, USSR heritage. Also there are special far-right groups (like Tradition and Order) which are focused on anti-LGBT/anti-feminism activities.
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urutzizu
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« Reply #145 on: April 20, 2019, 07:27:16 am »

Interestingly some Ukrainian Nationalists actually use the relatively good position many jews in ukraine have as an argument to why their country could not be racist/discriminatory towards minorities such as russians/hungarians.
Their Argument goes like this: “Well how can you claim that minorities are discriminated against in ukraine, if even our Prime Minister is a jew?”
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Karpatsky
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« Reply #146 on: April 20, 2019, 11:35:42 am »

What is most interesting is the ethnic dynamics at play here. Zelensky (who is Jewish) is a creature of Igor Kolomoyskyi (a very powerful, super-rich oligarch, who also happens to be Jewish). Meanwhile, all the Bandera* loving Neo-Nazi groups are supporting Poroshenko. It will be very interesting to see how they respond to having an openly Jewish leader. Its easy to imagine there being another "Maidan"...

* Note for Westerners, Stepan Bandera was a brutal Ukrainian nationalist who collaborated with the Nazi occupation during WW2. He and his followers killed up to one million people, including tens of thousands of Jews. Bandera is beloved by all the extreme Ukrainian nationalist groups (Pravy Sektor, Svoboda, C14 etc) and Poroshenko (as well as Yushchenko back in the 2000s) pander to Bandera's fanatical followers. Even Zelensky will probably try pandering to them, if he is allowed to win (especially considering that Kolomoyskyi himself has funded Bandera-loving groups in the past).

For the reference of those of us living outside of an RT media bubble, the chance of the loud but miniscule amount of actual Ukrainian Neo-Nazis causing a 'third Maidan' is roughly comparable to the chance of the American Antifa taking the White House by storm.
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #147 on: April 20, 2019, 11:48:11 am »

What is most interesting is the ethnic dynamics at play here. Zelensky (who is Jewish) is a creature of Igor Kolomoyskyi (a very powerful, super-rich oligarch, who also happens to be Jewish). Meanwhile, all the Bandera* loving Neo-Nazi groups are supporting Poroshenko. It will be very interesting to see how they respond to having an openly Jewish leader. Its easy to imagine there being another "Maidan"...

* Note for Westerners, Stepan Bandera was a brutal Ukrainian nationalist who collaborated with the Nazi occupation during WW2. He and his followers killed up to one million people, including tens of thousands of Jews. Bandera is beloved by all the extreme Ukrainian nationalist groups (Pravy Sektor, Svoboda, C14 etc) and Poroshenko (as well as Yushchenko back in the 2000s) pander to Bandera's fanatical followers. Even Zelensky will probably try pandering to them, if he is allowed to win (especially considering that Kolomoyskyi himself has funded Bandera-loving groups in the past).

For the reference of those of us living outside of an RT media bubble, the chance of the loud but miniscule amount of actual Ukrainian Neo-Nazis causing a 'third Maidan' is roughly comparable to the chance of the American Antifa taking the White House by storm.

Well, even most Russians (like me) live "outside of an RT media bubble,"....)))
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #148 on: April 21, 2019, 03:44:07 am »

Until 11am local time, turnout is a bit higher than in Round 1:

17.1% vs. 16.7%

That is based on 69/199 districts that have submitted their turnout data so far.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #149 on: April 21, 2019, 03:51:26 am »

Also, turnout is ca. 2x as high in the south-eastern Zelenski strongholds vs. the western Poroschenko strongholds.
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