Of Caliphs and Kings

[DKrol]

I know excitingly little about this time but would love to take Zaragoza!

Welcome!

With the roster now full, we will likely be able to start playing either tomorrow or Thursday.

So just to be clear, the turn hasn't started yet, right?

No, I am finishing up the player crises and will be posting them, hopefully, in an hour or so.

[DKrol]

The turn is now open. Let's try to have this turn close one week from today, on October 18.

[DKrol]

Please make sure you're including me in on your messages.

[windjammer]

Please make sure you're including me in on your messages.

i haven't sent one yet. Still doing search on this period.

[DKrol]

I wanted the turn to end tonight but, since I've gotten orders from only one player, I guess I'll keep it open through the weekend.

[DKrol]

Considering that I've only receive two orders, and only a handful of PM communications, I'm going to presume that there isn't interest in this game.

[Wikipedia delenda est]

Considering that I've only receive two orders, and only a handful of PM communications, I'm going to presume that there isn't interest in this game.

I can't speak for the other players, but to be honest that is true for me. I just don't know or care enough about the time period to be fully interested. As someone whose main area of interest is early modern history, I'd prefer if you were to make Lumine's "Dynasties and Empires" idea into a game, as you offered to do back in June:

As for myself I'm fully occupied with Forward (2012 Election Game) and The Death of Kings (ASOIAF-based game), but I would like to reserve a concept for an historical game to host at some point, although I have no idea when.

Provisional Title: "Dynasties and Empires"

Context: A game set in 1519, right at the onset of the Protestant Reformation, the Spanish Conquest of the Americas, the supremacy of the Ottoman Empire, the conflict between the young monarchs Henry VIII of England, Charles I of Spain and Francis I of France, and an election for Holy Roman Emperor which might decide the future of the Empire.

Among the playable characters one would find famous monarchs such as Henry VIII, Charles V, Francis I, Manuel I (Portugal) and Selim I, as well as other relevant characters such as the beleaugered Pope Leo X, James V of Scotland, the infortunate Louis II of Hungary and Bohemia, the Republic of Venice, the conflicting King of Denmark and the Swedish Regent and so on.

And, given the richness of the moment, the wide cast would also allow interaction with characters such as Cardinal Wolsey, Martin Luther, Moctezuma and the conquistadors, Richard de la Pole (last of the Yorkist claimants), Catherine of Aragon, the explorer Magellan, and so on. The game would most likely feature turns of one year, so we can advance into a much different world.

I was bored the other day, so I also took the time to make a map for future use (with the undiscovered areas hidden, as players will have to be both skilled and lucky to discover much of the New World):

I really like this idea and will put it in my pocket, with Lumine's permission, for when the Encore of Europe reaches its natural conclusion.

[Garlan Gunter]

I find the unusual setting quite inspiring myself and would be really sad to see this fade - though I can't deny 'Dynasties and Empires' is tempting as well.

[Lumine]

I do think these games benefit from a more known time period - my Roman Republic games suffered from that -, and while much depends on the player base a more familiar or engaging setting can make a drastic difference.

I wouldn't want to sound arrogant in any way, but truth be told I do consider Dynasties and Empires to be my next project and game and have already done extensive research on it. I'd like to keep that concept in reserve if that's okay.

[DKrol]

I do think these games benefit from a more known time period - my Roman Republic games suffered from that -, and while much depends on the player base a more familiar or engaging setting can make a drastic difference.

I wouldn't want to sound arrogant in any way, but truth be told I do consider Dynasties and Empires to be my next project and game and have already done extensive research on it. I'd like to keep that concept in reserve if that's okay.

I would never want to step on Lumine's toes. Dynasties and Empires is, without a doubt, his domain.

I chose this time period because it is one that I have a bit of expertise in and that I'm taking a course in at the moment. I see a lot of opportunity for changing the course of history in this volitile period but, if there isn't support for the game, there isn't support for the game.

[windjammer]

I do think these games benefit from a more known time period - my Roman Republic games suffered from that -, and while much depends on the player base a more familiar or engaging setting can make a drastic difference.

I wouldn't want to sound arrogant in any way, but truth be told I do consider Dynasties and Empires to be my next project and game and have already done extensive research on it. I'd like to keep that concept in reserve if that's okay.

I would never want to step on Lumine's toes. Dynasties and Empires is, without a doubt, his domain.

I chose this time period because it is one that I have a bit of expertise in and that I'm taking a course in at the moment. I see a lot of opportunity for changing the course of history in this volitile period but, if there isn't support for the game, there isn't support for the game.

