🇩🇪 German elections (federal & EU level)

[Zinneke]

How is Schulz not woke?

Have you ever seen him on TV?

Nope

He has an image of being boring and technocratic. If you've been following the Spitenkandidaten process, imagine a reverse Ska Keller.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

How is Schulz not woke?

Have you ever seen him on TV?

Nope

He has an image of being boring and technocratic.

Plus he is a reformed alcoholic - and you can easily tell by just looking at and listening to him.
Plus he has a very distinct speech impediment (the same as Nahles, btw) that simply makes him seem imbecile.

[Zinneke]

How is Schulz not woke?

Have you ever seen him on TV?

Nope

He has an image of being boring and technocratic.

Plus he is a reformed alcoholic - and you can easily tell by just looking at and listening to him.
Plus he has a very distinct speech impediment (the same as Nahles, btw) that simply makes him seem imbecile.

Schulz comes accross as an imbecile when he speaks on the same scale as Nahles?! He always seemed quite rough spoken but I can't detect it. Is it the NRW mannerisms? If that's the case Saxons and people from Baden have more serious speech impediments

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Schulz comes accross as an imbecile when he speaks on the same scale as Nahles?! He always seemed quite rough spoken but I can't detect it. Is it the NRW mannerisms? If that's the case Saxons and people from Baden have more serious speech impediments

No, they can't simply pronounce the sch properly, pronouncing it like ch instead. It doesn't go down well with the public when you can't even pronounce your own name correctly. Especially satirist and PARTEI politician Martin Sonneborn, MEP, regularly makes fum of Chulz's speech problem. Google "Martin Chulz" and you'll get about 6,000 results.

[pilskonzept]

Let's be real: the people who make fun of Schulz because of his accent are not likely to vote SPD (anymore).

[Zinneke]

Martin Sonneborn as potential kingmaker. What a time to be alive.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Let's be real: the people who make fun of Schulz because of his accent are not likely to vote SPD (anymore).

You mean Sonneborn is not going to vote for Präsident Chulz anymore?

[Lechasseur]

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-coalition-majority-of-germans-favor-snap-election-survey/?fbclid=IwAR2PQFbYnx28ei0V8urxz69IZjYuL1aF5bIHxl26WCVan6U5jOQJZQgALME

Over half of all Germans want an end of the GroKo and new elections, according to the poll cited in this article.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Guys, when you post a graph, especially with a visible copyright note, provide proper attribution if there's one allowing the use, or write down the results.

I'm sorry for being a pain in the neck, but it's a policy.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

So, this is a picture I link from the Instagram account of the tax-funded state news! This oughta be allowed! 🤬

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

So, this is a picture I link from the Instagram account of the tax-funded state news! This oughta be allowed! 🤬

I doubt that "from the tax-funded state news" automatically circumveits the copyright issue, so I'll do some consultation just to be sure.

[mileslunn]

Could the Greens replace SPD as main party of left.  In many ways left today is a lot different than in the past.  In the past was mostly blue collar workers but much of that has swung over to the right while present day left is more your younger woke urban types so in many ways Greens seem better suited to appeal to today's left wingers than SPD.  In past income, religion, and job were big determinants of voting patterns whereas now it seems more urban vs. rural (smaller urban areas and suburbs fall in between) and age and education while income matters less.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

From the same ZDF poll:

73% of the respondents say that AKK won't lead the CDU into a successful future.
71% say that she wouldn't be a capable chancellor.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Could the Greens replace SPD as main party of left.  In many ways left today is a lot different than in the past.  In the past was mostly blue collar workers but much of that has swung over to the right while present day left is more your younger woke urban types so in many ways Greens seem better suited to appeal to today's left wingers than SPD.  In past income, religion, and job were big determinants of voting patterns whereas now it seems more urban vs. rural (smaller urban areas and suburbs fall in between) and age and education while income matters less.

