muon2's Diplomacy game

[GeorgiaModerate]

It's been a while since I've played, but I'll give it a shot.  Count me in.

[GeorgiaModerate]

can we claim nations ahead of time? because if so, I'd like to reserve the United States.
(consider this a signing in)

Diplomacy is a Europe based game, and the United States is not playable in it.

He plans to jump in around 1917.

[GeorgiaModerate]

This is an impropmtu poll of the players in light of BKs abdication from Russia. I can continue with the turn and all units will hold. Alternatively I can hold off the move for a week and try to find a replacement. Unless everyone agrees to the second choice moves go through as scheduled.

Of course there is another possibility: someone reads this or finds someone in the next few hours to take over Russia. If they post here by the deadline and pm me moves for Russia, I'll count it as an early Russian revolution.

I'm OK with waiting for a replacement.  An abandonment right off the bat would throw off the game IMO.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I'm fine with pausing the game until a permanent Russia is found.

If others prefer a biweekly move schedule I'm OK with it, although the weekly schedule isn't a problem for me.  I suggest putting retreats and adjustments on a shorter schedule, though.  Even a week seems like a lot for those; two weeks is overkill.

[GeorgiaModerate]

My plan with a Friday deadline was to handle retreats and adjustments over the weekend so that the game was set by 0 hour Monday. I have no problem stretching the regular move cycle, it's just my experience that it becomes more likely that players will find a need to leave as the game gets longer. My preference is to keep with a week, but stretch individual moves when there is enough advance notice, such as around holidays. But if everyone wants to extend, then I will.

That seems very reasonable for retreats and adjustments.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I'm fine with the delay if there's no replacement before then.  It's better to have 7 active players.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I'm sorry to lose England again. In Spring 1901 Germany submitted an illegal move and Ber had to hold. Same thing with England this turn. It's not normal play, but I can notify the player of any illegal moves so that the moves can be amended. Is that what players want?

I support that.  It's the same thing the email Diplomacy judges do if a player submits an invalid order.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I'll keep monitoring the vote on illegal move notification going forward.

Also, as it stands there is no England for the move due tonight. As before if someone wants to step in to play the turn they are welcome as long as it is before 11:59 pm CDT.

What it's due tonight?

Yep, movement orders are due on the first Friday of every week.

[GeorgiaModerate]

We've now got two powers in CD and it's only 1903.  This is disappointing.

[GeorgiaModerate]

In general, I support any steps by the game master to help out the players and try to maintain a full complement of active participants.  Perhaps this isn't really in the cutthroat spirit of Diplomacy, but I think it would make for a more satisfying and fun game for all concerned.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Retreat: Bud-Gal

[GeorgiaModerate]

Austria's essentially dead.  An army in Bohemia can't hope to survive, while a Free Austria Navy in Tunisia can't do anything while it might survive another year or two, if only because of the incompetence of the Ottoman Navy in getting out of its own way so that it could build that third unit in Constantinople.  (Note, the Admirals in this game have generally been incompetent on all sides, not just the Ottoman Admirals.)

Italy would have been better off doing a full retreat in the West, at least temporarily. Had it done Lyo->tys, Italy wouldn't be disbanding a unit and France would be building one less because France wouldn't have captured Spain.

If y'all are allowing joint victories, a Franco-Ottoman one is now available if the two don't want to see who wins.

The responsible admirals have been recalled to Constantinople for consultation.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Spring 1906

Turkey: Supply centers were gained. Units that may be built: 3 (only 2 unoccupied centers are available).

Sorry, our construction yards are on summer holiday.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Well I had a good run

Italy is hard enough to play under normal circumstances.  With no England to oppose France and no Russia to oppose Turkey, you were pretty much doomed from the start.

[GeorgiaModerate]

At this point, it's fairly clear that the Turks have won, the only question is if a Franco-German alliance can force the Porte to accept a draw.

The Germans have no ability to threaten Sevastapol and their prospects of advancing into the former Austrian territories look bleak.  The Porte might be able to take Moscow in 1908, but likely only if the Reich fails to reinforce Moscow because it gets too involved in the West.

The French also have a lack of ability to act against the Turks right now. It's doubtful that the Republic of France can hold on to Venice once the Turks get a fleet into the Adriatic with the only question being does that happen in 1907 or 1908? Too much effort in Britain, or even worse, fighting with Germany, makes reinforcing the Republic's forces in the western Mediterranean in time impossible, but Britain has supply centers a Franco-German alliance will need to be able to halt the Porte.

The biggest weakness a Franco-German alliance has are those two German navies. If they're needed in the Baltic for defense, the Porte will have taken at least Moscow. If the French were to build a second northern fleet that could then grind the German fleet to pieces to be replaced by armies before heading south themselves to the Mediterranean, that too would actually make the situation worse in the short term by tying up so much force away from the Turkish fronts, that they might win outright before the freed up resources could get south.