Honestly, I still plan in the future to host a WW1 period game as I'm quite knowledgeable on the period and that I believe it is a very underrated period.

But have you ever thought of running a pre WW2 game like in 1933 or 1929? I think that would easily interest a lot of people.

[Garlan Gunter]

I do think these games benefit from a more known time period - my Roman Republic games suffered from that -, and while much depends on the player base a more familiar or engaging setting can make a drastic difference.

Sooo loved the last Roman game!

[DKrol]

Is there interest in a pre-World War II game? The only problem I see is that someone would have to play the anti-semitism of the Third Reich.

[windjammer]

Is there interest in a pre-World War II game? The only problem I see is that someone would have to play the anti-semitism of the Third Reich.

Well,
Personally I would be interested.

We can still forbide the opening of the gas chambers if necessary

[Dereich]

Is there interest in a pre-World War II game? The only problem I see is that someone would have to play the anti-semitism of the Third Reich.

Biggest problem I see with a WWII game is keeping hindsight out of things. French and British players, for example, would either have to be railroaded into appeasement or would inevitably take aggressive but highly unpopular action against a Germany who would flat out be unable to resist militarily. Keeping the game from ending early would require the GM to walk a difficult tightrope.

On a side note, how would a game for that era deal with how the French political system of the time changed governments on average every 10 months? Have someone play “France” and not a politician?  Just ignore it?

[Wikipedia delenda est]

My view is that if enough players send in their orders, then this game should continue. However, if most players still haven't sent in their orders, then we should try something else. The pre-World War II game sounds like it could be fun. Also, to Lumine, do you have any idea as to when you plan on hosting "Dynasties and Empires"?

[windjammer]

Is there interest in a pre-World War II game? The only problem I see is that someone would have to play the anti-semitism of the Third Reich.

Biggest problem I see with a WWII game is keeping hindsight out of things. French and British players, for example, would either have to be railroaded into appeasement or would inevitably take aggressive but highly unpopular action against a Germany who would flat out be unable to resist militarily. Keeping the game from ending early would require the GM to walk a difficult tightrope.

On a side note, how would a game for that era deal with how the French political system of the time changed governments on average every 10 months? Have someone play “France” and not a politician?  Just ignore it?

Regarding France, we can do what Lumine did in the first balance of power game (2014): ignore this instability issue, after all France was dominated by the Radical Party anyway.

Regarding taking down Hitler, I don't think even if they wanted this that wouldn't have been possible. Remember they were fully pacifist, I doubt the assembly in both the UK and France would have declared war.

Finally, if Stalin and Hitler are too controversial, we can replace them with some others: Gregor Strasser, von Papen, von Schleicher, Trotsky,...

[Lumine]

My view is that if enough players send in their orders, then this game should continue. However, if most players still haven't sent in their orders, then we should try something else. The pre-World War II game sounds like it could be fun. Also, to Lumine, do you have any idea as to when you plan on hosting "Dynasties and Empires"?

Well, research is virtually finished and the map drawing is too (world map that is, haven't found a decent Europe map to edit in Paint), so I suppose the game is mostly prepared. I think I'll host it after Dkrol's game (the coming one, I mean) is over and if there isn't a sense of saturation or a need for players to rest after that.

[windjammer]

My view is that if enough players send in their orders, then this game should continue. However, if most players still haven't sent in their orders, then we should try something else. The pre-World War II game sounds like it could be fun. Also, to Lumine, do you have any idea as to when you plan on hosting "Dynasties and Empires"?

Well, research is virtually finished and the map drawing is too (world map that is, haven't found a decent Europe map to edit in Paint), so I suppose the game is mostly prepared. I think I'll host it after Dkrol's game (the coming one, I mean) is over and if there isn't a sense of saturation or a need for players to rest after that.

Dkrol's game has basically ended as only two players sent their orders.

[Lumine]

My view is that if enough players send in their orders, then this game should continue. However, if most players still haven't sent in their orders, then we should try something else. The pre-World War II game sounds like it could be fun. Also, to Lumine, do you have any idea as to when you plan on hosting "Dynasties and Empires"?

Well, research is virtually finished and the map drawing is too (world map that is, haven't found a decent Europe map to edit in Paint), so I suppose the game is mostly prepared. I think I'll host it after Dkrol's game (the coming one, I mean) is over and if there isn't a sense of saturation or a need for players to rest after that.

Dkrol's game has basically ended as only two players sent their orders.

Well, I took his Pre-War suggestion to mean he would host such a game.

[Wikipedia delenda est]

Another interesting idea could be a Late Medieval/100 Years' War game. That era is significantly more known than Charlemagne's era, so it could prove to be an engaging game.