I think the most you can say is that the notion of the "people's party" has essentially become defunct and that the left are much more willing to shop around with their vote than they once were; which can just as easily swing back and curse the Greens than anything else. The Martin Scholz bump was very silly in retrospect, but it indicates that the SPD is not a toxic brand and could potentially be a viable force.

[urutzizu]

If this development is long term, then the Greens will probably do as Kretschmann has called for some time now, and drop the Doppelspitze, and instead have a single Spitzenkandidat lead the party.
There is only one chancellor and if they want to show that they are the main alternative to AKK, then they must also show who that alternative will be. Although greens voters are generally very issues-focused, personality still plays a huge role for many voters (Just ask the 70% of CDU voters who say Merkel is the main reason to vote for them), and you can hardly go into a Chancellor debate with two candidates.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

If this development is long term, then the Greens will probably do as Kretschmann has called for some time now, and drop the Doppelspitze, and instead have a single Spitzenkandidat lead the party.
There is only one chancellor and if they want to show that they are the main alternative to AKK, then they must also show who that alternative will be. Although greens voters are generally very issues-focused, personality still plays a huge role for many voters (Just ask the 70% of CDU voters who say Merkel is the main reason to vote for them), and you can hardly go into a Chancellor debate with two candidates.

It would be truly funny to see how the Greens lacerate each other when it comes to a chancellor election with a Doppelspitze.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Important announcement here, folks:

After some consultation, I have to conclude graphic such as posted by Hades a couple of posts above are a fair game. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm removing last infractions given to Hades and Tender due to unclear policy. Still, please be careful and try to provide a proper attribution as Hades did a couple of posts above.

[Leading Political Consultant Ma Anand Sheela]

So, this is a picture I link from the Instagram account of the tax-funded state news! This oughta be allowed! 🤬

snip

Do either of the polls have a breakdown of the others? 7-9% is quite high.

[mileslunn]

Could the Greens replace SPD as main party of left.  In many ways left today is a lot different than in the past.  In the past was mostly blue collar workers but much of that has swung over to the right while present day left is more your younger woke urban types so in many ways Greens seem better suited to appeal to today's left wingers than SPD.  In past income, religion, and job were big determinants of voting patterns whereas now it seems more urban vs. rural (smaller urban areas and suburbs fall in between) and age and education while income matters less.

I think the most you can say is that the notion of the "people's party" has essentially become defunct and that the left are much more willing to shop around with their vote than they once were; which can just as easily swing back and curse the Greens than anything else. The Martin Scholz bump was very silly in retrospect, but it indicates that the SPD is not a toxic brand and could potentially be a viable force.

Even on the right you see people shopping around, just look at UK now.  Still SPD seems more your traditional left wing party while Greens seem more your urban younger voter oriented but things could change.  True where I live in Canada left is split between many while right united but unlike in countries that use PR, right always loses when split so they are united here more due to common enemy than common ideology.  With PR that is less of an issue than it is with FTFP mind you on the right a lot of the right wing populist parties are gaining traditional blue collar social democrat voters while for Greens across Europe, I think many are younger voters who would not vote at all otherwise.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

After the SPD base has called for a primary in order to determine their party's chairman, the Werteunion ("value union"), an archconservative faction within the CDU/CSU, demands to have a primary for the nomination of the chancellery candidate.
Ralph Brinkhaus, who utterly surprisingly became CDU/CSU group leader in the Bundestag last fall, has forecast that AKK will become the CDU/CSU nominee, a prediction that some party members of his consider a bit premature.