Oddly enough, what a Franco-German alliance needs most is either an active British or an active Austrian player, at least in the short run.  A British player could grind away the German fleets so they could be rebuilt as armies without tying up French navies and make it possible for the one French army already landed to take Britain without further reinforcements, tho it wouldn't be able to finish until Fall 1909. (Obviously France would need to let Germany get back Munich at minimum.)  An active Austrian player cooperating with the French would be able to hold Tunis and support French navies in the water. (In the turn just past, an Austria cooperating with the French would have been able to get a French fleet into WES and still seen the elimination of the Italians.)

Well, no.  One of the most important skills in Diplomacy is the ability to count to 18.  Unless F&G are completely brain-dead (which they have demonstrated not to be the case), the absolute max that Turkey can take in this position is Turkey (3) + Austria (3) + Balkans (4) + Italy (3) + Tunis (1) + Russia except StP (3) for a total of 17.   The 18th center just isn't there; France can block me from further gains in the Med, Stp can't be taken by land from the south as long as it has minimal support, and FG can easily defend the German centers.  The game will be an FGT draw, and I'll be happy to call it a day as soon as Austria is eliminated.  Or if Austria is now considered in CD, let's call it now and think about starting a new game with 7 active players this time. 

Muon2: Can we call a vote for an FGT draw now?  If so, I propose it and vote yes.

[GeorgiaModerate]

My thoughts:

I really want to start with 7 players or not at all.

If Muon2 is willing to precheck the orders for validity, that's very helpful. 

[GeorgiaModerate]

6.) Really looking forward to a new game and hopefully am not regretting going for a complete conquest option against Turkey.   

Don't regret it.  It almost certainly wasn't going anywhere.   

a) It's almost impossible to dig a strong Turkey (or Austria if they've eliminated Turkey) out of the southeastern corner.  In fact, I believe there's an impregnable 10- or 11-center position in the southeast in which I could have circled the wagons, although I'd have to search for the details; it's been a long time.

b) Even if (a) is wrong, FG would obviously have to work together closely to have any chance at knocking out Turkey from that point.  But it's really unlikely there would be a stable 17-17 draw position between you two, so I don't see you having a stable alliance that lasted long enough.  In particular:

c) I was careful to point out to Cath that he was a LOT more vulnerable to a stab from you, than you were from him.

d) In the unlikely event that you guys succeeded in pressing the issue and started whittling me down, I would have started throwing centers to one of you to force the other to back off.  Probably to Germany, since I figured you were the main instigator. But it would depend on the circumstances at the time.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I'll play again provided we have seven committed players.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Update: So I pinged Muon2 a few days back, and he has been busy with some family activities over the past few weeks, hence his lack of activity recently (We all need a family-work-Atlas balance sometimes!!!).

Since I guess I was the "ringleader" of trying to restart a new game, I guess it seemed easier to reach out to one person rather than the inevitable back on forth responses on the game thread.

1.) Muon2 reaffirmed his interest in being the "Judge" (Which I gather is the preferred term) of a new game!!!! THANKS MUON2   

2.) His biggest challenge is finding where to host the maps in light of Atlas new policies regarding posting images within the gallery

3.) He asked if there were any particular house rules that we would consider beneficial.

So, on that note there were a few posts on this thread from players of the previous game about potential items to consider as part of a new game.

     A.)  Although the 5.0 rules require the "Judge" to interpret illegal orders accordingly, the question is do we want a house rule that requires the Judge to notify a player of an illegal move and gives them a brief window to correct (3-6 Hrs was thrown out as an option by Muon2) hence minimizing disruption of training new/rusty players, but also allowing a 2nd chance for players to correct and make the game more accessible to new players.

    B.) It seems pretty clear that the consensus is that at minimum we would like (7) committed players, plus a few backups in reserve possible to minimize some of the items we saw in the last game that disrupted game play when players unexpectedly dropped out. I'm assuming this is still where y'all are at?

   C.) Any special House Rule changes that players would like to see before we move forward with the lotto for spots, since it seems like based upon posts here, it looks like we have (7) committed and potentially a few backups already lined up?

First hit for Diplomacy house rules on Google is https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/594388/diplomacy-house-rules which seems like a decent starting point.  Regarding having the judge check players' orders (which I agree would be very helpful for new players), we could modify this section:

3. Orders: Any clear orders will be followed; the precise syntax is not important. However, the GM will not raise any issues when the orders are submitted, unless the player asks for the orders to be checked. It is recommended that orders use the full province name or the abbreviations as given on the maps (though the abbreviations listed in the Rules PDF are also OK). The GM for a game may determine how orders may be submitted to them.

If muon2 is willing, the default practice could be for him to check all orders, notify the player of any illegal ones, and give them a short time to correct them, as you suggested.

[GeorgiaModerate]

There is a new issue that has arisen. The copyright issue has resulted in the closure of the Atlas Gallery, which is where I posted game maps. There have been even more restrictions required by Dave as he resolves the effects of the lawsuit. I'd like to see where image posting lands so that the game would have a clear location for the players to view the board with each turn.

If I can resolve this, I'd be happy to Judge another game.

Perhaps consider hosting the game as a private game on the Diplomatic Pouch's judge?  It has both an email and web UI.  http://uk.diplom.org/