[urutzizu]

Interesting debates going on in the SPD.
While most now agree it cant go on the way they have been going over the last years, the opponents of the current course seem to be splitting:
-The ones around Kühnert who want to leave the coalition and move to a full scale corbyn party and onto the territory of die linke see themselves vindicated
-However, and this is new, more voices including Sigmar Gabriel (Editorial in the Handelsblatt) and Thomas Oppermann, are calling in the Example of the Danish Social Democrats for a strong move to the right on immigration to win back the white working class for the SPD. Already a couple of days ago the SPD helped pass a strict deportation laws in the Bundestag. Funny considering Sarrazin was disgraced by the Party (and Gabriel) for calling for such a shift a couple of years ago.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

https://twitter.com/schmarmelaDE/status/1138765303003918336

[Walmart_shopper]

Interesting debates going on in the SPD.
While most now agree it cant go on the way they have been going over the last years, the opponents of the current course seem to be splitting:
-The ones around Kühnert who want to leave the coalition and move to a full scale corbyn party and onto the territory of die linke see themselves vindicated
-However, and this is new, more voices including Sigmar Gabriel (Editorial in the Handelsblatt) and Thomas Oppermann, are calling in the Example of the Danish Social Democrats for a strong move to the right on immigration to win back the white working class for the SPD. Already a couple of days ago the SPD helped pass a strict deportation laws in the Bundestag. Funny considering Sarrazin was disgraced by the Party (and Gabriel) for calling for such a shift a couple of years ago.

I find it odd that people think that the difference between those two approaches is so irreconcilable. Corbyn has kind of made his brand a fusion of populist nationalism and socialism, as evidenced by his emphasis on equality of outcome and his crypto-Brexiteerism. It's entirely possible, and given Germany's cultural setting probably politically favorable in at least the short term, to push left on many issues while moving in a populist direction on immigration, banking, or whatever.

In any case, the future of the German left is very clearly in whatever it is that the Green Party is doing, especially because they appeal so much to young voters. The populist socialism is great for working class towns in East Germany filled with a fading, older demographic. But I don't know how you make a political future out of that. That's Corbyn's problem in the UK. His party is coalescing around an internationalist liberalism even as he tries to embrace the white working class. That's just not a durable long-term movement.

[Former President tack50]

Interesting debates going on in the SPD.
While most now agree it cant go on the way they have been going over the last years, the opponents of the current course seem to be splitting:
-The ones around Kühnert who want to leave the coalition and move to a full scale corbyn party and onto the territory of die linke see themselves vindicated
-However, and this is new, more voices including Sigmar Gabriel (Editorial in the Handelsblatt) and Thomas Oppermann, are calling in the Example of the Danish Social Democrats for a strong move to the right on immigration to win back the white working class for the SPD. Already a couple of days ago the SPD helped pass a strict deportation laws in the Bundestag. Funny considering Sarrazin was disgraced by the Party (and Gabriel) for calling for such a shift a couple of years ago.

Wait, why are they splitting? Those 2 objectives are totally compatible with each other.

You could easily have the SPD moving to the left on economics like Corbyn and getting close to Die Linke and at the same time adopting a hard line on inmigration. The Danish Social Democrats should indeed be the role model for the SPD moving forward.

Whether voters will believe that change or not is another story of course. But those 2 goals are compatible with each other. If extremely successful, I could see the SPD sweeping former East Germany, getting Linke voters (because economics) and AfD voters (because inmigration)

[Omega21]

Opinion: @tack;walmartguy

The ones advocating the hard approach on immigration are interestingly on the right-neoliberal traditionally antipopulist wing of the SPD. The idea of soft-strasserism as you both outline was floated by Sahra Wagenknecht actually, something that was immediatly shot down by the rest of die Linke. In germany there is a super-woke idealistic fraction of the Left (Antifa, Pro Asyl...) that bullies anyone on the left into submission or out of the party (including wagenknecht, boris palmer, Sarrazin, that Mayor of Neukölln) that dares to float such ideas, with insults like "closet fascist", "querfront" etc.

Debate on immigration is silenced on the left because of them, anyone with other opinions is immideatly ostracized (Wagenknechts ideas were very moderate actually), which is why noone to the left of Gabriel dares to propose such things. It is the main reason why we have lost the east to the far-right.

So, why not let these fascists go in favour of appealing to, you know, the working class instead of professional whiny white justice warriors...?

I mean, by what you described, they are really close to being literal fascists.